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iSelect Gold Coast Titans granted new license

BunniesMan

Immortal
Messages
33,789
Put 2 and 2 together. The debt is intertwined. It's been confirmed Searle is lying or delusional, the debt is not limited to the property arm.

The ARLC is even discussing the event of the Titans folding and putting a new club there. They wouldn't be doing that if the problem was that minor.
 

El Diablo

Post Whore
Messages
94,107
Put 2 and 2 together. The debt is intertwined. It's been confirmed Searle is lying or delusional, the debt is not limited to the property arm.

The ARLC is even discussing the event of the Titans folding and putting a new club there. They wouldn't be doing that if the problem was that minor.

nobody knows what they're discussing

all media speculation with no names or quotes
 

BunniesMan

Immortal
Messages
33,789
nobody knows what they're discussing

all media speculation with no names or quotes
''We have received reports from our external accountants today that confirm the whole structure at the Titans is under considerable financial stress,'' ARLC chief executive David Gallop said in a statement.
There's a quote and a name saying the debt goes beyond just the property arm.

So that is proof Searle was lying/delusional when he said the problems were limited to the property arm.

The debt is bigger than how much the CoE is worth. It's intertwined with the club itself.

The judge didn't say that in so many words but you get that meaning by putting 2 and 2 together.
 
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joshreading

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
1,720
There's a quote and a name saying the debt goes beyond just the property arm.

So that is proof....

... of what? The proof outlaid here is what we already know. The PROPERTY ARM IS IN SERIOUS Debt. We all agree. We also have been told clearly the FOOTBALL Club is subsidising the Property Arm to the tune of 1.5 million. Clearly the Club is under 'considerable financial stress'. That does however not mean the Club itself is insolvent, nor does it mean that IT has debts that it cannot manage.

Don't interpret what is not there. YES, the debts of the Property Arm put the Club at risk but it is not the same thing. If Souths Leagues Club and other operations went under, that won't take the club if managed well BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT THE SAME BUSINESS.
 

The AXXXMAN

Guest
Messages
67
And LA is the second largest (IIRC) city in the states yet their biggest code doesnt have a club there, because there is no demand.
Bullshit. You're talking out of your arse just to prop up your Bears agenda.

There is huge supporter demand for a pro football team in the LA metro area. The issue is the lack of a suitable stadium which can cater for corporate facilities. The rose bowl and coliseum are used by college teams UCLA & USC respectively, but they are old arenas which a pro team would struggle to generate revenue from. The city as well the state of california have been largely against funding a new stadium for private owners, particularly in recent economic times in the US and the problems within California itself. The pro bay area teams - niners & raiders - have had their issues with stadia too.

It's simply shown over 25 years that it isnt a particularly strong sporting region. Wouldnt you think after 4-5 club have failed ina region simply putting another one in there (as the ARLC have implied they will if the Tits fall over) would simply be not learning from the numerous mistakes the NRL/ARL/NSWRL has made in the past
The early GC league teams were affected by clauses preventing teams there playing on the gold coast due to the broncos. Then they went thru private ownership which generally never works in Australian sport. The NRL should've controlled the entry of the Titans into GC, not left foundation decisions and investments to one person. The AFL learnt from their previous errors. The NRL have f**ked up again........4 times!
 

The AXXXMAN

Guest
Messages
67
... of what? The proof outlaid here is what we already know. The PROPERTY ARM IS IN SERIOUS Debt. We all agree. We also have been told clearly the FOOTBALL Club is subsidising the Property Arm to the tune of 1.5 million. Clearly the Club is under 'considerable financial stress'. That does however not mean the Club itself is insolvent, nor does it mean that IT has debts that it cannot manage.

Don't interpret what is not there. YES, the debts of the Property Arm put the Club at risk but it is not the same thing. If Souths Leagues Club and other operations went under, that won't take the club if managed well BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT THE SAME BUSINESS.

Does anyone know how the property debts are being serviced?
 

