Jack DeBelin

[muzby]

You’ve missed the whole point of my original post and reply. don’t how it got to this And I only replied about Dugan & Packer because someone else mentioned them. from the beginning people on here People were advocating JDB has been given preferential special treatment over others. I want to know how has he as not been convicted of anything yet is all I have said and how do we know What the club were privy too when they stood AFB down. JDB has been stood down from doing a lot of things too.

But but but.. He can play football good and we could be doing better on the field with both of them..

What about my enjoyment needs?for the usual suspects, that’s called sarcasm

 

[Gardenia]

Cant get full. he has already received 4 months salary.

Poor Dragons are paying a penalty for the second season running .

 

[Gardenia]

We could of applied Nov 1. We rolled the dice not the NRL

It was widely reported that the court case would be decided before the start of the season. What happened next was not foreseeable IMO ie new legal argument sick witness etc etc . So very strange .what is the average time frame for something like this ? I think I read 20 months well Nov 2 is way past that if it goes ahead then

 

[FlameThrower]

Might as well park these thread until November-

 

[Willow]

Yes I agree, but I'll give this one more chance.

Truth is, moderating folks who think they know what happened is getting far too repetitive.

People should read the article in this thread where JDB is launching legal action against the Telegraph for their reporting on the case.

If that doesn't send a signal to those who have made up their mind, then nothing will.

 

[Dennis Papaioannou]

We’ve had this dance before.

Firstly, how you can lump Dugan into the same pile as people convicted of beating a woman or spending time in jail for bashing someone is beyond comprehension.

Secondly, just because AFB can play football doesn’t mean we should have kept him.

Dane Nielsen allegedly bit a woman & he got the sack too. Why aren’t you advocating for his reinstatement?

You argue about who’s moral compass we should base the decisions on?

It seems that your compass isn’t based on morals, but based on football ability.

We need to stop treating young men like gods simply because of the footballing genetics they are blessed with.

I am not advocating any reinstatement whatsoever.
All I am saying, and the whole premise of my post, is that there is no consistency or equality when it comes to these decisions.
Take the personalities out of the discussion if it makes it easier for you to comprehend my argument but please don't patronize me with regards to morals and what mine are based on.

 

[Dennis Papaioannou]

The problem with this is that we don’t know the full story of AFB.

Was he pissed about being stood down and was having conflict with the club?

Did he underestimate the seriousness of his actions and need to be moved on as a kick up the pants?

Did he need to move away from the area to remove himself from negative influences?

Without knowing the answers to these questions I don’t think you can compare the different cases. Who is to say that he would have shown the same dedication to training and improving his game if he had stayed?

It’s possible it was best case scenario for all parties.

Your post is full of good questions and comments that show a lot more common sense than Muzby.
Here is an article that gives some insight into the player and what he's all about.
I think he showed genuine remorse and backed it up with actions.
Unfortunately, all that at another club....
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/ad...tter-man-than-his-record-20160504-gom4u5.html

 

[Old Timer]

A couple of left field questions re the JDB fiasco

1. If he had been incarcerated what would have the time from arrest to trial have been?
2. If had been incarcerated what would the NRL have done re our salary cap situation?
3. By the NRL sidelining him with the stand down rule is he not somewhat incarcerated re plying his profession so the answer to question 2 is really worth thinking about?
4. If he had a career ending injury at training would the NRL allow us to pension him off?
5. What should the club do if JDB came to them and said "I told you I am innocent, at the moment I can't play, you guys are sticking by me, my contract will be up for renewal before I lace a boot on again, so lets renegotiate my new contract right now and by the way I have instructed by agent to canvas all other options as after all I have just burnt 2 years of my footy career."

 

[muzby]

I am not advocating any reinstatement whatsoever.
All I am saying, and the whole premise of my post, is that there is no consistency or equality when it comes to these decisions.
Take the personalities out of the discussion if it makes it easier for you to comprehend my argument but please don't patronize me with regards to morals what mine are based on.

Sorry bud, but the only reason you’re advocating for AFB is because he’s turned into a good player would be a handy addition to our side.

If he was a spud and finished up playing for Nyngan I’m curious to know if you’d be so steadfast..

 

[muzby]

A couple of left field questions re the JDB fiasco

1. If he had been incarcerated what would have the time from arrest to trial have been?
2. If had been incarcerated what would the NRL have done re our salary cap situation?
3. By the NRL sidelining him with the stand down rule is he not somewhat incarcerated re plying his profession so the answer to question 2 is really worth thinking about?
4. If he had a career ending injury at training would the NRL allow us to pension him off?
5. What should the club do if JDB came to them and said "I told you I am innocent, at the moment I can't play, you guys are sticking by me, my contract will be up for renewal before I lace a boot on again, so lets renegotiate my new contract right now and by the way I have instructed by agent to canvas all other options as after all I have just burnt 2 years of my footy career."

There are a number of professions where people are stood down with full pay pending inquiries.

 

[Dennis Papaioannou]

Sorry bud, but the only reason you’re advocating for AFB is because he’s turned into a good player would be a handy addition to our side.

If he was a spud and finished up playing for Nyngan I’m curious to know if you’d be so steadfast..

Tepid response...

 

[blue bags]

imagine if half the team was stood down like jack has, remember the bulldogs coffs harbour, sharks NZ incidents , the dragons team or any other NRL team, would be decimated , the chaos it would cause is unthinkable

 

[The Silverdale Phantom]

Yes I agree, but I'll give this one more chance.

