Sydney Sharks

[The Great Dane]

We are stuck with our history which is a strength but also an anchor that weighs us down and stops us moving forward. I do wonder if the ARL had accepted News Ltd's offer in 1995 and we had gone with 4 super Sydney clubs being fed and part owned by the then 12 clubs what we might look like now?

But are we truly stuck with our history and is it really a strength?!

It seems to me that RL's history in this country is pretty much exclusively as a regional sport that is stuck to the eastern seaboard of the country, and with the sole exception of Melbourne, it's stayed that way for a century now.
I mean think about it, apart from the aforementioned Melbourne all of the teams in the NRL are from places where RL was more or less established 100 years ago, and there's effectively been no significant growth outside of those boarders since that time.

Do we really want that to be our legacy, and is that regional strength really a strength to be treasured, because it seems to me that if we want to treat that as a strength then we should all just give up on growing the sport at all.

And why do we allow ourselves to be stuck with this history when every other major competition and sport that I can think of has at least some form of mechanism built into their culture to cut away the dead weight over time. Whether it be pro&reg or having a culture of relocating and/or replacing clubs that are failing, or whatever, every sport has some mechanism built into their culture to get rid of clubs that simply aren't working anymore, except RL. In RL we won't even let them just go broke if we can avoid it. We'll throw more and more money down the drain trying to keep them alive instead of letting history take it's course and moving onward and upward, it's madness.

I mean RL is the only sport that loses it's shit when the Swinton frigging Lions, a club that literally only has a few hundred supporters left, goes to relocate into Manchester proper.
It's obvious to everybody that the club can't support it's self on a few hundred old men and it's literally moving only 20 minutes up the road to try and engage with a larger market, but people were more worried about those few hundred supporters feelings then they are about the future of the club and the sport in the region it's self. They were so upset by the prospect of a club that's literally on it's deathbed attempting to save it's self by relocating 20min up the road, that they threatened the board, chairmen, and their families until they all gave up on trying to save the club and resigned instead.
That's f**king madness on a level that has to be seen to be believed, and yet not only is it commonplace in RL, but it's a celebrated strength!

If the sport thinks that madness as a "strength", then the sport desperately needs to reevaluate what it's strengths and weaknesses are, because it's "strengths" are going to it lead to it slowly committing suicide.

 

[The Great Dane]

Perth is trapped in a hopeless position.. plenty of 'lip service', and one-off events.. but no solid commitment to a team.. it's seriously worse than the Bears, given that the TV value of their home games late timeslot could be worth a lot to the NRL.

Speaking of the Bears, maybe that's the answer? Perth rebranded as the Bears in some kinda bizarre joint venture.... *shrugs* Bringing together two desperate groups, separated by a vast geological distance - unlikely as it sounds, and as unworkable as it seems - would be just about typical for the kinda hare-brained, ad-hoc evolution of the competition we've seen.

That is exactly the sort of desperation that I'd advise Perth against!

The last thing Perth wants are yearly articles about "rumours" that the Bears are looking to relocate to NS full time, especially if the club is struggling, and let's be honest, Flo seems like a great guy and is a very passionate man, but I wouldn't put it past him (or any of the other old Bears) to actually try to move the club back to Sydney the first opportunity that he got.

 

[Diesel]

That’s old news @T-Boon there was an article about a decade ago that suggested the Sharks and Roosters merge as the Bondi Sharks

 

[tri_colours]

But are we truly stuck with our history and is it really a strength?!

It seems to me that RL's history in this country is pretty much exclusively as a regional sport that is stuck to the eastern seaboard of the country, and with the sole exception of Melbourne, it's stayed that way for a century now.
I mean think about it, apart from the aforementioned Melbourne all of the teams in the NRL are from places where RL was more or less established 100 years ago, and there's effectively been no significant growth outside of those boarders since that time.

Do we really want that to be our legacy, and is that regional strength really a strength to be treasured, because it seems to me that if we want to treat that as a strength then we should all just give up on growing the sport at all.

