Why France was dudded in the 2008 RLWC..

[Coastbloke]

As promised, my thoughts on why France unbelievably finshed 10th out of 10 in the 2008 RLWC, after most thought they would be 4th or at least 5th in the final rankings..

Well, I thought John Monie was a decent coach but he appears he has no idea of rugby leagues' positions of play. Anyone who even has a fleeting interest in Rugby league would know who goes where and if that best player in the position is not available, then you would find the next best person available and select that player..

Nup.

Not John Monie. For the pool match, here was his team for the Pool match where France got a caning against Fiji 42-6 - with the usual positions of the players. And I also pointed out when applicable that he used Australians that France did NOT need...

1. Jared Taylor - Centre - (Aust)
2. Justin Murphy - Winger - (Aust)
3. John Wilson - Centre / Second Rower (Aust)
4. Sebastian Raguin - Lock
5. Dimitri Pelo - Winger
6. Thomas Bosc - Fullback / 5/8 9I know he usually plays 5/8 or Dragons
7. Christopher Moly - Second Rower........!!!!!!!! :shock:
8. Jean-Christopher Borlin - Prop
9. James Wynne - Halfback...I suppose Joey did it... (Aust)
10. Oliver Elima - Lock
11. Jerome Guissett - Prop
12. Teddy Sadaoui - Centre
13. Gregory Mounis - Lock / Second Row

14. Laurent Carrasco - Second Rower / Lock
15. Remi Casty - Prop
16. Jamal Fakir - Second Rower
17. Maxime Greseque - Halfback...

All over the bloody place if you ask me. Granted Rinaldi was ruled out with the 1st pool match against Scotland, but jeez..A lot of Les Cats players sure, but why play the Australians when there are plenty of French players and and in addition to that, French players IN Les Cats...How the hell are the French going to move forward when a 1/3 of your team are Australian...!!

As a armchair coach, I reckon I could have got the French to the semis - even without Rinaldi..And I have included players with a prefix of NIOS - meaning Not in Original Squad

Therefore here is my team for the French in the RLWC..Feel free to dispute, discuss and dissect..civilly of course..

1. Constant Villegas - FB - Toulouse - NIOS
2. Younes Khattabi - Winger - Les Catalans - NIOS
3. Eric Anselme - Centre - Leeds
4. Cyril Stacul - Centre - Les Catalans - NIOS
5. Dimitri Pelo - Winger - Les Catalans
6. Thomas Bosc - 5/8 or FB - Les Catalans
7. Maxime Greseque - Halfback - PIA (But a HB you fools and ESL exp)
8. Remi Casty - Prop - Les Catalans
9. Julien Touxagas - Second Row - Les Catalans - NIOS (Out of position)
10. Jean-Christopher Borlin - Prop (St Gaudens)
11. Vincent Duport - Second Row - NIOS
12. Jamal Fakir - Second Rower - Les Catalans
13. Gregory Mounis - Lock - Les Catalans

14. Adel Fellous - Prop - Hull FC
15. Jerome Guisett - Prop - Les Catalans
16. Sebastion Raguin - Lock - Les Catalans
17. Renaud Guigue - Backline experience with Carpentras and Les Catalans.

Not so hard...

Some may have only Elite 1 experience, but most are in ESL or have PLAYED in ESL...

I think having ESL Props on the bench makes sense for strike purposes. Remi Casty would have handed the pressure fine. A lot of these guys played in front of 80,000 at Wembley in the 2007 Challenge Cup and made 3rd in the 2008 ESL...

FFS, France is so important to the game and we had a dodo in charge of their RLWC campaign..!!

 

[dubopov]

Bugger me .. I thought the French finished last because they are crap and have no heart. If they had the ticker of teams like PNG they may have finished 5th or so ..

 

[East Coast Tiger]

I agree they shouldn't have picked Aussies like Taylor but I think your squad is a bit all over the place. I think they should have picked Khattabi, Stacul, Duport and Touxagas, definitely. Dunno about a fullback - maybe Guigue, maybe Villegas, maybe the Carca fullback who seems to be pretty good (can't remember his name). Whether they would have gone better I don't know, but at least they would have been a proper French side. They certainly didn't pick their best side IMO and they certainly didn't pick the best coach for the job.

Having said that, first choice players like Mounis, Greseque and Anselme were very disappointing. Anselme can be excused because he was knocked out twice but there were some other performances that were pretty ordinary. Can't explain that except that maybe they weren't motivated - something that seems to happen with French sides. They are inconsistent and have been for years. That needs to change and I don't know how to do it. Potter seems to get more out of the Dragons (or did) but then he's got blokes like McGuire, Mogg and Greenshields as well.

Guisset was great for them, Fellous was good in the first game (and then inexplicably didn't play in the second) and Moly did a good job in several positions. The worst thing is these are all older players, as are Anselme and Rinaldi, and won't be around too much longer. Of the younger players Casty and Planas (in the one game he played) went alright. More was needed from Fakir, Mounis and Elima in the forwards and although Bosc went okay he and Greseque are both poor defenders and having both of them out there was a real disadvantage, especially when Greseque was also pretty ordinary in attack in the two games he played. There's definitely a lot of decent young players with potential in France. It's just getting them up to scratch in the next year or two that will be tricky.

By 2013 there should be two French SL teams and a lot of Frenchmen with SL experience one way or another and therefore they should have a bigger pool of full time pro players to choose from. With a good coach and less bad luck with injuries they should go better. Of course there's a 4N to worry about in the immediate future so they need to get cracking.

 

[Coastbloke]

Well, IMHO the French aren't going to get better if they keep choosing Australian players..

I'm not sure how my seleection was a 'bit out of place'..I had FRENCH players playing in their usual positions..I didn't have a Australian Centre playing F/B...

My H/B wasn't a Second Rower...!!!!

All I'm saying is that the French can't get better by hiding in the background whilst so called Coaches are playing French resident Australian's are in their positions...

I'd say they played sh*t because they were all over the place and were overly reliant on a few select players...

I truly believe if Monie had started with my team (Obviously Rinaldi would have started in the first game) they would have finished a lot higher than 10th..Surely language would have been a issue as well...??

 

[East Coast Tiger]

Well, IMHO the French aren't going to get better if they keep choosing Australian players..

I'm not sure how my seleection was a 'bit out of place'..I had FRENCH players playing in their usual positions..I didn't have a Australian Centre playing F/B...

My H/B wasn't a Second Rower...!!!!

All I'm saying is that the French can't get better by hiding in the background whilst so called Coaches are playing French resident Australian's are in their positions...

I'd say they played sh*t because they were all over the place and were overly reliant on a few select players...

I truly believe if Monie had started with my team (Obviously Rinaldi would have started in the first game) they would have finished a lot higher than 10th..Surely language would have been a issue as well...??

No, your team is all over the place because you have several players out of position and others on the bench who are among their best players. Guisset on the bench? Their captain? Duport is a centre and Anselme is a backrower yet you have them the other way around. And you say Moly is a second rower playing halfback but he actually plays halfback almost every week for Carcassonne and is pretty good there. Not that he would have played half for any other reason than the fact that Greseque, Wynne and Rinaldi were injured. And Touxagas is not a hooker yet there are plenty of hookers available like Rinaldi, Bentley and even Moly, who also played well there. I agree with you that they shouldn't pick the Aussies, but FFS don't put in for the French Test coaching job.

 

[pilmax]

Bugger me .. I thought the French finished last because they are crap and have no heart. If they had the ticker of teams like PNG they may have finished 5th or so ..

exact.

 

[Coastbloke]

No, your team is all over the place because you have several players out of position and others on the bench who are among their best players. Guisset on the bench? Their captain? Duport is a centre and Anselme is a backrower yet you have them the other way around. And you say Moly is a second rower playing halfback but he actually plays halfback almost every week for Carcassonne and is pretty good there. Not that he would have played half for any other reason than the fact that Greseque, Wynne and Rinaldi were injured. And Touxagas is not a hooker yet there are plenty of hookers available like Rinaldi, Bentley and even Moly, who also played well there. I agree with you that they shouldn't pick the Aussies, but FFS don't put in for the French Test coaching job.

Lol...If anyone can say that it's you ECT :lol: :lol:

What I am saying is that although I love hearing about the French game, I am not as well conversed in it as I'd like to be, so I would listen to what you say as well as a number of others on the French forum...

Would you list what your team would have been if you get a chance..??

Where would I get team listings for Elite 1 teams...??

 

[Evil Homer]

The French federation have said they're getting a Frenchman to coach the side to replace the sacked Monie, one who presumably won't pick 6th rate Aussies like Jared Taylor, who was just about France's worst player in the tournament.

 

[roopy]

The three teams who prepared best for the World cup were NZ, Fiji and PNG - and they were the teams that performed best.
Just about every other country had a half-arsed preparation, and they all played like it.
I actually thought both France and Samoa played their best football in the playoff for 9th and 10th, when their games finally started to gel.
Samoa would have finished 4th and France about 6th if they had both had 2 good hitouts before the cup started and spent a few weeks in camp.

 

[mt albert lions]

The French should quit RL and go play in the Federale RU leagues

 

[roopy]

The French should quit RL and go play in the Federale RU leagues

Excelling in International League may be very hard, but just giving up and going to the inferior code seems like an over reaction.

 

[mt albert lions]

says the man with 19,000 posts:lol:

 

[mt albert lions]

how many of the Bati aren't recreational rugby union players

 

[roopy]

How many of the Bati came from the inferior code? Serious question.

None of their NRL players - and you would assume all of their local players.
Fiji are in the unique position though that the main game they play is Union 7s, which is as close as you can come to playing League and still pretend you are playing Union, so they already have a very similar skillset to a RL player before they play the game and the transition seems pretty easy for them.
Most of the Fiji local players spent time playing League for country sides in Australia and took to the game like ducks to water.
A Fijian used to the individual tackling and running game of 7s is always going to find it a lot easier to change to League than say a South African or Argentinian forward who would have spent comparatively much less time working on League type skills, and far more time working on rucks, mauls, scrums and line outs.