Alex28

Coach
Messages
12,271
bullshit

they are separate to the club
I would just about guarantee that the football club would guarantee the debts of the property arm, so I would suggest if one part goes down, the whole lot will go. CBA and Westpac will eventually make sure of it.

So they really aren't that separate...
 

M2D2

Bench
Messages
4,693
Ssssh. Were not allowed to say anything bad against the titans and their shifty operations.
 

Brutus

Referee
Messages
26,470
Well if the gold coast are turfed out(i don't think they will be) then stadiums QLD will have no tennant at skilled park. Serves the f**kwits right. Stadium hiring costs are a joke.
 

beave

Coach
Messages
15,759
this article came out about 1.5 hours ago

http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport...-facie-insolvent/story-e6frep5x-1226308221024



THE Titans have been dealt another blow with the club's property arm facing bankruptcy proceedings after its legal team admitted there was a prima facie case that the Gold Coast property group is insolvent.

As it emerged debts on the Titans group of companies has blown out to $35 million, the club suffered a further setback when a Federal Court judge today supported Reed Constructions' claim to replace the Australian Tax Office in wind-up proceedings against the Gold Coast Titans (Property) Pty Ltd.

The property arm of the Titans rugby league club will now face a bankruptcy application next month after a judge ruled one its creditors, Reed, to be a new plaintiff.

Reed Constructions' can now move to liquidate the Titans' property arm at the next court hearing on April 20 - effectively giving the Titans property group less than 30 days to prove their solvency and avert collapse.

The legal bodyblow means the building firm will now seek $1.046m from the Titans' property arm, placing further strain on the Gold Coast empire, which has bled more than $35m and is currently being audited by external accountants on the behalf of the Australian Rugby League Commission.
The Australian Tax Office had applied to wind up the Gold Coast Titans (Property) Pty Ltd earlier this month but asked for leave to withdraw after coming to an arrangement with the company to pay outstanding tax.

However, Reed Constructions Australia which claims it is owned more than $1million for work done on the Centre of Excellence and interest, then asked to be substituted as the plaintiff in the winding up application.

The matter was listed before Federal Court Registrar Heather Baldwin today, but was then sent to Justice John Reeves for determination in a hearing.

The court heard in a deed signed by the parties last August it was agreed Reed was owed $943,858 for work done.

It also claimed to be owed in excess of $100,000 in interest.

Solicitor Brent Turnbull, for Reed, said the argument was on a narrow issue of whether his client was a creditor of Titans Property under the relevant section of Corporations Act.

He said it was also argued on behalf of Reed that because Titans Property had not paid the Tax Office it was on the face of it insolvent and as a creditor Reed had a right to being wind up proceedings.

Solicitor Ashley Tiplady, for Titans Property, said his clients admitted there was a prima face case they were insolvent but Reed had no right to be subsituted as a plaintiff in bankruptcy proceedings because it was not a creditor but rather a prospective creditor.

He said in the deed signed last August there was no mention of the amount of money to be repaid in monthly instalments.

Therefore a "vacuum" existed on what the debt was and how much was owing.

Justice Reeves ruled in Reed's favour and ordered they be substituted as plaintiff in the bankruptcy action.

He found Reed was a creditor and there was a prima face case that Titans property was insolvent.

Justice Reeves set the matter down for hearing before a registrar on April 20.

He also gave the ATO the right to withdraw and ordered Titans Property pay its costs.

A further order was made that advertisment for the winding up application be taken out.

Legal representatives for the Titans argued that Reed Constructions should not be permitted to commence wind-up proceedings as they were only a prospective creditor.

But Judge Reeves ruled in favour of Reed Constructions, paving the way for the construction giant to seek $943,858 for money owed on the Centre of Excellence project.

In a worrying sign for the Titans' property arm, their legal representatives did not dispute that money was owing, but rather the precise amount and the specified period in which the debts must be settled.

The collapse of the property arm would be a massive blow to the Titans, who are in danger of being stripped of their NRL licence as external auditors discovered millions of dollars in hidden debt in the football club.

