Another AFL wanker bagging out the great game

[Everlovin' Antichrist]

Half of those people aren't even playing in the AFL, EA,

Was Matty Johns?

Andrew Johns?

FFS, Steve Price?

If if they're worth stringing up, why aren't the AFL guys?

and many of the incidents involving those people didn't happen in 2010.

They're all from 2010.

What you're missing is that some of them are people who have offended more than once.

You're clutching at some straws there.

No, you don't know what you're talking about.

There's a difference.

Your point about the AFL having a lot of incidents is well taken though, as I continue to say in violent agreement with you all. I'm not arguing over who has more incidents.

No, you're saying we should use AFL as a blueprint to handling it.

Which is just plain rubbish.

Totting them all up to prove that one code is better than another is pretty dumb, and doesn't solve anything. All codes are affected by the curse of binge drinking. It's a constant battle that AFL, NRL, ARU, FFA, etc all have to deal with.

But one code is treated differently to the others, guess which one it is?

One code's incidents are newsworthy for weeks on end, guess which code it is?

That's what this thread is about.

The focus should be on what happens in the future, not playing the blame game. Rebuilding club culture to remove the reliance on sinking p1ss at team bonding sessions is the first priority. AFL clubs have taken some steps down that long road, but there are still stuff-ups like that disgraceful Carlton boat cruise last year. NRL clubs have barely started, from what I can see. I recall seeing some stuff about education sessions, shots of league players on plastic seats being lectured to by social workers, but obviously the message isn't getting through. Everyone needs to do more.

See, you did it again.

There is nothing in that code that we should copy, nothing.

We should copy crackhead central.... FFS...

 

[Goddo]

I think our problem is that the NRL has become increasingly weaker in terms of media and political clout, and this has had huge flow on effect in terms of public funds for infrastructure, the type of media exposure the game gets.

- politicians don't feel any duty to go into bat for the game, this contrasts with AFL where ex premiers become club CEO's. Also think of federal cabinet members. Kevin Rudd dancing through AFL hoops in Brisbane to buy votes in Melbourne. I get the feeling none of them genuinely follow the game.

- in terms of the media, the NRL has been screwed because of its partial News Corp ownership; Fairfax papers don't want to promote something controlled by a rival, similarily with Channel 10 & 7 vs PBL (ch 9, part owners of Foxtel) along with Telstra's conflicts of interest in ownership. A lot of this can be helped by establishing the IC.

The other thing that sh!ts me is melbourne centric media and Victorian comedians like Rove, Dave Hughes and so on always speaking with reverance about AFL and bagging the NRL, yet no one ever calls bullsh!t on their comments.

 

[Pete Cash]

The media refuses to challenge the narrative. People believe that RL players are all thuggish criminals who prowl the streets of Sydney raping all women they come across and they believe that AFL players are angels who take their mums to the game and cuddle small children and animals.

So the media will report that because if there is anything the media exists for is reenforcing what people believe. There are countless worse examples out there because at the end of the day RL is just a sport but its a pretty obvious one.

 

[Brutus]

I think our problem is that the NRL has become increasingly weaker in terms of media and political clout, and this has had huge flow on effect in terms of public funds for infrastructure, the type of media exposure the game gets.

- politicians don't feel any duty to go into bat for the game, this contrasts with AFL where ex premiers become club CEO's. Also think of federal cabinet members. Kevin Rudd dancing through AFL hoops in Brisbane to buy votes in Melbourne. I get the feeling none of them genuinely follow the game.

- in terms of the media, the NRL has been screwed because of its partial News Corp ownership; Fairfax papers don't want to promote something controlled by a rival, similarily with Channel 10 & 7 vs PBL (ch 9, part owners of Foxtel) along with Telstra's conflicts of interest in ownership. A lot of this can be helped by establishing the IC.

The other thing that sh!ts me is melbourne centric media and Victorian comedians like Rove, Dave Hughes and so on always speaking with reverance about AFL and bagging the NRL, yet no one ever calls bullsh!t on their comments.

