Why don't established First Graders want to play for Tigers?

[BrotherJim05]

I think this question is driving us all a bit crazy. It seems that solid first graders, all the way up to marquee players simply don't want to play for Tigers, and once our juniors establish themselves as NRL quality they leave at the first opportunity.

I simply cannot find a reason why:

1. Lack of on-field success - players are keen to play for plenty of clubs when they are struggling, which is probably why other clubs are quicker to get out of the dumps and into finals. The fact that Latrell Mitchell would rather play for GCT than us says a lot
2. Inept management - was a massive issue for us in the past but since Pascoe we have clearly gotten our shit together
3. Culture - again, was a huge issue in the past but by all reports the club culture is among the most positive in the NRL
4. Training Facilities - players spitting the dummy because of training facilities are shithouse doesn't seem to be a problem for Manly
5. Coach - We've had this problem under 4 different coaches. I thought maybe the fact the coach keeps changing is the issue but apart from only a handful of clubs the coaches coming and going is normal
6. Off field drama - Ha! No f**king way this is the problem
7. Location - We are based in Sydney ffs, how could this be the issue when

Is there something the players see that we can't see?

 

[BuffaloRules]

Well.. not sure why you are ruling everything out, as there has to be reasons because it’s been happening a while now and they only can seem to attract lower quality players..

The reasons are contained in your list and I think that whether they continue to apply or not in reality, I’m sure that things like losing culture, dramas ( Cleary debacle, Robbie Farah getting the arse) inept management etc are still front of potential players minds until they actually turn this around and have some success on the field..

I think the training facilities is the big one...Is the situation with Manly really the same? Even if it was, note that players ( and a lot of other people) are always going to want to live on the Northern beaches..

Whilst I like Madge, he has a reputation for flogging players in training and my way or the highway that doesn’t appeal to all players..

Think you are overestimating Pascoe also ... didn’t he oversee Cleary’s signings? Please don’t say that Cleary had total control to sign injured hacks to long deals - If this was the case, then who gave Cleary this control?

 

[Front-Rower]

The fact that Latrell Mitchell would rather play for GCT than us says a lot

As a 20 something year old male would you rather live on the Gold Coast, Campbelltown or inner west Sydney?

 

[Tigerm]

I think "lack of success" is a big factor, who wants to come to a loser club.

That's why we need to get a an elite player (prob pay overs) to help make that happen. IMO that's why a player like LM was so important.

I think once we a constant in the top 8, the managers will have us on there speed dial & they will come. We just have to get their first.

 

[Magpies Forever]

Partly location & lifestyle-I know we are Sydney based but Manly, Roosters, Saints, Cronulla & Souths have either water lifestyle or very close to it and the add ons that go from a coastal life. Also too- Gold Coast, Newcastle, Brisbane, Melbourne & Cowboys.

Its only Tigers, Parra, Dogs & Penrith that dont directly, or immediately close, lifestyle choices like that. Tigers also need a promotion done by the wider inner west and south eastern community as to the good things f living in the area.

Also, a large degree of established first graders dont want the hassles of working to pull a team into the success area. They are lazy and dont want that fight and mental strain. So much easier to go where success is already a thing.

A few other things but I'll get back to that. Run out of time right now.

 

[Mader45]

This club isn't like a 'nice guy' who cant get a girlfriend.

This club is like a realistic version of a weird science nice guy club.

Not only do girls already mock us, but everytime we create a Kelly LeBrock they run off immediately to non losers.

Maybe harsh, but lets be honest. Most NRL players are young, uneducated sheep. Its part and parcel with being a pro athlete. Do what youre told. Focus on sports, not books.

To NRL players WT have become like going to school with a backpack from Target, while kids want to have Billabong or Rip Curl etc. Can't explain to kids that Target is a bigger global business than Rip Curl or Billabong. Its still f*$*#ng lame and kids are going to tease the $hit out of you.

What can we do? Same thing Target did. They paid for people like Stella McCartney to design for them and make them cool.

