NRL Expansion. Ideas and opinions.

[taipan]

oh sorry,
This is great news. To see the NRL have firm and definite plans for NRL expansion is a breath of fresh air and now we can all sit back and be confident that by 2023 the game will be in such a strong positon that this very carefully thought out and resourced expansion strategy will come to fruition.

Anything to keep you happy.Oh wait!!!

 

[MrE_Assassin]

Flavour of the day: Conferences

I've been going back through this forum and one thing I have noticed is a lot of people bring up the concept of "Conferences" and I want to bring the concept up again.

I think firstly we need to step away from the term "conference" though. This is an American sports ideology that works because the US is so big and has the geographical and population structure to support it. When you think of the NFL, it has two divisions with 4 conferences in each, which is inclusive of 32 team. This simply will NEVER happen in the NRL as Australia as a whole is too small. The NFL also has no real rival football code... we have at least 2, if not 3 if you include soccer (football for you European types).

My idea here is simple and please hear me out as it is just an idea and, like everyone else here, we all have an opinion on how the game should/could work and I'm doing this solely to promote another way of thinking and encourage constructive discussion. Why, instead of "conferences", can't we have "pools"?

Increase the comp to 18, 20 or 24 teams which would give pools of 4, 5 or 6 teams. At the end or start of each year the NRL hold a pool draw, much like the World Cup or European Championship. The teams are drawn from a collective of Sydney teams, QLD Teams, and those outside of those markets. Draw all the Sydney teams first across each of the pools, then the QLD teams and then the others. Each pool plays the other teams in their pool twice, with cross-pool games also scheduled (ie. one year pool 1 teams also play games against pool 3 teams, the following year it might be pool 1 v pool 2... if you catch my drift). This would then flesh out enough games for the rest of the season. Top 2 teams from each pool make the top eight for finals.

I understand that people will argue about some pools will be stronger than others or that rivalries will be missed out on, however you only need to look at the NFL or EPL that teams may not necessarily play each other every year but they still have that burning hatred for each other. I think this can also build a good marketing tool for when those teams do play each other again... A less is more approach can be applied to that. As for stronger or weaker pools, that is just sports and the luck of the draw. Some World Cup pools are easier or harder than others, but any team can win on their day.

The other point to note is that "Pools" don't have to be geographically attached like "Conferences" do. You can give each pool a letter, number or even name them after Immortals, Fathers/Pioneers of the game.

Keen to hear other peoples' thoughts and ideas. As I said, this is me spit-balling a concept and open to other suggestions.... Hate is not constructive nor is it welcome. Enjoy the day ladies & gents.

 

[greenBV4]

Flavour of the day: Conferences

Better idea than geographical conferences, our population and the majority of clubs is too lopsided for it to work in this country

But Im still not convinced on a conference/pool system, I don't see the need or the benefits (at least not at this stage)

The current system is fine, but we should be expanding to 18 teams (the AFL can manage that many teams I think we can too) and eventually 20 teams

once we get to 20, a pool system would probably be needed for any more teams, but I don't see the NRL expanding to 24 teams anytime soon (if ever)

 

[MrE_Assassin]

Better idea than geographical conferences, our population and the majority of clubs is too lopsided for it to work in this country

But Im still not convinced on a conference/pool system, I don't see the need or the benefits (at least not at this stage)

The current system is fine, but we should be expanding to 18 teams (the AFL can manage that many teams I think we can too) and eventually 20 teams

once we get to 20, a pool system would probably be needed for any more teams, but I don't see the NRL expanding to 24 teams anytime soon (if ever)

Absolutely agree that the pool/conference system doesn't need to happen at the moment as the comp is still too small, but yes in a larger comp ~20+ teams it may be a better way of having a home & away season to achieve the right number of games in a year.

A lot of players, big wigs of the game and fans keep crying for a shortened season or stand alone rep week/series and I think in an expanded competition a pool system could help with achieving that too.

I agree that the NRL should be expanding sooner rather than later and was a little disappointed when the comp went from 20-22 teams down to 14 or so but I suppose that's business. I would love nothing more than to see it reach that level again, but obviously the game itself be more competitive than it was when we last had 20 teams... which I think it is well on it's way.

The other argument of "not enough talent" I find is sometimes a bit of a cop out. This IS the case in AFL because of the 'A' - Australian Football League. I'm not saying that AFL can't recruit players from other parts of the world but with very few, professional sports like it, internationally, it is harder for that to happen. Rugby League has a bigger global talent pool that it can pull from; like your PNGs, Fiji's, Tonga's, etc. and that's just in our own region of the world, especially with coming over from Rugby, etc. I believe talent-wise we could easily accommodate an 18-20 team competition. I guess it all comes down to the money.