 

[brendothejet]

The French should quit RL and go play in the Federale RU leagues

shut up polynesian warrior.

it doesn't matter what you call yourself you always the same old idiot.

 

[winnyason]

PW f**k off, this is not about you, get back to me to tell me how the mills and boon rugby novel goes while you sit there in your tartan jacket sucking on a pipe.

Onto more serious stuff many reasons why france failed
1. NRL and there lower tier leagues along with the nz bartercard are miles ahead of anything in the Nothern Hemiphere, it has to be questioned whether the inclusion of catalans and eventually toulouse in sl with help the national team, with so many kiwis or aussies in key positions of 1,6,7 and 9 look at catalans just bosc will be in a key postion this year.
2.The coach way past it, did not help the changing of a successful halves in gresque and rinaldi, then mixing the side with dud aussies and whinging about the standard of the game in france gives the players no confidence.
3.Picking the best side to me politics still plays a big role in league i remember mick aldous who picked the best side in his short time quoting this. How a dud like Saudoni keeps getting picked is astounding me, while duport is overlooked or sure he is a loose cannon but oliver charles was ahead of both stacul and khattabi in order at catalans before he went behind bars, he needs to get back in the side.

To the future........... I would think either Gllies dumas or Frassinous will get the coaching job, it really depends on how toulouse performs as to whether it is a full french squad or the likes of maguire, mogg and greensheilds feature.
No doubt the future of the test side will revolve around sabri,kane bentley and villegas with the likes of gresque, rinaldi and gussiet nearing the end there careers.

Here is how i see the quad series team:

1. Villegas(toulouse)
2. Charles(villenvue) 3. Duport(catalans) 4. Mogg(catalans) 5. Pelo(Catalans)
6. Bosc(Catalans) 7. Gresque(Pia)
13. Mounis(Catalans)
12.Esleme(toulouse) 11.Fakir(Catalans)
10. Ferriol(catalans) 9. Rinaldi(qld cup) 8. Gussiet (catalans)

Bench: 14. Griffi(Toulouse) 15. Sabri (Leeds?) 16.Gossard(catalans) 17. Fellous.

 

[Coastbloke]

Is Rinaldi in QLD Cup this year...??

 

[taipan]

The French should quit RL and go play in the Federale RU leagues

Why? To take a holiday playing union,like SBW did.;-)

 

[taipan]

how many of the Bati aren't recreational rugby union players

Union is at times a recreational and social event.

 

[marv]

PW f**k off, this is not about you, get back to me to tell me how the mills and boon rugby novel goes while you sit there in your tartan jacket sucking on a pipe.

Onto more serious stuff many reasons why france failed
1. NRL and there lower tier leagues along with the nz bartercard are miles ahead of anything in the Nothern Hemiphere, it has to be questioned whether the inclusion of catalans and eventually toulouse in sl with help the national team, with so many kiwis or aussies in key positions of 1,6,7 and 9 look at catalans just bosc will be in a key postion this year.
2.The coach way past it, did not help the changing of a successful halves in gresque and rinaldi, then mixing the side with dud aussies and whinging about the standard of the game in france gives the players no confidence.
3.Picking the best side to me politics still plays a big role in league i remember mick aldous who picked the best side in his short time quoting this. How a dud like Saudoni keeps getting picked is astounding me, while duport is overlooked or sure he is a loose cannon but oliver charles was ahead of both stacul and khattabi in order at catalans before he went behind bars, he needs to get back in the side.

To the future........... I would think either Gllies dumas or Frassinous will get the coaching job, it really depends on how toulouse performs as to whether it is a full french squad or the likes of maguire, mogg and greensheilds feature.
No doubt the future of the test side will revolve around sabri,kane bentley and villegas with the likes of gresque, rinaldi and gussiet nearing the end there careers.

Here is how i see the quad series team:

1. Villegas(toulouse)
2. Charles(villenvue) 3. Duport(catalans) 4. Mogg(catalans) 5. Pelo(Catalans)
6. Bosc(Catalans) 7. Gresque(Pia)
13. Mounis(Catalans)
12.Esleme(toulouse) 11.Fakir(Catalans)
10. Ferriol(catalans) 9. Rinaldi(qld cup) 8. Gussiet (catalans)

Bench: 14. Griffi(Toulouse) 15. Sabri (Leeds?) 16.Gossard(catalans) 17. Fellous.

I find it hilarious you have picked Villegas when Greensheilds is eligible next year and said he wants to play for France, what makes you think he is any better than Jarred Taylor was, after all they are both Wingers first and foremost.

thats without mentioning the fact you have picked a guy who has played less than 20 games in 2 years in Vincent Duport, there is a good reason why he didnt go to the WC if you had bothered to have a peek.