Peter Beatte NRL 360 - expansion

[Perth Red]

If You start using Sydney clubs as feeder clubs qr merge entities your going to lose thousands even millions of fans. Many might come back , many will be lost to league. Many of the ones that do come back will never have the same passion and conviction levels .

Less viewer means lower rating!

Maybe, maybe not. History would suggest not.

 

[King hit]

Do you really want me to list drugullas black marks over the last decade? Lol

Still not as bad as the Storm

 

[Perth Red]

Still not as bad as the Storm

That would be subjective. Worse drug case in history of game, multiple player indiscretions, coach kicked out of the game, numerous CEOs and chairman under a cloud,ongoing financial dramas, and still a salary cap investigation to come. It’s an impressive portfolio of f**k ups for one club!

 

[King hit]

Much deflectings from the deluded Storm fan

 

[Stallion]

Prey do tell how afl would manage that with just 1.5 clubs? If they can do it with so few clubs why do we need so many to hold it? Despite the loss and merger of Sydney clubs in recent times the tv audience remains strong in Sydney suggesting more rationalisation will have little impact mid to long term on tv audiences or advertising $.

PR : You seriously think that people will change their loyalty for a club with a change of identity? I'm at a loss to grasp any of your divisive carve up of well established and well known clubs!? It just doesn't make sense. By losing fans you think the code can click it's fingers and find new fans? That's what you are expecting. Nonsensical and reckless stuff. I'll leave it at that . It's been discussed before yet is continuously brought up by certain contributors with monotony . Completely divisive and disruptive for the most popular rugby competition (bar none:union or league ) in the world! And this is what you come up with!?

 

[Stallion]

Prey do tell how afl would manage that with just 1.5 clubs? If they can do it with so few clubs why do we need so many to hold it? Despite the loss and merger of Sydney clubs in recent times the tv audience remains strong in Sydney suggesting more rationalisation will have little impact mid to long term on tv audiences or advertising $.

The tv ratings are not commensurate with population increase. I suggest things are not rosey as your depict. More like had these clubs like Bears, Balmain and Wests not been shafted (excluded or merged ) TV ratings , relevance and general interest for the code would have been much greater. Instead the patch work and what is still a great tv product hid a decline in popularity . NORTHERN Sydney being the most appropriate example of the codes decline and vulnerability when a longstanding club is cut and its longstanding rival club hits bad times. But you ignore this so we labour on! Are you aware that there are many people still not happy with the loss in identity of their clubs? I know its only anecdotal but I see and meet disgruntled former fans regularly and they scornfully refer to the carve up this great competition suffered in 1998. It matters!

 

[tri_colours]

Maybe, maybe not. History would suggest not.

What history?

Maybe, maybe not. History would suggest not.

Im not really sure what history your talking about . There's no TV or Membership figures for those years, I guess the only thing to compare, and I doubt it gives an accurate picture, would be the crowd figures. The West Tiger doesn't seem to have been affected that badly. However crowds were down on average about 1/3 in the St George-Illawarra merger. And in the 3 years that the Northern Eagles existed there crowds were down about 50%.

And as has been mentioned, its not just that. Supporters pretty much all regional supporters, Brisbane supporters, New Zealand , PNG, Samoa and anywhere else were they played rugby league supported, maybe 2nd choice, but they supported a Sydney team.

 

[Perth Red]

What history?



Im not really sure what history your talking about . There's no TV or Membership figures for those years, I guess the only thing to compare, and I doubt it gives an accurate picture, would be the crowd figures. The West Tiger doesn't seem to have been affected that badly. However crowds were down on average about 1/3 in the St George-Illawarra merger. And in the 3 years that the Northern Eagles existed there crowds were down about 50%.

And as has been mentioned, its not just that. Supporters pretty much all regional supporters, Brisbane supporters, New Zealand , PNG, Samoa and anywhere else were they played rugby league supported, maybe 2nd choice, but they supported a Sydney team.