Some very good points made in this post.

 

[m0nty]

You know what you should do, EA: get all of this juicy stuff that you have collected over the course of the year and write an article for one of the News Limited publications. Even if it's only The Punch - which would probably love you and publish without touching it, especially if you frame it as an anti-ABC or anti-Fairfax thing - there's a yarn in what you've researched, and it's a solid story worth telling.

Back on your specific arguments... it's not a matter of copying the AFL. They didn't think this stuff up, it's not their creation. The AFL asked the experts in to tell them what they should do, and they're muddling their way through implementing it, for better or worse. The NRL has done some of the same stuff, in that they got in some people in to lecture their players about proper behaviour, but that is obviously not working.

There is a big cultural shift going on in the AFL based on empowering players to take control of and change the culture of their footy clubs. In fact, EA, I would argue that it's you who is the ignorant one in this discussion, because you haven't shown any knowledge of what AFL clubs have been doing in the area of leadership groups, which is the only new initiative that any of the codes have undertaken that has had any effect on the binge drinking problem. The process has been going on for a number of years now, and has had some good and bad results. While the phenomenon of empowering senior players to set an example for the younger players has led to good things like toning down of things like Mad Monday and nullification of previously beer-filled club functions, there have also been counter-productive consequences, like the Jason Akermanis saga this year which was driven by the Bulldogs leadership group employing massive peer pressure on an individual, or the fact that the Geelong players were so empowered that their coach couldn't actually get them to change their style of play to take into account new tactics by opposition clubs.

I'm not saying that rugby league should copy Australian rules. The AFL is running a social experiment at the moment, effectively, and the results are still up in the air. I would hope you agree, though, that there has to be something found to break the cycle of binge drinking in the NRL, whatever form that might take.

 

[El Diablo]

our problem is RL journos. Ricketts wrote about some of them

Some of it has to do with the willingness of "the general public" to convey even the most trivial of things to an insatiable media.

One Sydney paper even has a daily "Eyespy" column with riveting pieces of information like: "Des Hasler: Spotted walking along the Corso."

At Terrigal leading up to Origin II, the Queensland players had a night out to celebrate the birthdays of Billy Slater and Cameron Smith, and finished up in the same bar as members of the travelling media, including yours truly.

None of us witnessed anything which warranted a story, but we woke two days later to "Drunken Maroons" headlines in a local paper.

It seems a passer-by saw the players outside the bar and phoned 000 to report an incident, which the police investigated before finding nothing untoward had happened.

My love for the game hasn't stopped me writing "negative" stories when required, whether they are to do with off-field incidents, attendances, refereeing or administration.

I'm not going to defend every "journo" covering the game, or bag them either, whatever their motives or preferences when it comes to sport.

There are one or two I have met who would defect to union as quickly as Sonny Bill Williams if it looked like becoming the No. 1 sport.

I must confess to feeling uncomfortable when some scribes - very few I might add - have reacted with joy after learning of another so-called league atrocity.

It is one thing to report things faithfully and to get satisfaction from a job well done. It is another to get a high from the code's misfortune.

dead link http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,25720183-10389,00.html

 

[Green Machine]

Pooing in public and engaging in a sex act with a dog is a whole different level. Not to mention organised drug trafficking.

Not for me to defend the Roosters, but as disgusting act such as Nate Myles’, getting locked out of his room and sh*tting in a stairwell is nowhere in the same class as an AFL player being in the same room as a minor dieing of a drug OD or a player paying hush money to women to make a rape charge go away. Not even a simulation sex with a dog comes close. As for Danny Wicks, he has been thrown out of the NRL. It would be interesting to know what the connection was between Ben Cousins and his outlaw bikie gang friends.

This is all true. As I said in agreement, it's a double standard.