If that sounds stupid and people think image wont affect recruitment... ask anyone under 20 if Souths is the joke of a club we all think it was pre Russell Crowe. Images of Souths in the media now is players in tailored suits and hollywood guests at games. All done without ostricizing their pre Crowe toothless alco fan base either.

It took Souths around 5-6 years for this image to change. It will take us the same if we ever start.

Things like having The Wiggles write ridiculously schmaltzy songs that make fans cringe or using a karaoke version of 40 year old song sung by a half rate jimmy barnes wannabe make us look like that mullet laced 60 year old grand dad at the local RSL playing Bon Jovi with a midi backing track.

Unfortunately this conversation has probably already come up and considering the management they'd probably consider something like upgrading eye of the tiger with Danger Zone by Kenny Loggins as 'Fresh and jivin with the kids'!

 

[Vic Mackey]

I’m not sure it’s the lack of onfield success as such. That can change very quickly and players realize this.

To me it’s two factors:

* Management - for a long time our management has been regarded as complete basket case. Managers would be advising their players of this

* Training Facilities - have any of you been to Concord? Schools in Africa have better resources then it, it’s f*#king depressing. Im not exaggerating when I say the Gymea Gorillas set up is more modern then ours. I can only a imagine a player touring it then going to a Penrith, Parramatta, Gold Coast etc, it wouldn’t be hard to choose.

 

[Magpies Forever]

I also think coaching stability is a big thing. No doubt, our coach swap-a-thon disconcerted a lot of potential players who at least thought of WT- we already know internally that swapping coaches is not good amongst the playing roster. Coaching style, demands and team structure and tactics are an important thing to players. We need to lock in Maguire for a few more years to visibly provide that stability and direction. With that done- we also will get success into the final 8 sooner rather than later.

Those 2 things are interrelated stories to tell players in your radar.

Negatives- we still dont have a homeground to call our own, bit hard to get the buy in to Wests Tigers when we remain the wandering minstrels of the NRL. FFS 1 homeground decided soon please. Declare ANZ Homebust stadium to be our homeground and in interim wander but make the declaration. Anything but Bankwest. Its not ours and never will be.

Agree- perception of WT will take a while to break down but managers are a blight on the game and look for the extra things apart from the wages to players. Not sure how we can address that- extra TPA? jet skis? BMW's? All have t be legal and not in brown paper bags. At present I think - not serously- many in the clubs hierachy still think annual bus and train passes to be an attractive offer.

 

[Fordy20]

I also think coaching stability is a big thing. No doubt, our coach swap-a-thon disconcerted a lot of potential players who at least thought of WT- we already know internally that swapping coaches is not good amongst the playing roster. Coaching style, demands and team structure and tactics are an important thing to players. We need to lock in Maguire for a few more years to visibly provide that stability and direction. With that done- we also will get success into the final 8 sooner rather than later.

100%. 5 different coaches in the space of 8 years is not a good look. Hard to sign players for a 2 to 3 year contract when you don't know who the coach will be.

 

[Tiger05]

I simply cannot find a reason why

Great post. This is the way I see it as well.

I think the main reason we haven't been able to recruit and retain players is we stuff our salary cap up regularly. Top line players rarely leave their clubs. It does happen and it might start happening more often but it's rare. I think when they choose to leave typically it's based on money.

We had a mess of a cap when Taylor was here (not his fault) and then Cleary came along and he had money and blew it. I think now Madge looks to be purchasing smartly but I really hope he doesn't throw money away. We need to go for players like Latrell and not players like Milford if we are looking to purchase marquee players. If they don't want to come just keep building on what are now pretty good foundations.

 

[Shredder]

Ive been reading this with interest, but Im going to give my 2c on another possibility.

Most players dont individually care about long term success or financial matters, They are guys in their 20s who want to do as little as possible, get paid and have fun. Their managers tell them where to play and for how much.