 

[applesauce]

Flavour of the day: Conferences

I've been going back through this forum and one thing I have noticed is a lot of people bring up the concept of "Conferences" and I want to bring the concept up again.

I think firstly we need to step away from the term "conference" though. This is an American sports ideology that works because the US is so big and has the geographical and population structure to support it. When you think of the NFL, it has two divisions with 4 conferences in each, which is inclusive of 32 team. This simply will NEVER happen in the NRL as Australia as a whole is too small. The NFL also has no real rival football code... we have at least 2, if not 3 if you include soccer (football for you European types).

My idea here is simple and please hear me out as it is just an idea and, like everyone else here, we all have an opinion on how the game should/could work and I'm doing this solely to promote another way of thinking and encourage constructive discussion. Why, instead of "conferences", can't we have "pools"?

Increase the comp to 18, 20 or 24 teams which would give pools of 4, 5 or 6 teams. At the end or start of each year the NRL hold a pool draw, much like the World Cup or European Championship. The teams are drawn from a collective of Sydney teams, QLD Teams, and those outside of those markets. Draw all the Sydney teams first across each of the pools, then the QLD teams and then the others. Each pool plays the other teams in their pool twice, with cross-pool games also scheduled (ie. one year pool 1 teams also play games against pool 3 teams, the following year it might be pool 1 v pool 2... if you catch my drift). This would then flesh out enough games for the rest of the season. Top 2 teams from each pool make the top eight for finals.

I understand that people will argue about some pools will be stronger than others or that rivalries will be missed out on, however you only need to look at the NFL or EPL that teams may not necessarily play each other every year but they still have that burning hatred for each other. I think this can also build a good marketing tool for when those teams do play each other again... A less is more approach can be applied to that. As for stronger or weaker pools, that is just sports and the luck of the draw. Some World Cup pools are easier or harder than others, but any team can win on their day.

The other point to note is that "Pools" don't have to be geographically attached like "Conferences" do. You can give each pool a letter, number or even name them after Immortals, Fathers/Pioneers of the game.

Keen to hear other peoples' thoughts and ideas. As I said, this is me spit-balling a concept and open to other suggestions.... Hate is not constructive nor is it welcome. Enjoy the day ladies & gents.

This has been bandied about for a while, here is a post of mine from 2015...

We just need 3 by 6 team divisions (assuming expansion). Play 5 other teams in your division home and away. Play one of the remaining divisions away and the third division at home (swap H and A each year). Total of 22 rounds.

Winner and runner up of the 3 divisions get into the top 8 regardless of record. Winners get 1-2-3 based on record. Runners up get 4-5-6 based on record and spots 7 and 8 are teams regardless of division that get in based on their record.

That way finals are not limited by potential match ups but a divisional system can make the most of rivalries and get home and away for the best drawing teams.

It also makes more games meaningful throughout the season as it takes longer for teams to be eliminated from finals contention.

 

[Rabbitoad]

Sorry, but conferences are an awful idea.

Some of the best drawing feuds in the NRL in the last decade or so have been interstate feuds.

A lot of clubs have big fan bases outside of their geographical region and those fans would lose their chance to see their team. It'd hurt your ability to sell merchandise to those fans too.

It wouldn't work.

 

[MrE_Assassin]

Sorry, but conferences are an awful idea.

Some of the best drawing feuds in the NRL in the last decade or so have been interstate feuds.

A lot of clubs have big fan bases outside of their geographical region and those fans would lose their chance to see their team. It'd hurt your ability to sell merchandise to those fans too.

It wouldn't work.

** News Flash - Roosters & Rabbitohs Agree On Something. **

I agree, the "Conference" idea is silly, but in a larger competition, ie 20+ teams, a Pool system works as you can still have interstate/district rivalries, and new ones can be forged. Thats the beauty of pools over conferences as they don't geographically discriminate and they can be changed yearly if you want to cycle teams through them so you get an opportunity to play different teams all the time.

It could even create a new representative tournament where the "all-stars" from each pool play each other in a short round robin tournament over a couple of weeks.

I suppose my concept was looking more to the long game rather than just the next round of expansion, if it happens.

Glad to hear your feedback though.

 

[Rabbitoad]

** News Flash - Roosters & Rabbitohs Agree On Something. **

I agree, the "Conference" idea is silly, but in a larger competition, ie 20+ teams, a Pool system works as you can still have interstate/district rivalries, and new ones can be forged. Thats the beauty of pools over conferences as they don't geographically discriminate and they can be changed yearly if you want to cycle teams through them so you get an opportunity to play different teams all the time.