I'm talking here about team captains and whatever passes for leadership groups at rugby league teams - "senior players", whatever. Many of these incidients have arisen from official club functions where the senior players are often the ones doing the most drinking and getting into trouble themselves. This is not a culture that is unique to rugby league, but it needs to be stamped out of this and other codes, because it so often leads to stupid, preventable incidents.

Young people getting out and having a drink will never stop. No sport will ever get to the stage where they will become incident free. The AFL does window dressing better than most sports. Then again, they also have a very helpful media

I just got through telling you that no one is lilywhite, they're all bad.

I know you did. I’m just telling you that the AFL is no better behaved than the NRL. I would say the NRL is a bit better behaved because the NRL is under more scrutiny. Imagine Peter Fitzsimons running a column in the Age every Saturday criticising the AFL and its fans for off field behaviour. Would he last a week? How long would Rebecca Wilson last if she gave it the the AFL each week in the Herald Sun?

There's no pride to be gained in saying one is better than the other, it's like saying one banker is less evil than another. There are still many incidents in the AFL, even after the advent of all this leadership group and Leading Teams bulltish.

Its just window dressing Monty

It's an ongoing problem for every code. Rugby league is lagging in dealing with it though, that's my only point.

Opinions are like arseholes Monty. Everyone has got one. Years ago we had heaps repeat offenders in Rugby League. We don’t have that many now. Players will stray off the track. 20 years ago most players drank. A lot of them don’t drink at all these days.

Gallop knows all this, which is why he made it known through media circles that he was livid that he wasn't allowed to deregister Monaghan and instead had to wait for the club to dilly-dally, do rock all for days and eventually let the player take responsibility.

Gallop says the same thing every time there is an off field incident. Gallop is the worst CEO in Australian sport. Gallop cares more what the Telegraph and the shock jocks think.

If it was the NFL, commissioner Goodell would have sole responsibility for handing out punishments.

Now, isn’t that great organisation for disciplining player off field behaviour? Hasn’t it had a great track record over the last 20 years?

Now, that system may not work for rugby league of course, but it would have been better than the p1ssweak silence by the Raiders last week. But I guess I'm getting off topic.

Piss weak silence? Go f**k yourself. I’m glad they took their time and come to the right decision. I prefer they show due process instead of conducting a kangaroo court. Then again, they could have swept under the carpet like a lot of incidents in the AFL,

 

[Green Machine]

Double post

 

[Everlovin' Antichrist]

You know what you should do, EA: get all of this juicy stuff that you have collected over the course of the year and write an article for one of the News Limited publications. Even if it's only The Punch - which would probably love you and publish without touching it, especially if you frame it as an anti-ABC or anti-Fairfax thing - there's a yarn in what you've researched, and it's a solid story worth telling.

Why?

They wouldn't touch it with a barge pole and I'm not a paid Rugby League journalist.

Why not ask yourself why our so-called "Rugby League journalists" haven't done it?

Back on your specific arguments... it's not a matter of copying the AFL. They didn't think this stuff up, it's not their creation. The AFL asked the experts in to tell them what they should do, and they're muddling their way through implementing it, for better or worse. The NRL has done some of the same stuff, in that they got in some people in to lecture their players about proper behaviour, but that is obviously not working.

I'll say it again.

There is nothing we can learn from the AFL on this subject. Having spent the last 7 or 8 years reading each and every article on both sides thanks to a couple of TFC posters, there is absolutely nothing we can learn from AFL.

We can learn from them on how to handle it media-wise, but that's about it. IF there's one thing we need to get better at, it's how to turn a story, no matter how big, into a non-story like the AFL can.

I'm sure it wouldn't come cheap though.

There is a big cultural shift going on in the AFL based on empowering players to take control of and change the culture of their footy clubs.

I couldn't care less what they're doing.

The list of incidents in the past 1/2 a decade is long enough for me to know that whatever they're using/have used/trying now hasn't worked/ isn't working so why bother to avail yourself of a system that is obviously very, very flawed?

