The Tinkler thread

[Danish Moo Cow]

Some people are just blinded by dollar signs...

Truth is he wanted everyone to think how awful it all is now so he can be the hero and save us all. He'll probably even soap drama it all and fly in at the last minute to save the day with a sensible solution to everything and make it look like he has Burro and Tew bent over the front row of the new grandstand.

Simple people love that rubbish.

 

[Newie is God's Country]

How on earth do you think Tew would get away with bare faced lying about what documents say?

It's interpretation though isn't it. You are probably right but the question can still be asked.

 

[perverse]

yeah. possibly DMC. i wouldn't be surprised if he's a few steps ahead. classic government tactics for implementing policy... create a problem to implement your solution. i don't see why it's necessary in this case... but hey this is all strange enough that i would believe just about anything. at least the Knights arn't saying "we have major issues with this, and we don't see how we can proceed, etc etc". their public story is, at least, that we can iron out these kinks and get this done. the fact of the matter is, though, that they are major issues, particularly when Tinkler is breathing fire to expidite the process.

 

[Serc]

I hope these key points get into the papers tomorrow to educate the masses...in particular I am very interested to see the Herald's reporting on this.

Not that this is the world's greatest yardstick...but the comments on the Knights fb page for this article are significantly changed from the constant "hurry up Burro/Tew and get it over with" that are posted on any article linked to their page in recent months.

 

[Newie is God's Country]

yeah. possibly DMC. i wouldn't be surprised if he's a few steps ahead. classic government tactics for implementing policy... create a problem to implement your solution. i don't see why it's necessary in this case... but hey this is all strange enough that i would believe just about anything. at least the Knights arn't saying "we have major issues with this, and we don't see how we can proceed, etc etc". their public story is, at least, that we can iron out these kinks and get this done. the fact of the matter is, though, that they are major issues, particularly when Tinkler is breathing fire to expidite the process.

Maybe tinkler's urgency comes from the fact he has put big offers for Idris and snowden with more to follow on the premise his ownership is a done deal. Ennis is next if u believe the papers. Isn't it ironic tew has asked for a commitment to jnr development when clearly tinks is buying back the farm or at least trying to.

 

[Spot On]

Maybe tinkler's urgency comes from the fact he has put big offers for Idris and snowden with more to follow on the premise his ownership is a done deal. Ennis is next if u believe the papers. Isn't it ironic tew has asked for a commitment to jnr development when clearly tinks is buying back the farm or at least trying to.

Haven't the club initiated that one as well.

 

[perverse]

Maybe tinkler's urgency comes from the fact he has put big offers for Idris and snowden with more to follow on the premise his ownership is a done deal. Ennis is next if u believe the papers. Isn't it ironic tew has asked for a commitment to jnr development when clearly tinks is buying back the farm or at least trying to.

i think it's ironic that Tinkler is trying to buy back the farm when not writing a commitment to the juniors into the proposal, not the other way around as you have described it. i know who the hypocrite looks to be in the situation, and it isn't Rob Tew or Steve Burraston. all they are asking is he sticks to his word. i suppose his story will be "i thought it just went without saying" or some such.

i also think he's playing dangerous games making offers, when you would have to wonder how he is privvy to the intimate financial details on how our contracts are modelled under the cap to know he has the ability to make said offers. 3rd party deals only go so far, and he's already chucked over 700k a year at Snowy and Idris, with rumours he's throwing cash at Ennis too.

 

[macavity]

It's interpretation though isn't it. You are probably right but the question can still be asked.

huh?

the documents prepared by Tinkler and provided to the club either accurately reflect the offer, or they don't.

 

[roopy]

Let me play devil's advocate.

1/ He isn't wanting control of the club so he can sit on it and see it go badly.

2/ The club is currently worth minus 3 million or so.

3/ He wants junior development - loves the idea in fact.

In short - it might be a wild ride and we don't know where it's going, but we have nothing to lose, and a lot to gain.

 

[Newie is God's Country]

huh?

the documents prepared by Tinkler and provided to the club either accurately reflect the offer, or they don't.

Ok.

 

[Alex28]

The details that the board have raised are VASTLY different to the details that have been detailed to the members through the media. The change being the $10 Million coming from sponsorship and ticketing is ridiculous - if that is ticketing revenue then we would crack that already. The lack of commitment to junior development is just crazy. The lack of anything enforcing Tinkler to pay a cent...

Coastbloke - THIS IS WHY THERE NEEDS TO BE DUE DILIGENCE!

Right now...if Tinkler says take it or leave it, I'm voting no, and it won't get through.

 

[KempoKnight]

Let me play devil's advocate.

1/ He isn't wanting control of the club so he can sit on it and see it go badly.

2/ The club is currently worth minus 3 million or so.

3/ He wants junior development - loves the idea in fact.

In short - it might be a wild ride and we don't know where it's going, but we have nothing to lose, and a lot to gain.

Thats the truth right there, Id prefer the roller coaster ride of Tinkler's agressive style then the roller coaster ride of constant debt and dissapointment that we cant attract top players etc.

 

[Alex28]

Thats the truth right there, Id prefer the roller coaster ride of Tinkler's agressive style then the roller coaster ride of constant debt and dissapointment that we cant attract top players etc.