Player says to manager "what do you think"

Manager says "I think you should do it"

Like them or appreciate them or not, managers are the advisers these kids look to. Remember, say 80% of players are not superstars and are just making a living. I dont know how we change this but I think we should woo the managers.

I would invite them to something and have someone senior talk about how wonderful the club is so they can sell it to their stable of players. Surely this wouldnt impact the cap and hiring a boat or taking them out on a gold day may even cut the prices on some of the players we are after if we have the managers on side.

 

[simmo05]

I’m not sure it’s the lack of onfield success as such. That can change very quickly and players realize this.

To me it’s two factors:

* Management - for a long time our management has been regarded as complete basket case. Managers would be advising their players of this

* Training Facilities - have any of you been to Concord? Schools in Africa have better resources then it, it’s f*#king depressing. Im not exaggerating when I say the Gymea Gorillas set up is more modern then ours. I can only a imagine a player touring it then going to a Penrith, Parramatta, Gold Coast etc, it wouldn’t be hard to choose.

I have heard the training set up is aids for years now. Why can't the club fix it? Surly with wests owning the joint there is some spare cash laying around. Or maybe they can call that cheap merkin Harry for a few bob, life member and all.....

 

[Shredder]

Thats what a big part of the Centre of Excellence is about.

But yeah its been f**ked ever since day one.

I guess its not impressive when yo get a tour of your new work place and it looks like shite.

 

[Mader45]

Ive been reading this with interest, but Im going to give my 2c on another possibility.

Most players dont individually care about long term success or financial matters, They are guys in their 20s who want to do as little as possible, get paid and have fun. Their managers tell them where to play and for how much.

This makes a lot more sense than anything else. Because you can't really bypass this argument...

Why is a player going to sign with a manager, give him 10-15% of his salary, then ignore the primary reason he signed and gives him so much money in the first place?

Just search player managers nrl on google and you'll come across article after article with current and former players saying they run the game now.

To be fair though, the idea of wining and dining these bottom level leeches of utter scum disgusts me. Maybe WT has felt the same and paid the price for it.

 

[Shredder]

This is why I take recruiters out for lunch on a semi regular basis.

When someone good comes onto the market, I get the phone call first.

Its common sense.

 

[macnaz]

Why did Benji,Robbie,Lawrence,Brookes and Nofo hang around? .. let's start looking at what is good about the place and promote that.

 

[Mader45]

Why did Benji,Robbie,Lawrence,Brookes and Nofo hang around? .. let's start looking at was is good about the place and promote that.

If I had to guess.... Benji and Robbie won premierships early, were kings and given status. If we didnt win 2005, have go consider they wouldn't have stayed for long. Lawrence and Nofo were Campbelltown locals who never had major interest from elsewhere to question it. Brooks was sold a DCE pipe dream at the time of re-signing he may already regret...

 

[macnaz]

If I had to guess.... Benji and Robbie won premierships early, were kings and given status. If we didnt win 2005, have go consider they wouldn't have stayed for long. Lawrence and Nofo were Campbelltown locals who never had major interest from elsewhere to question it. Brooks was sold a DCE pipe dream at the time of re-signing he may already regret...

BS
edit ..
sorry I dont agree

 

[Tiger05]

Why did Benji,Robbie,Lawrence,Brookes and Nofo hang around? .. let's start looking at what is good about the place and promote that.

Yep. Guys want to stay. They love the place. We just have to be more professional and develop a good team and keep doing that.

 

[WA Tiger]

I’m not sure it’s the lack of onfield success as such. That can change very quickly and players realize this.

To me it’s two factors:

* Management - for a long time our management has been regarded as complete basket case. Managers would be advising their players of this

* Training Facilities - have any of you been to Concord? Schools in Africa have better resources then it, it’s f*#king depressing. Im not exaggerating when I say the Gymea Gorillas set up is more modern then ours. I can only a imagine a player touring it then going to a Penrith, Parramatta, Gold Coast etc, it wouldn’t be hard to choose.

Ok didn’t know that