In fact, EA, I would argue that it's you who is the ignorant one in this discussion, because you haven't shown any knowledge of what AFL clubs have been doing in the area of leadership groups, which is the only new initiative that any of the codes have undertaken that has had any effect on the binge drinking problem.

You keep saying it yet the evidence cleary shows that whatever they're doing isn't working. The list of incidents is increasing, not decreasing.

What part of that statement is troubling you?

The process has been going on for a number of years now, and has had some good and bad results.

The list of bad results is increasing. Why do I have to keep repeating myself?

FFS...

While the phenomenon of empowering senior players to set an example for the younger players has led to good things like toning down of things like Mad Monday and nullification of previously beer-filled club functions, there have also been counter-productive consequences, like the Jason Akermanis saga this year which was driven by the Bulldogs leadership group employing massive peer pressure on an individual, or the fact that the Geelong players were so empowered that their coach couldn't actually get them to change their style of play to take into account new tactics by opposition clubs.

Drivel. Pure unadulterated drivel.

Phenomenon of empowering senior players?

LOL

What the f**k is wrong with you. Oh right, you're an AFL fan, sorry.

I'm not saying that rugby league should copy Australian rules. The AFL is running a social experiment at the moment, effectively, and the results are still up in the air. I would hope you agree, though, that there has to be something found to break the cycle of binge drinking in the NRL, whatever form that might take.

Social experiment?

LOL

The AFL results aren't up in their air, they're on the ground with a good portion of their players.

Whatever we need to do, it has nothing to do with anything the AFL are doing and we should not allow anything they're trying to seep into our thinking.

They aren't a code that any other code should aspire to ape in this area.

 

[Green Machine]

NRL clubs have barely started, from what I can see. I recall seeing some stuff about education sessions, shots of league players on plastic seats being lectured to by social workers, but obviously the message isn't getting through. Everyone needs to do more.

If you are talking about the recent 4 Corners program, one of the people conducting the lecture was ex-player and employee of the NRL Nigel Vagana. Its something they do every year with Toyota Cup players. Sorry to let the truth get in the way of a good story,

 

[Everlovin' Antichrist]

If you are talking about the recent 4 Corners program, one of the people conducting the lecture was ex-player and employee of the NRL Nigel Vagana. Its something they do every year with Toyota Cup players. Sorry to let the truth get in the way of a good story,

I remember that, was interesting.

Of course Monty didn't recognise Vagana, but I'll bet he'd recognise Jason Akermanis...

 

[Flapper]

Which one was charged with rape? Andrew Lovett.

What's worse; a prank with a mate's pet or rape?

I eagerly await sportive's answer to this. Let's see if the untouchable AFL rapist can be defended.

 

[m0nty]

Not for me to defend the Roosters, but as disgusting act such as Nate Myles’, getting locked out of his room and sh*tting in a stairwell is nowhere in the same class as an AFL player being in the same room as a minor dieing of a drug OD or a player paying hush money to women to make a rape charge go away. Not even a simulation sex with a dog comes close. As for Danny Wicks, he has been thrown out of the NRL. It would be interesting to know what the connection was between Ben Cousins and his outlaw bikie gang friends.

Young people getting out and having a drink will never stop. No sport will ever get to the stage where they will become incident free. The AFL does window dressing better than most sports. Then again, they also have a very helpful media

I know you did. I’m just telling you that the AFL is no better behaved than the NRL. I would say the NRL is a bit better behaved because the NRL is under more scrutiny. Imagine Peter Fitzsimons running a column in the Age every Saturday criticising the AFL and its fans for off field behaviour. Would he last a week? How long would Rebecca Wilson last if she gave it the the AFL each week in the Herald Sun?

Its just window dressing Monty

Opinions are like arseholes Monty. Everyone has got one. Years ago we had heaps repeat offenders in Rugby League. We don’t have that many now. Players will stray off the track. 20 years ago most players drank. A lot of them don’t drink at all these days.

Gallop says the same thing every time there is an off field incident. Gallop is the worst CEO in Australian sport. Gallop cares more what the Telegraph and the shock jocks think.

Now, isn’t that great organisation for disciplining player off field behaviour? Hasn’t it had a great track record over the last 20 years?

Piss weak silence? Go f**k yourself. I’m glad they took their time and come to the right decision. I prefer they show due process instead of conducting a kangaroo court. Then again, they could have swept under the carpet like a lot of incidents in the AFL,

The previous paragraphs are fair enough, but correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Monaghan quit before the board sacked him? That is what I was talking about. The board made no decision. The story broke early on a Friday, the board did nothing over the weekend and Monaghan quit on the Monday, as I recall. I know we all have lives, but couldn't they have had a phone hook-up or something, it's not as if it was a hard decision to make. That was p1ssweak.

 

[m0nty]

EA: if you're not prepared to do the sort of thing that RL1908 has done, with excellent results, then you're not backing yourself. I lived for long enough in Sydney to know that that's the worst thing you can do. You have to back yourself, I was often told, because no one else is going to do it for you. What's the point of doing all this research if all you're doing it for is to use it as a weapon in a little-read Internet forum? Insulting me might make you feel good but it's not going to accomplish anything.

This thread is about how the media treats rugby league like crap. You have the power to change that. You can make something happen.

 

[madunit]

How? By buying news Ltd, sacking all their staff and hiring new staff who are bound by strict guidelines to rubbish AFL and turn a blind eye to anything negative in the NRL?

 

[WaznTheGreat]

You little girly men are always bagging AFL and union but when somebody bags league you all start crying:lol:


:lol:Can dish it out but can't take it:lol:

 

[AlwaysGreen]

The previous paragraphs are fair enough, but correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Monaghan quit before the board sacked him? That is what I was talking about. The board made no decision. The story broke early on a Friday, the board did nothing over the weekend and Monaghan quit on the Monday, as I recall. I know we all have lives, but couldn't they have had a phone hook-up or something, it's not as if it was a hard decision to make. That was p1ssweak.

The board were set to make a decision on Monday, when they met in a formal manner. How do you know that the board didn't have contact over the weekend to discuss it, obviously there was some contact to arrange the formal meeting. Monaghan made the decision to walk. Again, there must have been some form of contact to hold off the meeting to give Monaghan the decision to announce his departure. The board did not need to make a decision as the player did before them. Whether they would have sacked Monaghan is open to conjecture but in my opinion, based on what I have read, Monaghan would have been sacked.

 

[sportive cupid]

not the first time she's ventured to the NRL forum to bag RL and stick up for AFL. that is the sport she follows

Well you got that bit right ED.But I ventured on to this RL forum because I have a long history as a Parra Supporter (you should know this from the old EELs official forum days .(My name was different there).

I remember Cumberland oval.But I don't have the same feelings these days.

 

[elbusto]

Well you got that bit right ED.But I ventured on to this RL forum because I have a long history as a Parra Supporter (you should know this from the old EELs official forum days .(My name was different there).

I remember Cumberland oval.But I don't have the same feelings these days.

Care Factor Zero!

 

[Everlovin' Antichrist]

EA: if you're not prepared to do the sort of thing that RL1908 has done, with excellent results, then you're not backing yourself. I lived for long enough in Sydney to know that that's the worst thing you can do. You have to back yourself, I was often told, because no one else is going to do it for you. What's the point of doing all this research if all you're doing it for is to use it as a weapon in a little-read Internet forum? Insulting me might make you feel good but it's not going to accomplish anything.

This thread is about how the media treats rugby league like crap. You have the power to change that. You can make something happen.

errr, RL1908 is a journalist and an author, he is also a Rugby League historian and a fan of the game.

I am a fan only. The "research" as you call it is available for anyone to read already.

Why would repeating it change the mind of people who already avoid it?

Please don't whine about insults, any thread on the NRL board with the acronym AFL in it is a thread that is going to have TFC style discussions.