You know what? Under that agreement (on the basis of what Tew has said to the members tonight) if Tinky decides that he is tired of his Knights plaything and he doesn't want to put any cash in - even though we would most likely lose Coal & Allied as a sponsorship under private ownership - he doesn't have to. There is nothing enforcing him to as well.

In the 2009 financials this is what we got:

Sponsorship - $6,544,018
Stadium - Corporate - $2,632,988
Stadium - Ticketing - $2,834,423
Total - $12,011,429

Deduct the Million or so that C&A pays - it means he has to pay NOTHING even if we lost our major sponsor.

So...under the agreement currently put to the club...we can be $2,000,000 worse off in turnover and Tinkler doesn't have to put in a cent.

Great deal. Will be a hell of a ride not being able to spend the salary cap, let alone the wild fantasies that have been dreamed about this week.

 

[perverse]

hmm those numbers are obscene. gate takings, at the very least, should not be included. i'm in 2 minds on the corporate hospitality.

or, alternatively, including those values and upping the $10mill figure per year is also an acceptable solution. gives him incentive to build the club on all fronts.

 

[Alex28]

Sponsorship and Corporate Hospitality means he puts in under $1,000,000 per year.

Not enough to give away the farm mate.

Up sponsorship to $10 Million as stated in the paper then it is a deal.

 

[perverse]

i'm not too much worried about what he's putting in, i'm worried about where the ceiling of incentive is for Tinkler to improve the club.

i don't care if he's not putting a cent into the club, if the club is earning $15+mill on those same figures in a year or 2's time... if you get what i'm saying. i'm all for him not paying anything if he's good enough, but he has to earn it, not just walk in and have it.

the value of this deal cannot just be measured in the dollars that come directly out of his pockets and into club coffers. it's more complex than that.

 

[perverse]

also consider that our running costs will be drastically reduced by unifying a lot of the Knights and Jets operations, stream-lining facilities, etc.

 

[Alex28]

Mate - the thing is we are turning over that sort of cash and NOT MAKING A PROFIT. What is being promised now is nowhere near what was originally stated. You are right in saying that if he is good enough he wont have to put any cash in. Under this proposal he could be incredibly incompetent and still not have to put any cash in.

I would care about what we are turning over and how much he is putting in. It is entirely essential to the clubs future and ability to operate in the future.

Plus, who says he is definitely going to merge the Knights/Jets admin? Where does it say this?

The thing is all that was promised in the Herald articles at this stage are a lie. I just want what was promised in exchange for ownership of the club.

 

[perverse]

Mate - the thing is we are turning over that sort of cash and NOT MAKING A PROFIT. What is being promised now is nowhere near what was originally stated. You are right in saying that if he is good enough he wont have to put any cash in. Under this proposal he could be incredibly incompetent and still not have to put any cash in.

I would care about what we are turning over and how much he is putting in. It is entirely essential to the clubs future and ability to operate in the future.

Plus, who says he is definitely going to merge the Knights/Jets admin? Where does it say this?

The thing is all that was promised in the Herald articles at this stage are a lie. I just want what was promised in exchange for ownership of the club.

um... i totally agree with you, hence my criticism of the current proposal as it stands over the preceeding pages of this thread. my point is that the amount of money that ends up exiting his pocket is irrelevant. what is relevant is how much he can increase our income.

and i agree, i just want what he promised in the papers. no arguments here.

 

[Serc]

Statement from the Tinkler Sports Group

The Tinkler Sports Group would like to thank the Newcastle Knights Board for providing feedback on its proposal. Media outlets received this release at approximately 4.30pm today, yet the Tinkler Sports Group is still to receive a copy from the Knights.

The Newcastle Knights media release refers to the Tinkler Sports Group being provided today with detailed comments on the documents, which we have also not received. We are therefore at a loss to understand the various statements made by the Newcastle Knights Board in its media release. The Tinkler Sports Group is confident that the key platforms of its offer are very much intact and are fully enshrined in the considerable documentation negotiated over the last month and presented to the Knights last Wednesday.

To recap, we reconfirm that our offer:

Is for a 10 year period.
Allows for a minimum $100 million in sponsorship and hospitality revenues across the term
It does extinguish Club debt – which could be more than $4 million
It is not for profit – all profits ploughed back in to the Club
All heritage rights are protected
Further we are also pleased to commit today to a minimum $1 million per annum + CPI spend in Junior Development but have withdrawn our offer to agree to a buyback for the Club in certain circumstances
It is not feasible to provide certainty in every possible risk assessment. The Tinkler Sports Group strongly supports the current Board’s position to identify the risks, if any, for Members.

It would appear that the Newcastle Knights Board may not understand the offer as tabled and documented, or it may be a risky commercial tactic.

As the Knights have previously and publicly stated, this is the biggest decision in the Club’s history - yet in our view it would appear that they may have failed to provide the resources necessary to get this job done.

The Tinkler Sports Group also highlights its frustration that after more than a month of negotiation that the Newcastle Knights Board has yet to present all requested due diligence materials and have not honoured an agreement to consult in relation to key commitments regarding player contracts and sponsorship agreements.

The Tinkler Sports Group is determined to reach a positive outcome which will provide security and a strong financial future that will make the Newcastle Knights and rugby league in the Region, the envy of the NRL.

http://images.smh.com.au/file/2011/...e Tinkler Sports Group.pdf?rand=1298200121052

Linked in the article to follow: