Non Footy Chat Thread II

[Gary Gutful]

When do you feel petrol cars will be phased out completely?

They'll be largely gone by 2030. They won't disappear completely though.

 

[strider]

They'll be largely gone by 2030. They won't disappear completely though.

Are we talking fully electric or hybrid too?

 

[hindy111]

They'll be largely gone by 2030. They won't disappear completely though.

From my reading you use about 14Kw of battery per 100kms.

So most cars have about 40Kw batteries so approx 300kms.

To charge gets tricks. At home a standard plug giving 10Amps at 240V will give you 2.4Kw per hour of charge. So it would take 18hrs to charge a 40Kw. Battery.

But you can get fast chargers rated 7.2Kw. That's 3 x faster.
But still looking at 6hrs. Problem is its pulling 30Amps. That's a lot of strain on the power grid and on peoples homes who have 63Amps you've lost half. Hot water kicks in and another 20A is gone. Most unit blocks couldn't dream of 30A chargers. Most town houses and units have 40Amps.

The next charger you need 415 V which rules out most peoples homes. I assume charging stations will have these style.

Anyhows if ther exists already pressure on our electricity grid they'll need to sort it out before every home is putting these in. Id imagine everyone will atleast need the 7.2Kw which draws 30Amps for 6hrs. Id say it is very rare anyone is pulling 30Amps at their homes for more then maybe a total of 2hrs a day.

I think my average is about 11Kw a day. So a 40Kw battery is 4 days worth of power. For 300kms? That seems ridiculous

 

[I'm a loser baby...]

FFS gary

 

[chiefy1]

From my reading you use about 14Kw of battery per 100kms.

So most cars have about 40Kw batteries so approx 300kms.

To charge gets tricks. At home a standard plug giving 10Amps at 240V will give you 2.4Kw per hour of charge. So it would take 18hrs to charge a 40Kw. Battery.

But you can get fast chargers rated 7.2Kw. That's 3 x faster.
But still looking at 6hrs. Problem is its pulling 30Amps. That's a lot of strain on the power grid and on peoples homes who have 63Amps you've lost half. Hot water kicks in and another 20A is gone. Most unit blocks couldn't dream of 30A chargers. Most town houses and units have 40Amps.

The next charger you need 415 V which rules out most peoples homes. I assume charging stations will have these style.

Anyhows if ther exists already pressure on our electricity grid they'll need to sort it out before every home is putting these in. Id imagine everyone will atleast need the 7.2Kw which draws 30Amps for 6hrs. Id say it is very rare anyone is pulling 30Amps at their homes for more then maybe a total of 2hrs a day.

I think my average is about 11Kw a day. So a 40Kw battery is 4 days worth of power. For 300kms? That seems ridiculous

The new hybrids never need to be pluggjng in the rav 4 for example. Who knows by 2030 all electric cars may not need plugging in

 

[hindy111]

The new hybrids never need to be pluggjng in the rav 4 for example. Who knows by 2030 all electric cars may not need plugging in

Well if ran a dc to do charger and had solar panels then you could put 20A per hour. That's DC.So that's 10 times slower then the 240V 2.4Kw.
But guess it helps and if ran dual alternators perhaps could have tripple that while driving.

 

[Twizzle]

When using a 22kW fast charger, a battery can be recharged to full in between four and seven hours, while a faster 50kW fast charger drastically reduces that time to 80 per cent in around an hour.

It just depends on how far you need to drive.

As we mine more Lithium, the prices will drop. All of our Lithium is exported as we don't make Lithium batteries here in Oz. The batteries are a significant cost of an EV. The chargers are currently around $2K for 7 kw and $20K for fast chargers. The all up running cost, including maintenance, of an EV compared to a fossil fuel car is currently around 20% and dropping.

Diesel engines will never be phased out as farmers and the like need them for far more than 3 hours, they will just become dearer and it's expected by next year EVs will drop in price significantly when European cars enter our market. Australia is 2-3% of the world market so we're near last in the pecking order when it comes to purchasing power.

Most ars are currently designed to run for 3 hours which should get most people to work and home again.

Been looking at them for a while and will probably wait another year or so.