And why do we allow ourselves to be stuck with this history when every other major competition and sport that I can think of has at least some form of mechanism built into their culture to cut away the dead weight over time. Whether it be pro&reg or having a culture of relocating and/or replacing clubs that are failing, or whatever, every sport has some mechanism built into their culture to get rid of clubs that simply aren't working anymore, except RL. In RL we won't even let them just go broke if we can avoid it. We'll throw more and more money down the drain trying to keep them alive instead of letting history take it's course and moving onward and upward, it's madness.

I mean RL is the only sport that loses it's shit when the Swinton frigging Lions, a club that literally only has a few hundred supporters left, goes to relocate into Manchester proper.
It's obvious to everybody that the club can't support it's self on a few hundred old men and it's literally moving only 20 minutes up the road to try and engage with a larger market, but people were more worried about those few hundred supporters feelings then they are about the future of the club and the sport in the region it's self. They were so upset by the prospect of a club that's literally on it's deathbed attempting to save it's self by relocating 20min up the road, that they threatened the board, chairmen, and their families until they all gave up on trying to save the club and resigned instead.
That's f**king madness on a level that has to be seen to be believed, and yet not only is it commonplace in RL, but it's a celebrated strength!

If the sport thinks that madness as a "strength", then the sport desperately needs to reevaluate what it's strengths and weaknesses are, because it's "strengths" are going to it lead to it slowly committing suicide.

RL, on the verge of bringing in another multi billion dollar contract, sure sounds like a strength me. On the other hand, Rugby Union, a sport that has its dots spread over a much larger area on the map of Australia, however in all likely hood won’t see out the decade.

Do we have the right nuts running the asylum ? And Where does the suicide part come into this


Good story though.

 

[The Great Dane]

RL, on the verge of bringing in another multi billion dollar contract, sure sounds like a strength me.

The NRL is on the verge of a multi-billion dollar contract in spite of the fact that the competition doesn't have national coverage, not because of it.

Take away SOO regularly drawing two of the top 5-10 (whatever it is) largest audiences a year alongside the GF and those contract values tank, and who knows if the multi-billion dollar contracts last once TV is a dead medium.

On the other hand, Rugby Union, a sport that has its dots spread over a much larger area on the map of Australia, however in all likely hood won’t see out the decade.

Australian RU's current problems have almost nothing to do with their expansion attempts.

Any of the major codes would be struggling if for two decades half or more of their games were played in disparate time zones, and almost none of their games could be played in prime time. The ARU's biggest mistake is refusing to accept that reality.

Besides that comparing Super Rugby to the NRL is comparing apples and oranges. The AFL is a much closer comparison, and by every metric except one the AFL is kicking the NRL's arse.

Do we have the right nuts running the asylum ? And Where does the suicide part come into this


Good story though.

You can drive an hour outside of Sydney in basically every direction and RL is dying a slow death, yet despite that the NRL throws more and more resources into Sydney.

If things stay the way they are then in a few generations time every child born will grow up playing basketball, soccer, and AFL, and the grassroots of RL will be effectively dead everywhere outside of Sydney and Queensland. Then the circle jerk in Sydney will be all that is left and they'll be totally outgunned and unable to compete.

 

[tri_colours]

The NRL is on the verge of a multi-billion dollar contract in spite of the fact that the competition doesn't have national coverage, not because of it.

Take away SOO regularly drawing two of the top 5-10 (whatever it is) largest audiences a year alongside the GF and those contract values tank, and who knows if the multi-billion dollar contracts last once TV is a dead medium.

So were not including SOO ? This is very much like if, if, if, but, but, if my aunty had balls she would be my uncle! A major change in the last 45years, something that played and watched all over the country. But we wont count that one.
what about other rep games, and the international expansion the game has seen in the last ten years, that doesn’t count either?


Getting back to SOO, it’s something that CH9 bought, not fox. So even if we do exclude that (pretend that it does'nt exist. With the rest on C9, Fox, Sky,Telsta and intenational right were still looking at $1.5b


And yes, TV may be on its last legs. But that doesn’t mean sport is. People will still watch it, through streaming or some other medium! What ever the method we will adapt and they will find a way for us to pay for it.

 

[tri_colours]

Australian RU's current problems have almost nothing to do with their expansion attempts.

Any of the major codes would be struggling if for two decades half or more of their games were played in disparate time zones, and almost none of their games could be played in prime time. The ARU's biggest mistake is refusing to accept that reality.

Besides that comparing Super Rugby to the NRL is comparing apples and oranges. The AFL is a much closer comparison, and by every metric except one the AFL is kicking the NRL's arse.

But Australia has multiple time zone's.??? Doesn't that contradict your original point???

You bought up Super Rugby not me? apparently rep football is banned from this discussion.

But that one ,More tv ratings is the main one. more viewers - more fans all the rest will follow.

 

[tri_colours]

You can drive an hour outside of Sydney in basically every direction and RL is dying a slow death, yet despite that the NRL throws more and more resources into Sydney.

If things stay the way they are then in a few generations time every child born will grow up playing basketball, soccer, and AFL, and the grassroots of RL will be effectively dead everywhere outside of Sydney and Queensland. Then the circle jerk in Sydney will be all that is left and they'll be totally outgunned and unable to compete.

So when will we get rain next?

I live a few hours outside Sydney and the game is not dying. It may still be struggling, but its a lot healthier than what it was.

 

[The Great Dane]

So were not including SOO ? This is very much like if, if, if, but, but, if my aunty had balls she would be my uncle! A major change in the last 45years, something that played and watched all over the country. But we wont count that one.
what about other rep games, and the international expansion the game has seen in the last ten years, that doesn’t count either?


Getting back to SOO, it’s something that CH9 bought, not fox. So even if we do exclude that (pretend that it does'nt exist. With the rest on C9, Fox, Sky,Telsta and intenational right were still looking at $1.5b


And yes, TV may be on its last legs. But that doesn’t mean sport is. People will still watch it, through streaming or some other medium! What ever the method we will adapt and they will find a way for us to pay for it.

LOL, what are you on about!?

I'm not suggesting that we not include SOO (nor am I sure what we would be excluding it from lol), I'm saying that SOO is one of the main pillars that holds the NRL's broadcasting rights value up where it is, and that if it goes the whole house of cards will fall down.

Considering that more and more players are coming from outside of NSW and QLD, it's extremely unlikely that in a generation or so that SOO will represent the highest standard of footy anymore. What that means for SOO nobody really knows, but there's a good chance that when some of the next Thurston's, Slater's, and Gallen's (had to find some way to include a NSWelshman lol) aren't from NSW and QLD that the quality of SOO takes a hit, and that interest in the product will take a hit as well. If that happens, then as things stand, it'd spell bad news for the NRL.

Once TV goes nobody knows what really happens. We hope that streaming services pick up where TV left off, but the internet is a global economy, and in the global economy Australia, the NRL, and RL don't command much interest. So it could turn out how we hope, it could also turnout that all the major streaming services spend all their time and money fighting over the big names and RL only gets the left overs, or it could turn out that none of the major streaming services are interested and the NRL is left to self publish.

We just don't know how things will go down, and not only should we not assume that we do know how things will go down, but we should try to prepare for as many eventualities as possible.

 

[The Great Dane]

But Australia has multiple time zone's.??? Doesn't that contradict your original point???

Australia does not have time zones so far apart that it sees games played in prime time in one time zone being broadcast in the wee hours of the morning in the other, like the difference between South Africa and Australia, or though not quite as bad, but still bad, Argentina and Australia.

You know who does have that problem, Super Rugby...

But again comparing SR and the NRL in this regard is comparing apples and oranges.

You bought up Super Rugby not me? apparently rep football is banned from this discussion.

