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'12 | R1 | Fri | Eels 6-18 Broncos | Parramatta

Round 1 result: Eels v Broncos


  • Total voters
    56
  • Poll closed .
Messages
3,097
First game of the year, you expect the rust. As good as we were in the first half, we can't keep defending like that, falling away in the second half and hoping that we have done enough in the first 40. We are losing too many games in the second half - the best teams can maintain it through the 80 minutes, that is our biggest weakness right now. I also think we did alright without Hayne, I don't think Kearney has of a game plan when we lose key players.

The Broncos will be right up there - they are strong across all positions and the bench is good too. No disgrace in losing to a team who should finish top 4.
 

madunit

Super Moderator
Staff member
Messages
62,358
I thought Wallace had a shocking game and Sandow was no better.

Thaiday was ineffective as he kept trying to be Lockyer.
 

Big Pete

Referee
Messages
29,116
Still a bit disappointed with that effort.

Brisbane didn't bring the intensity last night and showed up with completely the wrong mind-set. Instead of being patient with our opportunities we kept trying to be too clever with the football and more times than not handed it straight back to Parra who were off and away.

Better second half...but still plenty of stupid errors from our boys. That kick off shmizzozle was pretty much the highlight of a s**t storm performance.

And honestly I'm not sure about Brisbane's defence. Was their defence that great or was Parra's attack really pedestrian? I guess we'll just never know.

Brisbane really missed Civo last night. As good a player as Sam is, he wasn't content to play a prop's game last night and tried to be too fancy when the order of the day was to run hard and direct.

Couple of good signs for both sides last night despite the low quality of football.

For Brisbane I thought Hodges looked as sharp as he did back before the shoulder injury in 2008. Not a stellar performance by any means but caused Parra problems all night and basically earned us 3 penalties with his lightening quick play the balls. Hannant and McGuire impressed me up-front, Hoffy was as dependable as ever at the back despite a difficult assignment & Wallace's passing and kicking game looked dangerous at times.

For Parra, despite clocking up a lot of errors the forwards made some good ground. Mannah, Allgood & Hindy in particular just kept driving them forward all night. Really liked the look of Sandow, he looked really composed out there and his kicking game in the first half was faultless.

Sio looks a decent prospect but had to laugh at the jizzing over the uncontested take in the in-goal. Looked spectacular and he made some good ground off of it but you would have sworn it was a length of the field try the way Rabs and co. carried on.

Round 1, terrible game, hope the standard improves tonight and for the rest of the week.
 

wibble

Bench
Messages
4,661
I thought Wallace had a shocking game and Sandow was no better.

Thaiday was ineffective as he kept trying to be Lockyer.

Sandow was much poorer at the back end of the game (when they needed him to step up) but he'd lost his 5/8 by then. I think with him and Roberts (who also had some errors but was much better than I expected) together and with Hayne, they might be quite good. We can't be sure yet, but some of their play was encouraging.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
91,406
Yeah, but aside from the dropped pill, which both teams suffered from, why do you think we were continuously in your half of the field?

Well it obviously wasn't from your forwards making more metres than ours so it must have been the dropped ball and penalties.

What else could it have been?

Mannah was very good, as was Algood, but that is really where the buck stops as far as the Eels forwards go.

And out of your forwards Corey Parker was the only one who stood out.

We have a more balanced pack, allowing all of the forwards to share the load.

You have better edge forwards with more depth, which is why you were able to move Thaiday to the front-row and still carry Gillett on the bench.

But your forwards hardly dominated. Didn't you see the first half? In the end you won through better ball control and more attacking options. Not from winning the forwards battle.

iYou can't measure performance on runs only, defense counts for something as well

Ok but do you understand the amount of metres one team makes on their runs directly reflects on the other team's defence?

but in a game where both teams had 50% possession, these are the stats for the forwards only:

Brisbane had 95 runs for 666 meters, against the Eels 77 runs for 524 meters.

http://live.nrlstats.com/matches/nrl/match12958.html

NRL Stats says different:

Eels: 89 runs for 695m
Broncos: 89 runs for 625m

We made more metres overall and more metres per run, as one would expect having better front-rowers.

We had 7 offloads against Eels 0

NRL Stats says 13 offloads to 2.