 

[Twizzle]

The new hybrids never need to be pluggjng in the rav 4 for example. Who knows by 2030 all electric cars may not need plugging in

Unless they are hybrids, they will always need charging, you won't get enough solar panels on the roof of a car to make it sustainable.

 

[strider]

Have they figured out more about the lifespan of the new components and recycling etc? Im assuming battery tech will continue to evolve. Maybe move on from lithium. Lithium is just another unsustainable resource right?

And of course we will all be needing alot more electricity if all our cars are gonna run on it. But we can just do what Albo said, and plug it in and let our solar panels charge it overnight ... maybe the new work from home lifestyle will allow us to have the car at home during the day for many.

 

[Gronk]

Unless they are hybrids, they will always need charging, you won't get enough solar panels on the roof of a car to make it sustainable.

Early adopters in technology mostly end up paying too much and get caught out with redundant 1st gen kit. I reckon recharging your car will become much easier for those with off street parking and that's when I will jump in the pond.

https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/inductive-car-charging-what-is-it

 

[Gronk]

Have they figured out more about the lifespan of the new components and recycling etc? Im assuming battery tech will continue to evolve. Maybe move on from lithium. Lithium is just another unsustainable resource right?

And of course we will all be needing alot more electricity if all our cars are gonna run on it. But we can just do what Albo said, and plug it in and let our solar panels charge it overnight ... maybe the new work from home lifestyle will allow us to have the car at home during the day for many.

Dr Karl said in his Triple J podcast recently that there is more than enough lithium in the world to sustain us for generations. Also that recycled lithium actually works better than first use.

There is talk that lithium-ion will be replaced with lithium-sulphur or lithium-sodium. Monash University are getting x5 better results on both fast charge, range and life.

 

[Twizzle]

Early adopters in technology mostly end up paying too much and get caught out with redundant 1st gen kit. I reckon recharging your car will become much easier for those with off street parking and that's when I will jump in the pond.

https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/inductive-car-charging-what-is-it

View attachment 67271

No doubt we will see see inductive chargers embedded in the carpark so you ony have to park over them and swipe your CC and your car will be charged when you knock off work. The inductive charges are not fast chargers though so if you've got all day it shouldn't be an issue.

 

[Gronk]

No doubt we will see see inductive chargers embedded in the carpark so you ony have to park over them and swipe your CC and your car will be charged when you knock off work. The inductive charges are not fast chargers though so if you've got all day it shouldn't be an issue.

Well my new inductive charger for my new phone charges just as fast as usb-c, so I see no reason why that won't translate to EVs in the future.

 

[hindy111]

When using a 22kW fast charger, a battery can be recharged to full in between four and seven hours, while a faster 50kW fast charger drastically reduces that time to 80 per cent in around an hour.

It just depends on how far you need to drive.

As we mine more Lithium, the prices will drop. All of our Lithium is exported as we don't make Lithium batteries here in Oz. The batteries are a significant cost of an EV. The chargers are currently around $2K for 7 kw and $20K for fast chargers. The all up running cost, including maintenance, of an EV compared to a fossil fuel car is currently around 20% and dropping.

Diesel engines will never be phased out as farmers and the like need them for far more than 3 hours, they will just become dearer and it's expected by next year EVs will drop in price significantly when European cars enter our market. Australia is 2-3% of the world market so we're near last in the pecking order when it comes to purchasing power.

Most ars are currently designed to run for 3 hours which should get most people to work and home again.

Been looking at them for a while and will probably wait another year or so.

Yes but 22Kw is 90Amps single phases or 30Amps three phase.
How many houses have 3 phase? Majority won't
A 50Kw charger? Thats 200amps

How many houses only have street parking?

How many unit blocks have enough power at the blocks onr on streets to have these? I've worked at plenty of units. Some only have 32A total and most have 40A. Imagine a 7kw charger (30A)


So most homes will have to go just a 2.2kw -7Kw charger. Which is a long time to charge.
For a 40Kw battery you get 300kms in a small car. I'm guessing around 200km for a ute.
Now factor in you'll lose about 15kms effiecncy every year as battery ages. So in 5 yrs 225kms.

Average person I guess does 15,000-20,000kms a year. So that means a charge about 60 times.
That works out about 7kws a day you will be adding to the electricity grid. I'm using about 10-12kw by memory.
So we will be increasing THE LOAD on our electricity grid by about 50%. It wasn't long ago when they where telling merkins to turn air con off so won't cause a blow out.
Let's gone they've looked into this properly before just rolling it all out.

 

[hindy111]

Have they figured out more about the lifespan of the new components and recycling etc? Im assuming battery tech will continue to evolve. Maybe move on from lithium. Lithium is just another unsustainable resource right?

And of course we will all be needing alot more electricity if all our cars are gonna run on it. But we can just do what Albo said, and plug it in and let our solar panels charge it overnight ... maybe the new work from home lifestyle will allow us to have the car at home during the day for many.

The grid won't handle it. We'd be putting a minimum 50% extra load on it. Most likely more as so many people will do charging at sametime - Weekends. 1

I did a basic calculation on a small vehicle like a corrola using 6.5km/100 and based it on 15,000kms a year. Positive would be 2500kw of electricity approx $750 to run it on current rate vs 1,000 litres of fuel and $1.80 so let's say $1,800.
You'll have $1,000 a year saving.

 

[hindy111]

No doubt we will see see inductive chargers embedded in the carpark so you ony have to park over them and swipe your CC and your car will be charged when you knock off work. The inductive charges are not fast chargers though so if you've got all day it shouldn't be an issue.

I mean this could work for some. But you need to have the power available in the first place. Most factories I work at don't have 1000s of amps free. Sure the bigger ones may. Heaps of the smaller places barely have enough and have to chose which machine to use at the same times etc. They sure won't be bale to charge 2 or 3 cars at a time.

There is other ways we could or could of done to go a different path and we've ignored it.

A - Promote public transport. Make it cheaper. Give incentives to use it. Make it better in general.

B- Promote car pooling.

C - Only allow smaller fuel efficient cars. Exceptions to tradies or people who need them but majority don't. Same goes for v8s unfortunately which I love but hey if we want to get greener.

D- Incentives to cycle to work and creating jobs in local areas so people aren't having to travel as far and often.


All this shit is neglected. Instead of changing our ways we change to a new technology. And in 50yrs we are going to have millions of toxic batteries we need to get rid of.

 

[Chipmunk]

So what happens when families go on holidays? How do they get on, only travel 3 hours a day? it would take a family a week to get to Queensland.

I assume you will also use more battery at night?

 

[hindy111]

So what happens when families go on holidays? How do they get on, only travel 3 hours a day? it would take a family a week to get to Queensland.

I assume you will also use more battery at night?

No the car doesn't have solar. Car solar panels won't work. It's DC and needs to be converted to AC and diff voltage batteries. Plus even if equipment come out to work the amount of charge off a car roof panels would do almost nothing. Maybe 1km per hour of charge at best.

I dare say charging stations will have the 150kw -200kw an hour charge stations so they charge a 40Kw battery in 15mins.
If it was 15-20mins for about 300kms I don't think it's too bad.
Also keep in mind batterries lose efficiency.
300km brand new may end up 150km in 4 or 5yrs time.

 

[Chipmunk]

No the car doesn't have solar. Car solar panels won't work. It's DC and needs to be converted to AC and diff voltage batteries. Plus even if equipment come out to work the amount of charge off a car roof panels would do almost nothing. Maybe 1km per hour of charge at best.

I dare say charging stations will have the 150kw -200kw an hour charge stations so they charge a 40Kw battery in 15mins.
If it was 15-20mins for about 300kms I don't think it's too bad.
Also keep in mind batterries lose efficiency.
300km brand new may end up 150km in 4 or 5yrs time.

So you're going to have to replace your batteries after a while?

 

[hindy111]

So you're going to have to replace your batteries after a while?

Yes of course. Like any battery it's pot luck. Some will last 3yrs and others 10yrs.And without notice I assume. Just one day they won't charge like Any other lithium battery. But one things for certain after every single charge you will lose a little bit of efficiency. You won't notice it in the first year or two but after 3 or 4 you certainly will