Seriously what are you on?

I didn't bring up SR, nor did I ban rep footy from the discussion.

You've really made a hash out of this one haven't you. lol.

So when will we get rain next?

I live a few hours outside Sydney and the game is not dying. It may still be struggling, but its a lot healthier than what it was.

Good for you Stallion, meanwhile in most of the rest of country NSW and the ACT, particularly in the south, the AFL and soccer are absolutely raping RL.

If the AFL started a club in Canberra tomorrow it'd be as big, if not bigger than the Raiders overnight.

If they'd started it a few years ago when the Raiders weren't having some what of a renaissance because of recent success, then their club definitely would have been bigger then the Raiders overnight.

20 and 30 years ago that statement would have been utterly ridiculous, but now, after 20 years of the AFL pouring resources into Canberra and the surrounding regions while the NRL sits on it's hands and hopes that if they ignore it it'll go away, the AFL could more or less take over the city whenever it wants too.

Once you go outside of NSW and QLD the sports grassroots can best be described as a graveyard!

 

[mongoose]

But are we truly stuck with our history and is it really a strength?!

It seems to me that RL's history in this country is pretty much exclusively as a regional sport that is stuck to the eastern seaboard of the country, and with the sole exception of Melbourne, it's stayed that way for a century now.

It is a strength but yes one that has probably hamstrung the sports growth. But the A League or Super Rugby would kill to have historic and well supported or well known brands like the NRL does. Maybe just not 9 of them all in 1 city...

The A League is still seen as a plastic 7th rate comp that may or may not survive another 5 years. Their crowd average is barely above 10k.

Super Rugby is even less relevant and not because of time zones, cause its never been shown on fta tv. Now fox doesn't even want it.

 

[tri_colours]

.... meanwhile in most of the rest of country NSW and the ACT, particularly in the south, the AFL and soccer are absolutely raping RL.

If the AFL started a club in Canberra tomorrow it'd be as big, if not bigger than the Raiders overnight.

If they'd started it a few years ago when the Raiders weren't having some what of a renaissance because of recent success, then their club definitely would have been bigger then the Raiders overnight.

20 and 30 years ago that statement would have been utterly ridiculous, but now, after 20 years of the AFL pouring resources into Canberra and the surrounding regions while the NRL sits on it's hands and hopes that if they ignore it it'll go away, the AFL could more or less take over the city whenever it wants too.

Once you go outside of NSW and QLD the sports grassroots can best be described as a graveyard!

If what you say is right, and I do agree with much of it , Wouldn't we, currently, be better of making as much money as possible? pumping that money into the existing grassroots and shoring up what we already have? not investing hundreds of millions in new sides that are not going to see any return on for over 10 years !

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Perth is trapped in a hopeless position.. plenty of 'lip service', and one-off events.. but no solid commitment to a team.. it's seriously worse than the Bears, given that the TV value of their home games late timeslot could be worth a lot to the NRL.

Speaking of the Bears, maybe that's the answer? Perth rebranded as the Bears in some kinda bizarre joint venture.... *shrugs* Bringing together two desperate groups, separated by a vast geological distance - unlikely as it sounds, and as unworkable as it seems - would be just about typical for the kinda hare-brained, ad-hoc evolution of the competition we've seen.

I'm not saying it will or should happen but Perth or Adelaide are by far the best option for the Bears to get back into the NRL.

 

[T-Boon]

NRL has an image problem around being dangerous and also that it is played by thugs. Add to that the game is not very skilful or exciting to watch anymore. AFL and soccer are at least safe.
League needs to get rid of the meat heads and the meat head style of hit up football. There needs to be more passing and skill on the field.
The NRL should also give a directive that of a player cannot speak proper English then they should not be allowed to play. The geniusedness of how NRL players speak is almost impossible.

 

[Perth Red]

The A League is still seen as a plastic 7th rate comp that may or may not survive another 5 years. Their crowd average is barely above 10k.

at 15k our crowd avg isn’t anything to shout about for the third most popular sport in Australia.

