Nathan Cleary - any good?

[umina panther]

So essentially what NSW has gravitated towards loving is mediocrity.

The only positive thing (if you can even call it a positive) that I've heard in this thread so far about Cleary in Origin is that he "didnt f*** up". So essentially he did nothing. He was a passenger. Maloney ran the show and Cleary reaped the rewards and in some respects, seemed to reap greater praise than Maloney. A parallel would be thinking that Cronk deserved the CC medal above Keary this year.

Against decent Origin opposition would Cleary be able to step up, take control of the game and direct the team towards a win? Pearce was shit in Origin. Make no mistake. But if Cleary was up against the origin spine of half a decade ago, and Cleary had played the same game, the opinions of him would be so much different.

The recent origin timeline says it all.
*Win nothing with Piss for years
*Hodko plays we win
*Piss comes back and we lose again
*Nathan comes in for the fraud and we win again

These facts are wonderful and indisputable

 

[hineyrulz]

So essentially what NSW has gravitated towards loving is mediocrity.

A summary of the thoughts in this thread would be that Cleary essentially did nothing. He was a passenger. Maloney ran the show and Cleary reaped the rewards and in some respects, seemed to reap greater praise than Maloney. A parallel would be thinking that Cronk deserved the CC medal above Keary this year.

Against decent Origin opposition would Cleary be able to step up, take control of the game and direct the team towards a win? Pearce was shit in Origin. Make no mistake. But if Cleary was up against the origin spine of half a decade ago, and Cleary had played the same game he played this year, the opinions of him would be so much different.

My point was solid at best is still a step up from a bloke who continually shit his pants whenever the pressure came on.


Cleary will have to improve massively to keep his spot IMO but it still doesn’t detract from the fact that Shitchell Pearce was complete aids every time he pulled on a Bues jersey.

 

[Chook Norris]

The recent origin timeline says it all.
*Win nothing with Piss for years
*Hodko plays we win
*Piss comes back and we lose again
*Nathan comes in for the fraud and we win again

These facts are wonderful and indisputable

Your facts are ok but they miss context.

Some indisputable simple facts for you:
- Correlation =/= causation
- Cleary never came up against Queensland's best spine
- Hodkinson came up against a depleted Queensland spine in 2014

 

[umina panther]

Your facts are ok but they miss context.

Some indisputable simple facts for you:
- Correlation =/= causation
- Cleary never came up against Queensland's best spine
- Hodkinson came up against a depleted Queensland spine in 2014

And if Nathan loses the next 10 series he'll still be more successful than Mitchell "my daddy was a good player and I'm the Shawn Marsh of rugby league" Pearce

 

[Chook Norris]

My point was solid at best is still a step up from a bloke who continually shit his pants whenever the pressure came on.

And i dont disagree with your point. I fully agree with you.

But the focus of this thread is on Cleary and I'm yet to see anything from him which suggests he will be a special player. He reaped a lot of praise in Origin despite not doing anything.

If he can reap praise when the blues win (despite him doing nothing), then similarly when/if the blues lose then criticism surely can also be applied to him

 

[Chook Norris]

And if Nathan loses the next 10 series he'll still be more successful than Mitchell "my daddy was a good player and I'm the Shawn Marsh of rugby league" Pearce

Nice try but that wouldnt tell the full story.

If Nathan loses the next 10 series against a dud Queensland team missing Thurston, Cronk, Slater and Inglis, itll further highlight how lucky he and the Blues got this year

 

[hineyrulz]

The recent origin timeline says it all.
*Win nothing with Piss for years
*Hodko plays we win
*Piss comes back and we lose again
*Nathan comes in for the fraud and we win again

These facts are wonderful and indisputable

Case closed.

 

[Clem Gould]

Everyone is avoiding clubland in this discussion. A season full of come from behind winx mostly generated on the baloney Kikau side . Panthers rolled out of finals with the super half.
So Hook is gone (as were the !8 season chances of winning
So the way i see it Is you have an average coach and a busted halfback (origin smashed his body) as the key figures for the next 4? years.
Pould missed JT and he sees this as a chance to get a win this time.
For me Nathan needs to get his body 100% to have the impact needed for the big dance. Plenty of time left of course but on balance i say he is pushing it uphill

 

[The Rosco]

And if Nathan loses the next 10 series he'll still be more successful than Mitchell "my daddy was a good player and I'm the Shawn Marsh of rugby league" Pearce

If I were making a quote dissin Pearce and talkin up Nathan , I'd probs avoid the use of the word "daddy".