The auditing team, which has been putting the Titans' fiscal health under the microscope, also discovered that the debts incurred on various arms of the group's business operations are "intertwined".

The explosive discoveries are at odds with the sentiments of Titans boss Michael Searle, who has assured Gold Coast fans that the issues confronting the club's property arm have no repercussions for the NRL outfit.

It is understood the external accountants discovered the football club was in millions of dollars of debt to suppliers, including those that provide merchandise, catering and ground hiring.

The level of debt is unprecedented in NRL history _ and now the blowout threatens to get worse following the Federal Court ruling.

NRL boss David Gallop said he is determined to keep the Titans afloat but conceded there are serious financial concerns engulfing the club's entire operations.

"We received reports from our external accountants (yesterday) that confirm the whole structure at the Titans is under considerable financial stress," he said.

"We are working through the options around that but there needs to be an acceptance that the various arms of the group's business are intertwined in terms of the level of debt and that will have ramifications as future options are explored.

"The game's clear goal is to maintain a viable football club at the Titans.

"The issues around the building are creating an alarming diversion from what would otherwise be a successful expansion of our game into an important area."
 

BunniesMan

Immortal
Messages
33,789
I would just about guarantee that the football club would guarantee the debts of the property arm, so I would suggest if one part goes down, the whole lot will go. CBA and Westpac will eventually make sure of it.

So they really aren't that separate...
Rational and sensible opinion aren't welcome here.

Some LU posters prefer to think we're in some kind of magical fairy land where the banks and other creditors will not go after every part of the joint to get their many back.

The ARLC discussion about the possibility of a new club being put there is not being made because the Titans have a minor issue. Too many on LU think this is meaningless paperwork. $25-$35 million in debt on a $12m property is a serious and urgent threat to the football club. The problems are not limited to the property arm. Anyone with a brain knows that.
 

Paul J

Juniors
Messages
89
The Daily Tabliod says the debt is $35 mil, the SMH says $25 mil?

"Intertwined' is a very loose term. We don't know how much of the debt belongs to the Football dept, could be very minor.

Nor do we know how much the COE is worth. $12 mil was an 'estimate' by the SMH.
 

Card Shark

Immortal
Messages
32,237
The NRL players might wanna reconsider taking a % of the games revenue.

This will cut into that money big time.
 

BunniesMan

Immortal
Messages
33,789
From the above article the key bits:
The collapse of the property arm would be a massive blow to the Titans, who are in danger of being stripped of their NRL licence as external auditors discovered millions of dollars in hidden debt in the football club.

The auditing team, which has been putting the Titans' fiscal health under the microscope, also discovered that the debts incurred on various arms of the group's business operations are "intertwined".

The explosive discoveries are at odds with the sentiments of Titans boss Michael Searle, who has assured Gold Coast fans that the issues confronting the club's property arm have no repercussions for the NRL outfit.

It is understood the external accountants discovered the football club was in millions of dollars of debt to suppliers, including those that provide merchandise, catering and ground hiring.

The level of debt is unprecedented in NRL history

The quicker the game gets rid of Searle the better. The moment any third parties have got a look at this mob his house of cards has been seen for what it is.

The NRL has to and will always have a team on the Gold Coast. But that team being run by Searle and even being called the Titans are not necessities.

Some in this thread have said the Titans brand is mud with small business in the area. People involved with those small business' know other people, perhaps that's the reason they've had dwindling crowds.

Taking the license away from Searle and giving it to someone else to rebrand could be the best longterm option.
 

El Diablo

Post Whore
Messages
94,107
The Daily Tabliod says the debt is $35 mil, the SMH says $25 mil?

"Intertwined' is a very loose term. We don't know how much of the debt belongs to the Football dept, could be very minor.

Nor do we know how much the COE is worth. $12 mil was an 'estimate' by the SMH.

and nobody knows how much it has to do with the Football Club or what ARLC have been discussing re letting them go bust and then starting up a new GC franchise
 
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