I f**king hate poker

[Bumble]

Ok, just got home from APL regional poker finals. The top 3 players get a ticket to a million dollar tournament later in the year.

3 tables left. I'm at big blind with 15500 (starting stacks of 2500)- Everybody folds until it gets to the button, and she pushes all in for 16000.

I look at my cards...Pocket Kings. I call and she shows A-10.

Her ten hits a one card straight.

I would've been chip leader with 2 tables left.

 

[Sugar]

Bad luck mate
The suck outs always hurt more

 

[zombie jesus]

That would suck.

I was running hot yesterday, AA three times within 15 hands and a lot of friendly flops, this morning I can't hit anything and getting outdrawn when I do catch a little something.

 

[HevyDevy]

Yeah, but that's one of those things that happen I guess.

Tough to take at the time but at the end of the day you only had a pair ... it's more the fact that he hit a straight with the 10. If he had hit the A instead you probably could have dealt with it a bit easier ...

 

[Tommy Smith]

Ok, just got home from APL regional poker finals. The top 3 players get a ticket to a million dollar tournament later in the year.

3 tables left. I'm at big blind with 15500 (starting stacks of 2500)- Everybody folds until it gets to the button, and she pushes all in for 16000.

I look at my cards...Pocket Kings. I call and she shows A-10.

Her ten hits a one card straight.

I would've been chip leader with 2 tables left.

What was she doing pushing all-in? We're the blinds up around the 2-4k mark or something?

If not then she was obviosuly a donkey for not just making a raise instead of going all-in given the size of her stack.

Either way very unlucky. Donkey luck rules in poker.

 

[HevyDevy]

It does, but thank God it exists.

If it didn't there would be no fish and therefore no point playing.

 

[zombie jesus]

I have been having a really bad run the last couple of days, every hand I make is second best, even the one time I got AA this afternoon so did the other guy aaarrrrrghhhhhhhhhhh........ spent an hour punching the bag but still need to vent some, either go for a run or smoke up a storm, maybe both.

I see the APPT has been announced for 2nd December with an event in Auckland this year too.

 

[HevyDevy]

Yep I met up with some of the Pokerstars people last night. There could even be a few more APPT events thrown in but at the moment they have the six confirmed with the Manila dates to be set (I played in the Manila event last year, quite good actually).

As for AA, well, do you really want pocket aces anyway? Maybe late in a tournament you do but otherwise no way!

 

[zombie jesus]

I'll take AA everytime if I can.

 

[Saintsman]

Whenever you have AA you probably lose 70% of the time lol.

 

[Ghoulies]

As for AA, well, do you really want pocket aces anyway? Maybe late in a tournament you do but otherwise no way!

:lol:

I hope you're kidding.

 

[HevyDevy]

Not at all.

Early in a tournament it's not what I want.

On a cash table I play them very carefully and am more than willing to fold should a tricky flop hit the board or if someone starts betting big.

In SnG's, yes I want Aces.

 

[zombie jesus]

I have been trying cash games the last few weeks and have decided I don't like them very much, I think I'm conditioned to dealing with blinds and antes going up and eliminations, do so much better in tournies and SnG's, I'll stick to those.

 

[Ghoulies]

Not at all.

Early in a tournament it's not what I want.

On a cash table I play them very carefully and am more than willing to fold should a tricky flop hit the board or if someone starts betting big.

In SnG's, yes I want Aces.

In the 16k hands I've played since April, pocket Aces are far and away my most profitable hand. The others didn't even come close (ftr, KK has earned me the 2nd most).

Yes, I'll lose a big pot with aces every now and then, but as long as you proceed with caution in deep stack situations, there are no better two cards to see than AA.

I think you've been reading too much into the benefits of implied odds hands. With a hand like 87s you might crack someones big pair and stack them (difficult against someone who actually knows what they're doing), but it's barely enough to make up for all the times the hand either amounts to nothing, or something very marginal (middle pair).

Though if you have data suggesting otherwise I'd love to see it.

 

[watatank]

Well said. Also,if you are losing with AA you should be betting harder (well, enough to get heads up with another player)

 

[Everlovin' Antichrist]

Try playing an After Dark Freeroll first hand with Aces. lol

You'll be lucky if you only get 5 calls.

 

[HevyDevy]

In the 16k hands I've played since April, pocket Aces are far and away my most profitable hand. The others didn't even come close (ftr, KK has earned me the 2nd most).

Yes, I'll lose a big pot with aces every now and then, but as long as you proceed with caution in deep stack situations, there are no better two cards to see than AA.

I think you've been reading too much into the benefits of implied odds hands. With a hand like 87s you might crack someones big pair and stack them (difficult against someone who actually knows what they're doing), but it's barely enough to make up for all the times the hand either amounts to nothing, or something very marginal (middle pair).

Though if you have data suggesting otherwise I'd love to see it.

You say that because A-A is a favourite against any random hand, however I'm never going to push my whole stack in on Aces unless it's pre-flop. After that (ie posrt-flop) I can assume that the only hand that can call a push will be a hand that beats me unless it's some moron that will go all in with nothing but top pair. In general, I don't consider Aces to be a profitable hand.

The problem a lot of players have is that they can't get away from their big pairs. If I have 7-7 on a board of 10-7-2 then chances are I'm going to stack my opponent. But what if I have A-A on a board of Q-10-3 when my opponent has 7-7? If I come out betting they're not going to come with me.

Find me a pro that wants A-A early in a tournament and I'll eat my socks!

Cash games are different but again tread cautiously. Do I want Aces in cash games? Of course I do! But my absolute favourite hands of all are small-mid pairs on the button. Give me that any day of the week (although I'll only call a significant raise or re-raise when my opponent has a monster stack).

 

[Ghoulies]

You say that because A-A is a favourite against any random hand, however I'm never going to push my whole stack in on Aces unless it's pre-flop. After that (ie posrt-flop) I can assume that the only hand that can call a push will be a hand that beats me unless it's some moron that will go all in with nothing but top pair. In general, I don't consider Aces to be a profitable hand.

There are morons, and occasionally people who aren't morons (Patrik Antonius springs to mind), who'll do such a thing post-flop. That's where hand reading skills come into it.

The problem a lot of players have is that they can't get away from their big pairs. If I have 7-7 on a board of 10-7-2 then chances are I'm going to stack my opponent. But what if I have A-A on a board of Q-10-3 when my opponent has 7-7? If I come out betting they're not going to come with me.

As long as you tread cautiously and don't overplay your hand, aces are still the best +cEV hand available. What about when your opponent has a hand like AQ, KQ or even KK on a board like that? You'll find a lot more success on average in tournament play if you run into a lot of big pairs early on than if you pick up a bunch of speculative hands.

Find me a pro that wants A-A early in a tournament and I'll eat my socks!

Hope you're hungry. TJ Cloutier, Dan Harrington, Mike Matusow, Chris Ferguson and Greg Raymer are pros who I could actually quote as saying they wish they could get aces every hand. I doubt any pro would seriously say no to aces early in a tournament.

Cash games are different but again tread cautiously. Do I want Aces in cash games? Of course I do! But my absolute favourite hands of all are small-mid pairs on the button. Give me that any day of the week (although I'll only call a significant raise or re-raise when my opponent has a monster stack).

I like to play implied odds hands in position too, but the stats don't lie. Big pairs perform consistently better over the long run than small pairs and suited connectors do. If this isn't the case for everyone then they must be misplaying them.

 

[HevyDevy]

I've had long discussions with Negreanu, Hachem and Lee Nelson about this issue.

Nelson said he doesn't want them, Hachem said they're not his favourite hand.

Now, I asked Negreaunu the following:

It's the very first hand of the WSOP main event, you look down at A-A and the two guys sitting next to you go all in - do you call?

Daniel: "Absolutely. If you double or triple up that early it gives you a massive advantage. If you get eliminated, so what? You were probably going to get knocked out at some stage anyway!"

:lol:

Anyway, obviously you would be massively +EV with Aces every hand and there is no better single hand to get. That's just plain common sense. But you rarely stack a decent player with them is what i'm saying. The best hands are the well disguised ones ... and at the end of the day A-A is only a pair. Remember that the average winning hand is 2-pair.

That's why I say that I want Aces later in a tourney when I can make people pay to see their connectors or small pairs. Early it's much cheaper for them to see a flop and draw to a monster against me.

 

[HevyDevy]

I like to play implied odds hands in position too, but the stats don't lie. Big pairs perform consistently better over the long run than small pairs and suited connectors do. If this isn't the case for everyone then they must be misplaying them.

Of course they do! I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just saying that in tournament play, early on, Aces aren't going to make you a lot of money against any sort of decent player. That changes later in a tournament.