I’m talking overall for the game. When you look at public interest, revenue, tv value, attendances overall etc they would suggest that rationalisation of an overcrowded market that is holding expansion of the game back isn’t going to have long term detrimental effects on the health of the game like some would claim. It hasn’t in the past and more than like,y won’t in the future.

 

[Stallion]

I’m talking overall for the game. When you look at public interest, revenue, tv value, attendances overall etc they would suggest that rationalisation of an overcrowded market that is holding expansion of the game back isn’t going to have long term detrimental effects on the health of the game like some would claim. It hasn’t in the past and more than like,y won’t in the future.

That's where you get it wrong. Their is no (repeat No) overcrowded market in Sydney. In reality the Sydney clubs are the catalyst of the NRL market Australia wide. If the NRL were prudent they would reinvigorate/recapture the lost area of North Sydney and gain another with one wise and easy to do strategic call: CENTRAL COAST BEARS! Add another Brisbane team and you have a more consolidated and less vulnerable NRL competition and market presence. And ofcourse their is room for additional clubs elsewhere as time goes on. But these two clubs(CC Bears & Brisbane 2) are a relatively easy fit within ' rugby league ' areas.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

In todays game though , finances /advertising are pretty much the be all and end all of everything., and any success is not going to happen without them. The East Coast is the most financial area in Australia , with Sydney being the jewel in the crown and any thoughts of splitting or diluting our advantages would be dissasterous for the game

I'm not proposing splitting or diluting anything. I was making a point to Stallion that there are just as many important clubs outside of Sydney today as there are in Sydney.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

With respect : it looks like THE RESPECT that should be afforded the Sydney clubs is not being shown by some on this site. The NRL would not exist had it not been for the magnificent rivalry and chemistry of the clubs so many people adore / dislike and are familiar with. This is being forgot by the "get rid of a club in Sydney faction ". The disrespect is astounding. And I'm all for additional clubs from elsewhere but don't kill the golden goose that laid the golden eggs!

Equally the NRL would exist and certainly wouldn't be getting the commercial growth it is without the non-Sydney clubs. They are just as important to the NRL in the modern game. Picture where the NRL is without: Brisbane, Melboune, Warriors, primarily and to a slightly lesser extent Canberra, Newcastle and North QLD

 

[tri_colours]

Why the need to kill off 1 fan base to create another????????????? Financially and in every other area that I can of think of 2 supported areas are better than 1.

The AFL run a successful 18 club competition.

 

[Stallion]

Equally the NRL would exist and certainly wouldn't be getting the commercial growth it is without the non-Sydney clubs. They are just as important to the NRL in the modern game. Picture where the NRL is without: Brisbane, Melboune, Warriors, primarily and to a slightly lesser extent Canberra, Newcastle and North QLD

You seem to think that I'm opposed to clubs outside of Sydney!? This is definitely not so. As I have repeatedly informed that additional clubs from elsewhere are welcome! Just don't kill off the fabric and base of this most popular rugby league competition. (The well known and widely popular Sydney clubs in Australias biggest market/city)

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

Why the need to kill off 1 fan base to create another????????????? Financially and in every other area that I can of think of 2 supported areas are better than 1.

The AFL run a successful 18 club competition.

Can the comp support 24 teams， because i count at least half a dozen expansion areas that need teams.

Do we just forget those areas? Do we just keep increasing the number of clubs until the comp collapses? Does Sydney need 9 clubs when every other city seems to do fine with 1?

 

[tri_colours]

Can the comp support 24 teams， because i count at least half a dozen expansion areas that need teams.

Do we just forget those areas? Do we just keep increasing the number of clubs until the comp collapses? Does Sydney need 9 clubs when every other city seems to do fine with 1?

Why not?. As the saying goes though , it just doesn't happen overnight. Two clubs in the next couple of years not 8 and a few more in another10 years. And when we opened up areas like WA & SA and they started producing there own players we could look at picking up the pace. At That time we could start looking at other options, maybe something along the lines two conference system .As long as our base remains solid there is no limit to how far we can go.

 

[Stallion]

Can the comp support 24 teams， because i count at least half a dozen expansion areas that need teams.