0 ineffective tackles against 15

NRL Stats says 2 to 19.

9 missed tackles against 23

Actually 15 against 37.

17 tackle breaks against 5.

38 to 15.

If that doesn't reflect domination, I don't know what will...

Computer says no.

Those stats you've quoted sure do reflect domination but they are team stats - so they include backs such as Hoffman, Reed and Hodges, who blew out your tackle break stats (backs always have the most tackle breaks - a few years ago Matt Bowen set the record for most tackle breaks in a season so it's a pretty useless stat for measuring forward dominance). Hodges alone got 6 of your team's 13 offloads. That's nearly half if you weren't sure.

Nobody's denying the Broncos were far too good on the night, as you'd expect - the Broncos already have the strongest roster every year, plus last night they were up against a team missing two of their best players.

But the Broncos were pretty average in the forwards, which is why they used their big strong backs so much. You probably think your forwards dominated because that's what you were hoping to see, and therefore only remember the individual tackles/runs where they did - we call that 'confirmation bias'.

But the stats represent moments in the match, and they show that the Eels forwards had more strong moments than the Broncos forwards, even though there would have been accasions over the 80 minutes where the Broncos forwards got it over the Eels forwards.

But overall, as a forwards battle, the Eels won last night. It was our backs that let us down, or more to the point, your backs played so well that ours really had nothing.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
91,406
First half from Eels was promising, I like the new look Sandow game. Less panic to it, a more composed halfback injecting himself when necessary. Sure he made some mistakes, though in the short and long term, Sandow is going to come up trumps for the Eels. I look forward to seeing where this team is at when a healthy Hayne is back in the line up with Sandow. Their forwards are serviceable, their two match winners can win them games.

As for the Broncos, typical start to the season. They are a good side and will only get better as their halves grow in confidence. They lacked some direction last night at times. The leadership of Civoniceva will be priceless in the post Lockyer transition. Thaiday is more Langer as a leader, as in he will lead with his actions more so words. I think he will become a good leader, I'd still have preferred Parker.

It's round one, long way to go before we start handing out wooden spoons.

Damn straight.

On paper the Eels are a mid-table side, just like ten or so other teams. By the end of the season we'll be in the mix for a spot in the bottom half of the top 8.
 

Y2Eel

First Grade
Messages
8,176
Yeah, but aside from the dropped pill, which both teams suffered from, why do you think we were continuously in your half of the field?

Mannah was very good, as was Algood, but that is really where the buck stops as far as the Eels forwards go.
We have a more balanced pack, allowing all of the forwards to share the load.

You can't measure performance on runs only, defense counts for something as well, but in a game where both teams had 50% possession, these are the stats for the forwards only:

Brisbane had 95 runs for 666 meters, against the Eels 77 runs for 524 meters. We had 7 offloads against Eels 0, 0 ineffective tackles against 15, 9 missed tackles against 23, 17 tackle breaks against 5.

If that doesn't reflect domination, I don't know what will...


Yeah you got your stats from the NRL web site and still got them wrong?

Pou Pou will do the more detailed stats later i guess but this is what i quickly came up with with just All runs and all metres for the forwards for both teams not including the hookers and Ben Hunt or casey McGuire,

I see how you got 666 for the broncos but how did you come up with just 524 for the eels you know Reni is a forward right?


Parra ran for 640 at 84 runs with an average of 7.62

Brisbane ran for 614 at 87 runs with an average run of 7.05

Domination hey? Eels made more missed tackles and more mistakes and still ran more more meters..
 

Big Pete

Referee
Messages
29,116
Brisbane were camped inside your half a lot - not exactly an area where you're going to make a lot of metres.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
91,406
Brisbane were camped inside your half a lot - not exactly an area where you're going to make a lot of metres.

Yeah that's right. That's why it's odd that old mate would say their forwards were dominant.

The Eels' strength is front-row (plus halfback and fullback). There won't be many teams (if any) that beat us up the middle this year. That's why the Broncos' gameplan from the opening whistle was to get outside us - it's no coincidence that Hodges and Reed got so much early ball.
 
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Big Pete

Referee
Messages
29,116
I wouldn't say Brisbane dominated your forwards, but we evidently won the battle by the sheer amount of territory we had. Not bad for a side only fielding two front row forwards.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
91,406
I wouldn't say Brisbane dominated your forwards, but we evidently won the battle by the sheer amount of territory we had.