Aleague problem is it doesn’t have the tv viewers to give it the big deal, they will always be way behind the European soccer leagues and so find it hard to get the interest in today’s global arena

having so many teams in Sydney had been undoubtedly been a strength but it will get to a tipping point of holding the games growth back to its detriment. Aside from tv money, and that’s largely been due to historic underpayment going back 25 years, There hasn’t been any growth in the last decade plus in fans or participation despite massive revenue increase. The game is richer than ever before but going nowhere fast.

 

[T-Boon]

The only way for the sharks to survive in Sydney is by moving to the city. Either that or total relocation to another city or expire.

 

[Perth Red]

The only way for the sharks to survive in Sydney is by moving to the city. Either that or total relocation to another city or expire.

but they’re going to be one of the richest clubs in the nrl, allegedly!

 

[The Great Dane]

It is a strength but yes one that has probably hamstrung the sports growth. But the A League or Super Rugby would kill to have historic and well supported or well known brands like the NRL does. Maybe just not 9 of them all in 1 city...

The ARU does have historic brands.

The Waratahs and Reds are just extensions of state rep teams that have existed since the 1800s, and at the end of the day the Brumbies are effectively just an extension of the Kookaburras, the ACT rep team that's been around since the early 1900s, it's probably close to 80-90 years old now.

SR has devalued them to the point that you can't really call them particularly well supported anymore, but they are historic and once were really strong and well supported brands.

The A League is still seen as a plastic 7th rate comp that may or may not survive another 5 years. Their crowd average is barely above 10k.

The A-league only exists because the old NPL and it's "historic and well supported or well know" ethnic clubs were killing soccer in this country, and the FFA took the hard decision of killing all that to start fresh.

For all sorts of reasons (mainly because of mismanagement) the A-league isn't going great guns right now, but it's doing a damn sight better than the NPL was doing, and it's only achieving what it is because they had the balls to do away with the dead weight that was holding them back.

Super Rugby is even less relevant and not because of time zones, cause its never been shown on fta tv. Now fox doesn't even want it.

They aren't on FTA because of the time zones.

Why spend a bunch of money on obtaining SR's broadcasting rights if most of the games you are paying for can't be broadcast at a good time for ratings, especially when all of SR's competitors offer competitions where almost all of their games can be broadcast in good time slots.

BTW, they have been on FTA in the past, they were on Channel 10 for a while (and iirc they were on at least one of the others as well) and it was an expensive ratings disaster for the channel.

 

[T-Boon]

but they’re going to be one of the richest clubs in the nrl, allegedly!

Yes but they play out of a place nobody has heard of. Cronulla is up there with Collingwood and Green Bay as the most head scratching names in world sport.

 

[mongoose]

NRL has an image problem around being dangerous and also that it is played by thugs. Add to that the game is not very skilful or exciting to watch anymore. AFL and soccer are at least safe.
League needs to get rid of the meat heads and the meat head style of hit up football. There needs to be more passing and skill on the field.
The NRL should also give a directive that of a player cannot speak proper English then they should not be allowed to play. The geniusedness of how NRL players speak is almost impossible.

UFC is dangerous and competed in by proper thugs, doesn't harm its popularity.

League has made more steps for better or worse to make it more safe than the AFL has. I'm always amazed at some of the stuff I see on the AFL field that doesn't get suspended. The sport and its fawning media though will always hide behind the BS of "at least we're not as dangerous and thuggish as League". Also that sport has just as many concussion problems as League, seriously - launching yourself high in the air and possibly landing on your head is as dangerous as it gets, worse than a high shot in League.

I think the game has actually brought back some the skill and unpredictability in the last couple of seasons. I hate the Roosters but they are great to watch. The Eels and Sea Eagles are entertaining when they're on and the Raiders are unconventional if anything. Even the Storm can be good to watch on their day.