Do we just forget those areas? Do we just keep increasing the number of clubs until the comp collapses? Does Sydney need 9 clubs when every other city seems to do fine with 1?

Eventually the NRL could be a 24 team comp!? Two conferences a likely scenario if smartly planned. So you don't weaken he comp to expand. Expansion from a solid foundation rather than a 'falling pack of cards' should be the prudent way forward.

 

[Perth Red]

$'s are the problem. The game is probably close to topping out on its revenue unless something drastic happens around digital in the future but unlikely. So it then becomes how does the NRL pay for extra clubs when there are so many mouths to feed and with finite resources? Every time it adds a club it adds around $15-20million to its expenditure line. Even with the big grant increase half of clubs are still claiming poverty, making the NRL very nervous about inviting more mouths to the table. We are very much stuck in a catch 22 and have been for over a decade now. We need to grow but cant afford to grow.
Maybe the answer is like Aleague where you put a massive purchase price on a new license to help cover the short term costs, or maybe we need to reduce the current mouths, or maybe we stay as we are and live with what we've got. Its not easy decisions and will be very interesting to see what what the latest NRL expansion review comes out with at the end of the year.

 

[tri_colours]

$'s are the problem. The game is probably close to topping out on its revenue unless something drastic happens around digital in the future but unlikely. So it then becomes how does the NRL pay for extra clubs when there are so many mouths to feed and with finite resources? Every time it adds a club it adds around $15-20million to its expenditure line. Even with the big grant increase half of clubs are still claiming poverty, making the NRL very nervous about inviting more mouths to the table. We are very much stuck in a catch 22 and have been for over a decade now. We need to grow but cant afford to grow.
Maybe the answer is like Aleague where you put a massive purchase price on a new license to help cover the short term costs, or maybe we need to reduce the current mouths, or maybe we stay as we are and live with what we've got. Its not easy decisions and will be very interesting to see what what the latest NRL expansion review comes out with at the end of the year.

The game is on verge of announcing its biggest ever surplus. It made on average $10 m a year over the previous 5 years , So don't believe everything you read in the press, the game is a long ways of being tapped out. Any new additions in Non heartland territory will burn money and will not show any return on investment for years eg. Melbourne 20 years ago.

And the clubs in the biggest need of the NRL support have been the expansion clubs along with the merged clubs,.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

You seem to think that I'm opposed to clubs outside of Sydney!? This is definitely not so. As I have repeatedly informed that additional clubs from elsewhere are welcome! Just don't kill off the fabric and base of this most popular rugby league competition. (The well known and widely popular Sydney clubs in Australias biggest market/city)

I understand your stance on the expansion clubs - your comments are very welcoming of them. I just want to make the point that right now, in 2019, The Storm, Broncos and Warriors are just as important brands to the NRL as the Dogs, Eels and Rabbits and are much more important than some of the smaller Sydney clubs.

 

[Perth Red]

The game is on verge of announcing its biggest ever surplus. It made on average $10 m a year over the previous 5 years , So don't believe everything you read in the press, the game is a long ways of being tapped out. Any new additions in Non heartland territory will burn money and will not show any return on investment for years eg. Melbourne 20 years ago.

And the clubs in the biggest need of the NRL support have been the expansion clubs along with the merged clubs,.

The surplus in 18 is part of the 5 year revenue cycle. Last time we had major surpluses in yr 1 & 2 then losses in yr3-5.

Yr 1 $45mill surplus
Yr 2 $21mill surplus
Yr 3 $8mill loss
Yr 4 $2.6mill loss
Yr 5 $3.7mill loss

plus around $15mill losses consolidated on bailing clubs and state leagues out. That was on a revenue of $1.665bill

Dont get me wrong the NRL has more income now than it could have dreamed about in 1995 (could you imagine the game back then thinking it would one day reach $500mill a year income?) but it seems to be spending it all and then some. However if the NRL is legit about not bailing clubs out then expense of carrying clubs we have seen in last 5 years wont be there.