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Geoff Carr has a cry about dual eligibility

kiwileaguefan

Juniors
Messages
2,426
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/...ring-respect-they-deserve-20111008-1levf.html

Meanwhile, ARL chief executive Geoff Carr said he would further look at the situation where junior Australian representatives, such as Benji Marshall and Kieran Foran, elected to play for New Zealand's senior team.

The Kiwis have eight players in their squad in Newcastle who are eligible to play for Australia, including five who played for Australia at schoolboy or junior level. Marshall (2003 Australian schoolboys), Foran (2007 schoolboys), Gerard Beale (2010 Junior Kangaroos), Kevin Proctor (2006-07 schoolboys) and Jared Waerea-Hargreaves (2007 Australian rugby under 19s) pledged their allegiance to New Zealand, while Queensland State of Origin representative Nathan Fien, Sam McKendry and Jason Nightingale were born here.


''The issue is dual eligibility,'' Carr said. ''Guys like Benji qualify for Australian Schoolboys because, by definition, he attended school here and that makes him an Australian schoolboy, but if he goes back to New Zealand the next year it's hard to deny the fact he's a New Zealander. Even at full international status you can change your election [for national honours] at an election period, and that's why we have Bulgarian weightlifters and Russian pole vaulters. You can qualify for a country through heritage, residency or a passport.''



Brisbane utility Beale, who is related to All Blacks great Zinzan Brooke, had no qualms representing the Kiwis although he was born and raised in Australia and played for last year's Junior Kangaroos.



''It was a tough decision because it meant I turned my back on Queensland and Origin is massive, but I always wanted to play in the black jersey,'' he said. ''I don't regret it and my family is proud I chose New Zealand.''
:roll::lol::crazy:
 

Evil Homer

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
7,178
Even at full international status you can change your election [for national honours] at an election period, and that's why we have Bulgarian weightlifters and Russian pole vaulters. You can qualify for a country through heritage, residency or a passport.
:?

How did this guy come to be involved in the running of international sport?
 

LeagueXIII

First Grade
Messages
5,966
To me Carr seems like a bloke who makes decisions that best suite his mates, he is unable to make a hard decision in the best interests of RL or to create a positive perception of the code internationally.

He has left no legacy for us to be proud of infact everytime I see a report about him I cringe.
 
Messages
362
I don't see what your problem is with what Carr said in that article. He's right to be concerned about the number of Aussie players who are turning their backs on playing for their country. You can bet if a similar thing was happening in rugby union in NZ the reaction would be far more aggressive. Imagine the public outcry if players such as Muliaina, Nonu, Rokocoko and Mealamu had decided they would rather play for their country of heritage over the ABs? Of course the big difference is that in NZ playing for the ABs is regarded as the ultimate, and NZ's entire national identity is dependent on the success of the ABs. With league in Aus, the general attitude to international competition is one of ambivalence. I guess the problem is that the public don't really see beating the Kiwis at league as a particularly meaningful or interesting proposition. The NRL competition is probably regarded as the pinnacle of the sport. Whereas in rugby union, because it is a far more international sport, international competition is considered to be the pinnacle of the game.
 

kiwileaguefan

Juniors
Messages
2,426
I don't see what your problem is with what Carr said in that article. He's right to be concerned about the number of Aussie players who are turning their backs on playing for their country.

So out of the list he gives he fails to metion that:
Marshall, NZ Born
Foran, NZ Born
Gerard Beale, NZ Parents
Kevin Proctor, NZ Born
Jared Waerea-Hargreaves, NZ Born
Nathan Fien,
Sam McKendry, Played Junior League in NZ
Jason Nightingale Not sure if it was his mother NZ born??

Hardly stealing them from Australia....funny how he fails to mention about Uate, K Hunt, Brad Thorn, T Carrol, Ben Teo, Petero Civoniceva Lote Tuqurihttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petero_Civoniceva etc etc
 
Last edited:

hutch

First Grade
Messages
6,810
So out of the list he gives he fails to metion that:
Marshall, NZ Born
Foran, NZ Born
Gerard Beale, NZ Parents
Kevin Proctor, NZ Born
Jared Waerea-Hargreaves, NZ Born
Nathan Fien,
Sam McKendry, Played Junior League in NZ
Jason Nightingale Not sure if it was his mother NZ born??

Hardly stealing them from Australia....funny how he fails to mention about Uate, K Hunt, Brad Thorn, T Carrol, Ben Teo, Petero Civoniceva Lote Tuqurihttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petero_Civoniceva etc etc

He is a joke, I cannot believe that this idiot is or was in charge of our international game!

Just on your player list, there are no problems with all of them playing for nz and Australia respectively except for probably fien and Uate! Nightingales dad was born in nz!
 
Messages
362
So out of the list he gives he fails to metion that:
Marshall, NZ Born
Foran, NZ Born
Gerard Beale, NZ Parents
Kevin Proctor, NZ Born
Jared Waerea-Hargreaves, NZ Born
Nathan Fien,
Sam McKendry, Played Junior League in NZ
Jason Nightingale Not sure if it was his mother NZ born??

Hardly stealing them from Australia....funny how he fails to mention about Uate, K Hunt, Brad Thorn, T Carrol, Ben Teo, Petero Civoniceva Lote Tuquri etc etc

Perhaps you need to brush up on your reading comprehension skills? The only player Carr is quoted as referring to in that article is Benji, and he says it is hard to deny that Benji is a Kiwi. So what are you getting worked up about? It is a fact that Beale is a born and raised Aussie who played for the Aus junior side. Next year he decides he wants to be a Kiwi. But you seem confused. What's Civoniceva or Tuquri got to do with it? As I understand they were raised in Aus from an early age. No problem with them playing for Aus. Much as you might hate to admit it, players such as Cayless, Pritchard, Webster, Beale would qualify as "plastic Aussies" (to borrow some Kiwi-fanboi-speak from Bobby DIGital).
 