Truth is, moderating folks who think they know what happened is getting far too repetitive.

People should read the article in this thread where JDB is launching legal action against the Telegraph for their reporting on the case.

If that doesn't send a signal to those who have made up their mind, then nothing will.

That’s right.

There’s not even a cogent argument available that he “put himself in a position to be alleged against”

Anyone at anytime, doing anything, is in a position to be alleged against.

You can be at home in bed and some idiot will swear that they saw you climbing the harbour bridge.

This is why we have a legal process and why it’s important for each of us to ensure it’s fair and just to all stakeholders.

Other than that, If Mal said those things, I think he’s better off reconsidering his position as the Australian coach.

 

[possm]

A couple of left field questions re the JDB fiasco

1. If he had been incarcerated what would have the time from arrest to trial have been?
2. If had been incarcerated what would the NRL have done re our salary cap situation?
3. By the NRL sidelining him with the stand down rule is he not somewhat incarcerated re plying his profession so the answer to question 2 is really worth thinking about?
4. If he had a career ending injury at training would the NRL allow us to pension him off?
5. What should the club do if JDB came to them and said "I told you I am innocent, at the moment I can't play, you guys are sticking by me, my contract will be up for renewal before I lace a boot on again, so lets renegotiate my new contract right now and by the way I have instructed by agent to canvas all other options as after all I have just burnt 2 years of my footy career."

I just don't understand how the NRL think they can introduce a stand down rule - on full pay - retrospectively and then expect SGI to ware the costs.

 

[The Silverdale Phantom]

I just don't understand how the NRL think they can introduced a stand down rule - on full pay - retrospectively and then expect SGI to ware the costs.

They probably argue that because it applies to all players and all clubs, it is fair and doesn’t discriminate. That’s the theory.

In practice, as you suggest, it’s a glib and dark story.

The NRL does not and can never have the resources of the Police to investigate a matter properly, it doesn’t engage defence lawyers or judges to process people.

It does not have the skills and expertise and it’s no fault decisions adversely effect 1000’s of people entirely unconnected with the player or event.

The NRL cannot nominate a single instance where the no fault stand down policy has prevented any crime or misdemeanour.

It can’t help perception when plenty of criminals including those with offences against women are still playing the game. They are still there Greenburger.

The vast majority of no-faulters, they get back into the game after the legal process. So it doesn’t do much anyway. Guys like Reynolds are given a free pass for a serious allegation ( I haven’t heard that the charges have been formally dropped) while jdb is smashed into oblivion, for, an allegation only.

No fault stand down is a bold faced lie. It apportions fault by standing players down.

Badly thought out, woefully implemented and unjust.

They’d make more progress giving the money they spend on it to women’s refuges and rape crisis centres. Where the rubber hits the road and not this bullshit flattery of themselves playing rough justice nrl street cops.

It’s really hurting a lot of people all over the game, it’s punishing us supporters who love the game.

It’s pathetic.

 

[Gardenia]

Yes I agree, but I'll give this one more chance.

Truth is, moderating folks who think they know what happened is getting far too repetitive.

People should read the article in this thread where JDB is launching legal action against the Telegraph for their reporting on the case.

If that doesn't send a signal to those who have made up their mind, then nothing will.

This

 

[Gardenia]

They probably argue that because it applies to all players and all clubs, it is fair and doesn’t discriminate. That’s the theory.

In practice, as you suggest, it’s a glib and dark story.

The NRL does not and can never have the resources of the Police to investigate a matter properly, it doesn’t engage defence lawyers or judges to process people.

It does not have the skills and expertise and it’s no fault decisions adversely effect 1000’s of people entirely unconnected with the player or event.

The NRL cannot nominate a single instance where the no fault stand down policy has prevented any crime or misdemeanour.

It can’t help perception when plenty of criminals including those with offences against women are still playing the game. They are still there Greenburger.

The vast majority of no-faulters, they get back into the game after the legal process. So it doesn’t do much anyway. Guys like Reynolds are given a free pass for a serious allegation ( I haven’t heard that the charges have been formally dropped) while jdb is smashed into oblivion, for, an allegation only.

No fault stand down is a bold faced lie. It apportions fault by standing players down.

Badly thought out, woefully implemented and unjust.

They’d make more progress giving the money they spend on it to women’s refuges and rape crisis centres. Where the rubber hits the road and not this bullshit flattery of themselves playing rough justice nrl street cops.

It’s really hurting a lot of people all over the game, it’s punishing us supporters who love the game.

It’s pathetic.

I think what is the hardest is how long the process is being dragged out as well as the club having to wear the cost ie only dispensation for part of the season so cannot get a like for like replacement.
I find it offensive that with alleged DV perpetrators it’s ok to play . It’s disgusting. I know the JDB allegations are a lot more serious but it’s still “bad” to commit other violent acts towards women . I just think why the scale you either stand against it or you don’t . It’s weak . If u want to get serious then stand them all down pending court .
Or otherwise what is this really about ? It’s an unclear message

 

[Forbes Creek Dragons]

There are a number of professions where people are stood down with full pay pending inquiries.

Usually careers without a salary cap and short term lifespan.

 

[muzby]

Usually careers without a salary cap and short term lifespan.

Why should footballers be treated any differently differently to you or me?

 

[Forbes Creek Dragons]

Why should footballers be treated any differently differently to you or me?

They personally shouldn’t be but the fact it affects an entire organisation more so than in any other profession I can think of requires a lot more thought on its implementation.