 

[King hit]

Nice try but that wouldnt tell the full story.

If Nathan loses the next 10 series against a dud Queensland team missing Thurston, Cronk, Slater and Inglis, itll further highlight how lucky he and the Blues got this year

Dud Queensland team?

They still had half the Australian team from the World Cup. Had attacking potency of Slater, Inglis, Holmes, Gagai and Munster and forwards like Hess, wrecking ball Papalii and the big noted Titans such as Arrow and Wallace who are big noted by everyone in QLD.

The Blues didn’t get lucky they played better and more professional footy then their counterparts and deserved to win the series. Luck had nothing to do with it.

 

[Chook Norris]

Luck had nothing to do with it.

You're overreading my post. I never said Queensland have no good players left and that the blues didnt play well. But you're kidding yourself if you think the retirements of Thurston and Cronk (and the addition of Hunt) didnt play a material role in the Blues winning. That's where the luck is.

 

[King hit]

So QLD got lucky when Fittler and Johns retired?

 

[blaza88z]

Dud Queensland team?

They still had half the Australian team from the World Cup. Had attacking potency of Slater, Inglis, Holmes, Gagai and Munster and forwards like Hess, wrecking ball Papalii and the big noted Titans such as Arrow and Wallace who are big noted by everyone in QLD.

The Blues didn’t get lucky they played better and more professional footy then their counterparts and deserved to win the series. Luck had nothing to do with it.

What a load of shit, lol

I still think you're the definition of vermin, a Broncos fan who supports NSW, it makes me sick

 

[Danish]

Cleary’s biggest asset is his cool head. Kid just does not get flustered or overwhelmed.

He did basically nothing during origin, but he also didn’t have to. The team was better than what Queensland were putting out and he basically knew he could just do his job without getting too involved and let the stars shine. Any halfback that tried to take charge while Cook and Tedesco were singing like that would be an idiot.

For the panthers he takes on much more of a leadership role, and I fully expect him to be a great halfback with 300+ games under his belt on retirement.

Any club would be lucky to have him

 

[Hutty1986]

Nice try but that wouldnt tell the full story.

If Nathan loses the next 10 series against a dud Queensland team missing Thurston, Cronk, Slater and Inglis, itll further highlight how lucky he and the Blues got this year

"a dud qld team"??? Just when you thought roosters fans couldn't be more geniused

 

[T-Boon]

For the panthers he takes on much more of a leadership role, and I fully expect him to be a great halfback with 300+ games under his belt on retirement.

What about if he just keeps doing what he does now? Sill a great?

 

[mozza91]

Cleary had no bearing whatsoever on the result this year. He was a total passenger.

We won because our forward pack and outside backs were better than their opposites and because of the true man of the series Tedesco’s brilliance.

 

[Chook Norris]

So QLD got lucky when Fittler and Johns retired?

Context. 10 years + of absolute and deserved dominance is not luck. You cant compare the two at this stage

"a dud qld team"??? Just when you thought roosters fans couldn't be more geniused

The 2018 QLD team were duds in comparison to what was cooked up in previous years. Dont kid yourself

 

[mozza91]

I’m not defending Pearce at Origin level. He has been atrocious and should never be considered again. But we’d of won this year if he or even Hodkinson was in the #7.

No Smith, Thurston or Cronk and nuffies like Hunt and McCullough. It was a much weaker Queensland side your kidding if you think otherwise.

 

[umina panther]

I’m not defending Pearce at Origin level. He has been atrocious and should never be considered again. But we’d of won this year if he or even Hodkinson was in the #7.

No Smith, Thurston or Cronk and nuffies like Hunt and McCullough. It was a much weaker Queensland side your kidding if you think otherwise.

Just on Smith. The way he bailed on QLD a few weeks before the series is probably the worst act of cowardice I can think of in this sport