It could even create a new representative tournament where the "all-stars" from each pool play each other in a short round robin tournament over a couple of weeks.

I suppose my concept was looking more to the long game rather than just the next round of expansion, if it happens.

Glad to hear your feedback though.

I would argue that a 20 team competition would still lend weight to a single conference competition.

I'd rather a comp where every team plays each other once, then we could have a legit international season.

We already have borderline conference rep teams in NSW vs QLD Cup premiers and under 20s Origin.

Neither of those games draw.

 

[JokerEel]

Better idea than geographical conferences, our population and the majority of clubs is too lopsided for it to work in this country

But Im still not convinced on a conference/pool system, I don't see the need or the benefits (at least not at this stage)

The current system is fine, but we should be expanding to 18 teams (the AFL can manage that many teams I think we can too) and eventually 20 teams

once we get to 20, a pool system would probably be needed for any more teams, but I don't see the NRL expanding to 24 teams anytime soon (if ever)

Current system is crap... There is a need for consistency through each season..

Eels and Panthers played once this season. A rivalry should be built on but as a fan I am un aware how many times or where the eels will play the Panthers next year...

Some teams get an easier draw than others which in turn gets them more wins better crowds sponsorship dollars...

 

[JokerEel]

Flavour of the day: Conferences

I've been going back through this forum and one thing I have noticed is a lot of people bring up the concept of "Conferences" and I want to bring the concept up again.

I think firstly we need to step away from the term "conference" though. This is an American sports ideology that works because the US is so big and has the geographical and population structure to support it. When you think of the NFL, it has two divisions with 4 conferences in each, which is inclusive of 32 team. This simply will NEVER happen in the NRL as Australia as a whole is too small. The NFL also has no real rival football code... we have at least 2, if not 3 if you include soccer (football for you European types).

My idea here is simple and please hear me out as it is just an idea and, like everyone else here, we all have an opinion on how the game should/could work and I'm doing this solely to promote another way of thinking and encourage constructive discussion. Why, instead of "conferences", can't we have "pools"?

Increase the comp to 18, 20 or 24 teams which would give pools of 4, 5 or 6 teams. At the end or start of each year the NRL hold a pool draw, much like the World Cup or European Championship. The teams are drawn from a collective of Sydney teams, QLD Teams, and those outside of those markets. Draw all the Sydney teams first across each of the pools, then the QLD teams and then the others. Each pool plays the other teams in their pool twice, with cross-pool games also scheduled (ie. one year pool 1 teams also play games against pool 3 teams, the following year it might be pool 1 v pool 2... if you catch my drift). This would then flesh out enough games for the rest of the season. Top 2 teams from each pool make the top eight for finals.

I understand that people will argue about some pools will be stronger than others or that rivalries will be missed out on, however you only need to look at the NFL or EPL that teams may not necessarily play each other every year but they still have that burning hatred for each other. I think this can also build a good marketing tool for when those teams do play each other again... A less is more approach can be applied to that. As for stronger or weaker pools, that is just sports and the luck of the draw. Some World Cup pools are easier or harder than others, but any team can win on their day.

The other point to note is that "Pools" don't have to be geographically attached like "Conferences" do. You can give each pool a letter, number or even name them after Immortals, Fathers/Pioneers of the game.

Keen to hear other peoples' thoughts and ideas. As I said, this is me spit-balling a concept and open to other suggestions.... Hate is not constructive nor is it welcome. Enjoy the day ladies & gents.

20 teams?? Andrew John's just died..

Conferences or pools same thing...

This isn't the EPL or NFL..

EPL they play each other twice to make the competition fair & consistent..

NFL there are 32 teams thats why they can have pools they dont do that silly thing you suggested though and have them drawn out of a hat though they have a consistent draw.

Splitting it into 2 pools let's say pools makes it a fair competition as you know everyone in your pool plays the same teams as you the same amount of times..
Like I did in another post consistancy is the key to growing the game.

 

[JokerEel]

Sorry, but conferences are an awful idea.

Some of the best drawing feuds in the NRL in the last decade or so have been interstate feuds.

A lot of clubs have big fan bases outside of their geographical region and those fans would lose their chance to see their team. It'd hurt your ability to sell merchandise to those fans too.

It wouldn't work.

Which fueds are you talking about ?