You obviously won the game. But the territory you won wasn't from forward domination or the metrage stats would reflect that.

Three of your top four metre-gainers were backs.

Not bad for a side only fielding two front row forwards.

I'll swap you the players you were missing for the ones we were missing any day.
 

Chip Bayless

Juniors
Messages
655
Still a bit disappointed with that effort.

Brisbane didn't bring the intensity last night and showed up with completely the wrong mind-set. Instead of being patient with our opportunities we kept trying to be too clever with the football and more times than not handed it straight back to Parra who were off and away.

Better second half...but still plenty of stupid errors from our boys. That kick off shmizzozle was pretty much the highlight of a s**t storm performance.

And honestly I'm not sure about Brisbane's defence. Was their defence that great or was Parra's attack really pedestrian? I guess we'll just never know.

Brisbane really missed Civo last night. As good a player as Sam is, he wasn't content to play a prop's game last night and tried to be too fancy when the order of the day was to run hard and direct.

Couple of good signs for both sides last night despite the low quality of football.

For Brisbane I thought Hodges looked as sharp as he did back before the shoulder injury in 2008. Not a stellar performance by any means but caused Parra problems all night and basically earned us 3 penalties with his lightening quick play the balls. Hannant and McGuire impressed me up-front, Hoffy was as dependable as ever at the back despite a difficult assignment & Wallace's passing and kicking game looked dangerous at times.

For Parra, despite clocking up a lot of errors the forwards made some good ground. Mannah, Allgood & Hindy in particular just kept driving them forward all night. Really liked the look of Sandow, he looked really composed out there and his kicking game in the first half was faultless.

Sio looks a decent prospect but had to laugh at the jizzing over the uncontested take in the in-goal. Looked spectacular and he made some good ground off of it but you would have sworn it was a length of the field try the way Rabs and co. carried on.

Round 1, terrible game, hope the standard improves tonight and for the rest of the week.

Very good post and summary.
 

Big Pete

Referee
Messages
29,116
But the territory you won wasn't from forward domination or the metrage stats would reflect that.

Defensively they forced a few mistakes from your forwards and your forwards were terribly ill-discipline. You might not think that counts for a lot but it does to me and evidently the scoreboard.

I'll swap you the players you were missing for the ones we were missing any day.

Any of them forwards?

I don't consider Smith a loss either.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
91,406
Defensively they forced a few mistakes from your forwards and your forwards were terribly ill-discipline. You might not think that counts for a lot but it does to me and evidently the scoreboard.

I already said they had their moments.

But the Broncos forwards made 8 errors and conceded 6 penalties. They made 89 runs for 625 metres.

Parra's forwards made 6 errors and conceded 5 penalties. They made 89 runs for 695 metres.

You still want to tell me the Broncos dominated in the forwards?

Any of them forwards?

I don't consider Smith a loss either.

He's possibly our best defender - similar workrate to Hindy but hurts people in defence. He's a guaranteed starting player and part of the club's leadership group. He's a big loss.
 
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Big Pete

Referee
Messages
29,116
Don't care about numbers - compare the actual errors on their own merit and the Brisbane pack was no where near as bad as the Eels in that regard.

Again, never said the Broncos dominated in the forwards, just superior on the night.

He's possibly our best defender - similar workrate to Hindy but hurts people in defence. He's a guaranteed starting player and part of the club's leadership group. He's a big loss.

Smith makes half the amount of tackles of Hindmarsh, has hands for feet and offers stuff all in attack.

Not even in Hindy's league, let alone Civo's.
 

AuDragon

Juniors
Messages
2,253
Those stats you've quoted sure do reflect domination but they are team stats - so they include backs such as Hoffman, Reed and Hodges, who blew out your tackle break stats (backs always have the most tackle breaks - a few years ago Matt Bowen set the record for most tackle breaks in a season so it's a pretty useless stat for measuring forward dominance). Hodges alone got 6 of your team's 13 offloads. That's nearly half if you weren't sure.
My stats are from NRLStats.com as well.
My numbers were the live ones, the final count is different and I didn't count Maitua as a forward.

You're quoting the total stats for all players...
 
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