Messages
362
He is a joke, I cannot believe that this idiot is or was in charge of our international game!

Just on your player list, there are no problems with all of them playing for nz and Australia respectively except for probably fien and Uate! Nightingales dad was born in nz!

well, they are all eligible according to the rules. The problem is the number of Aus born and raised players who decide they would rather play for another country. It is unusual, don't you think? Certainly it wouldn't happen in NZ. It should be a little disturbing for Aus as a country, and something Carr is quite right to be concerned about.
 

RedVee

First Grade
Messages
6,004
well, they are all eligible according to the rules. The problem is the number of Aus born and raised players who decide they would rather play for another country. It is unusual, don't you think? Certainly it wouldn't happen in NZ. It should be a little disturbing for Aus as a country, and something Carr is quite right to be concerned about.

Yes, and until recently it seemed to be mostly a NSW thing - though recently more and more are turning down the maroon jersey as well.
 

AuDragon

Juniors
Messages
2,253
For most, I don't think it's about turning down the OZ, Maroon or Blue jersey, but more of a calculated gamble, as those jerseys are more difficult to obtain than any other.

This isn't a dig at NZ or any other country, but most of the players mentioned by the idiot wouldn't get a look in the Aussie or Origin teams.
Even Marshall would find it tough to get in ahead of Locky and Thurston...
 

shiznit

Coach
Messages
14,776
For most, I don't think it's about turning down the OZ, Maroon or Blue jersey, but more of a calculated gamble, as those jerseys are more difficult to obtain than any other.

This isn't a dig at NZ or any other country, but most of the players mentioned by the idiot wouldn't get a look in the Aussie or Origin teams.
Even Marshall would find it tough to get in ahead of Locky and Thurston...
lmfao... i dunno... Dally Cherry-Evans & Tony Williams made the cut for this latest Kangaroo's squad...

and if Benji Marshall pledged his services to Australia & QLD... Lockyer would have retired from rep football a couple of years ago.

Marshall has been better than Lockyer for a while now...
 

PARRA_FAN

Coach
Messages
17,125
So out of the list he gives he fails to metion that:
Marshall, NZ Born
Foran, NZ Born
Gerard Beale, NZ Parents
Kevin Proctor, NZ Born
Jared Waerea-Hargreaves, NZ Born
Nathan Fien,
Sam McKendry, Played Junior League in NZ
Jason Nightingale Not sure if it was his mother NZ born??

Hardly stealing them from Australia....funny how he fails to mention about Uate, K Hunt, Brad Thorn, T Carrol, Ben Teo, Petero Civoniceva Lote Tuquri etc etc

Exactly, the sooner this goose quits the better.

Nightingale's family is from New Zealand, I think he's the youngest and the family relocated to Australia a couple of years before he was born.

If these players mentioned want to represent the country of their choice let them.

Carr and co seem to get in players ears who are eligible for NZ about the fact they would sacrifice an Australia and Origin jumper if they decide to play for NZ.

Big deal.

Marshall has admitted he wouldve liked to play for Queensland but at the same said it wouldnt feel right.
 

RedVee

First Grade
Messages
6,004
Exactly, the sooner this goose quits the better.

Nightingale's family is from New Zealand, I think he's the youngest and the family relocated to Australia a couple of years before he was born.

If these players mentioned want to represent the country of their choice let them.

Carr and co seem to get in players ears who are eligible for NZ about the fact they would sacrifice an Australia and Origin jumper if they decide to play for NZ.

Big deal.

Marshall has admitted he wouldve liked to play for Queensland but at the same said it wouldnt feel right.

So, Nightingale is Australian born, ie an Australian???
I think that the head of the ARL is right to question why an Australian player decides to play against the nation of his birth. In fact, he would be derelict in his duty if he did not.

In general though, yep, Carr is a goose.
 

AuDragon

Juniors
Messages
2,253
lmfao... i dunno... Dally Cherry-Evans & Tony Williams made the cut for this latest Kangaroo's squad...

and if Benji Marshall pledged his services to Australia & QLD... Lockyer would have retired from rep football a couple of years ago.

Marshall has been better than Lockyer for a while now...
As I said, it's not a dig at anyone, but feel free to ignore that... :sarcasm:

Whether Marshall is better than Locky or not isn't the question. At the time he pledged to NZ, he wouldn't have had a chance to challenge Locky or Thurston for a halves spot.

Whether you like it or not, unless you're an absolute top star, your chances of playing definitely affect the choice you make to a degree. Each individual will decide how much...

As for those selections you mention.

DCE has been in great form, but. I see his selection more as a guarantee he pledges his allegiance to Australia, before England makes their move.

Tony Williams... Does anyone understand his selection after half a dozen good games? :shock:
 

kier

Juniors
Messages
130
This is always a difficult issue - especially when you're talking about those with parents born in other countries.

I emigrated to NZ in my thirties after marrying a kiwi. I now have three kids all NZ born.

I would LOVE them to represent England/UK if they were good enough.

They all have dual nationality - and my eldest boy has a flag of St George on his wall.

If they (hypothetically) had the choice to make I'd be proud of them either way - but I don't see why they should have to ply for NZ only given their genuine heritage.

Who is to make the judgement call on if a person feels they have a connection to a country through ancestry and culture?
 

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