Fueds that happen twice a season with 2 pools..
Eels/Panthers
Eels/Tigers
Eels/Dogs
Eels/Manly
Souths/Roosters
Manly/Dogs
Sharks/St Merge

Cowboys/Broncos
Broncos/Storm
Storm/Warriors
Titans/Broncos
There are more....

Not sure how it would hurt regional fans need a bit more of an explanation..

 

[JokerEel]

I would argue that a 20 team competition would still lend weight to a single conference competition.

I'd rather a comp where every team plays each other once, then we could have a legit international season.

We already have borderline conference rep teams in NSW vs QLD Cup premiers and under 20s Origin.

Neither of those games draw.

Playing each other once would be a good trade off as it's an even comp but you miss the traditional fueds.

 

[TheFrog]

Eels and Panthers played once this season.

We played twice, round 1 (Penrith, 21,500) and round 5 (ANZ, 10,000). We played once last year, at Parramatta in front of 14,000. Gus kicked up a stink about that. I'm sure this game will be played twice in future seasons. No doubt a marquee event at the new joint but I'm not so sure Penrith will want to take its home game to Parramatta. This game has drawn better at Penrith than Parramatta for many years.

 

[JokerEel]

20 teams?? Andrew John's just died..

Conferences or pools same thing...

This isn't the EPL or NFL..

The EPL teams play each other twice to make it an even competition.

There are 20 clubs in the Premier League. During the course of a season (from August to May) each club plays the others twice (a double round-robin system), once at their home stadium and once at that of their opponents', for a total of 38 games. Teams receive three points for a win and one point for a draw.

Splitting it into 2 pools let's say pools makes it a fair competition as you know everyone in your pool plays the same teams as you the same amount of times..
Like I did in another post consistancy is the key to growing the game.

We played twice, round 1 and round 5. We played once last year, at Parramatta in front of 14,000. Gus kicked up a stink about that. I'm sure this game will be played twice in future seasons. No doubt a marquee event at the new joint but I'm not so sure Penrith will want to take its home game to Parramatta. This game has drawn better at Penrith than Parramatta for many years.

You are correct sir!

I tried to forget the past 20 rounds of the competition.

I dont think the Game should be taken away from Penrith Stadium either.

 

[taipan]

There has to be more local derbies ,at grounds that maximise the derby crowds.And times that maximise the derby crowds.

 

[Walter sobchak]

My two-penneth for what it’s worth on expansion would be expanding to an 18 team league with Perth and Brisbane2 being the new franchises. I’d also like to see the dragons based in Wollongong fulltime and maybe even manly or the roosters relocate to the central coast.

 

[greenBV4]

My two-penneth for what it’s worth on expansion would be expanding to an 18 team league with Perth and Brisbane2 being the new franchises. I’d also like to see the dragons based in Wollongong fulltime and maybe even manly or the roosters relocate to the central coast.

yep this would be the easiest/most likely way.

- Dragons to still play ANZAC at SFS and maybe another heritage game at Kogarah (against a SYD team)

- Out of Roosters and Manly I'd say Manly, if Brookvale isn't going to get a reno anytime soon and they wont move to SFS then the CC is surely their only choice?

Then if any team had financial issues, there should be no help from the NRL, they either fold and another team is admitted (NZ 2) or they are offered money to relocate

 

[Walter sobchak]

yep this would be the easiest/most likely way.

- Dragons to still play ANZAC at SFS and maybe another heritage game at Kogarah (against a SYD team)

- Out of Roosters and Manly I'd say Manly, if Brookvale isn't going to get a reno anytime soon and they wont move to SFS then the CC is surely their only choice?

Then if any team had financial issues, there should be no help from the NRL, they either fold and another team is admitted (NZ 2) or they are offered money to relocate

Looking back with hindsight manly should have stayed on the central coast after the northern eagles collapsed.

I’m from England so I don’t know the layout or makeup of the central coast but is it full of people who moved away from Sydney who would maybe support an NRL team like manly?

 

[Perth Red]

My two-penneth for what it’s worth on expansion would be expanding to an 18 team league with Perth and Brisbane2 being the new franchises. I’d also like to see the dragons based in Wollongong fulltime and maybe even manly or the roosters relocate to the central coast.

St’s are the only team to be drawing a decent regular crowd avg at suburban ground in Sydney this year, not sure why you’d move them to the gong where crowds are lower?

 

[Perth Red]

Looking back with hindsight manly should have stayed on the central coast after the northern eagles collapsed.

I’m from England so I don’t know the layout or makeup of the central coast but is it full of people who moved away from Sydney who would maybe support an NRL team like manly?

Northern eagles crowd avg was very poor so no real evidence they would.