17th TEAM

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Regarding NZ2 let's do some maths here. The Warriors despite being a basket case have got a fair bit more than half the Broncos average the last few years in a smaller city. So if Brisbane can fit 4, Auckland alone can fit 2 based off those numbers. They are next to no chance for the 17th or 18th, mainly because there is no bid, although formal expressions haven't really been asked for by the NRL. I wouldn't rule them out completely, you say Rugby Union then daylight but League still has a good presence in the country and produces a lot of players.

Adelaide I could take or leave. The assumption is that they will have a bid to be a chance in the 19th-20th team range, whether that happens or not isn't up for me to debate, time will tell.

I don't think we need to go over the 4 teams in Brisbane again because it's clear we disagree. Personally I'd say 2 Brisbane (North & South) would be enough then look at Ipswich or Sunshine Coast when they're big enough to go it alone, maybe CQ as a very outside chance. If someone in North Lakes or Rochedale can't find a team to support out of that scenario when there's 3-4 within an hours(ish) drive then stiff shit.

Do you have any evidence that there are RL fans in Auckland not attending Warriors games because they hate them?

Th Donkeys average 34,000 because a large segment of its RL community despise them for what they did to the BRL, Crushers, Chargers and their role in Super League. TV ratings for Brissie are through the roof because it is a RL mad city and the second largest RL city on Earth. Auckland does not draw TV ratings like Brissie because Auckland prefers RU.

 

[flippikat]

Let them go bankrupt, then the NRL can takeover them and make the necessary changes themselves, then when the club's ready sell them to the highest bidder.

Basically do what they did with the Knights and Titans but on a larger scale.

Good idea.

"North Shore Sea-Eagles" or "North Harbour Sea-Eagles" has a nice ring to it.

It also preserves the Central Coast as a relocation destination for another Sydney club, if need be.

 

[mongoose]

Definitely agree with that. But if Manly are unwilling and/or unable to engage with "all parts north of the bridge", what then?

I can see them going cap-in-hand to the NRL, asking for a bailout.. the NRL surely would have to put some sort of strings on that, if the Sea-Eagles are serious about being part of the top tier.

If Manly are financially ok and their sugar daddy is willing to keep ploughing money into them then they don't have to engage other areas and why would they really? They have won a comp every decade since 1970, they are a club that knows how to win and they know what works for them. I reckon they are like a cockroach and would be one the last clubs standing if shit was to really hit the fan.

 

[Perth Red]

Do you have any evidence that there are RL fans in Auckland not attending Warriors games because they hate them?

Th Donkeys average 34,000 because a large segment of its RL community despise them for what they did to the BRL, Crushers, Chargers and their role in Super League. TV ratings for Brissie are through the roof because it is a RL mad city and the second largest RL city on Earth. Auckland does not draw TV ratings like Brissie because Auckland prefers RU.

nrl fta games rate between 90-110k usually for non broncos games in Brisbane, I wouldn’t say they are through the roof.

 

[jim_57]

Do you have any evidence that there are RL fans in Auckland not attending Warriors games because they hate them?

Th Donkeys average 34,000 because a large segment of its RL community despise them for what they did to the BRL, Crushers, Chargers and their role in Super League. TV ratings for Brissie are through the roof because it is a RL mad city and the second largest RL city on Earth. Auckland does not draw TV ratings like Brissie because Auckland prefers RU.

I'm no Auckland expert but I'd wager there's quite a few who don't attend because the Warriors have been a running joke on the field for a long time.

I don't think not being the biggest sport in a city is as big a deal as you think it is. That's kind of what expansion is in my mind, trying to grow the game and the supporter base.

Melbourne Storm for example will never even come close to being the biggest club in Melbourne, but for Rugby League they add 17oddthousand fans attendinh a fortnight that wouldn't be attending if they weren't there. As for being drowned out by the media again that's to be expected, I'll say though in my 4 years living here I've seen very few cases of people people openly hostile towards the Storm.

I'd consider Brisbane 2 a more safe option, sure they'll probably be reasonably well supported but not too many of their fans will be new to Rugby League. I don't expect 2, 3 or 4 NRL teams to kill off the Lions, 9 Sydney teams can't kill off the Swans or GWS. Maybe the Reds but that would probably be more a case of them going down with Onion in Australia in general.

I think what a lot of people want on here is some ambition mixed in with consolidation. Piling teams on top of each other in Brisbane and leaving Perth, Adelaide & NZ2 to rot shows very little faith in our game & product being able to win over new fans.

 

[jim_57]

Good idea.

"North Shore Sea-Eagles" or "North Harbour Sea-Eagles" has a nice ring to it.

It also preserves the Central Coast as a relocation destination for another Sydney club, if need be.

This probably isn't a popular opinion but I often wonder what could have been if they'd stuck with the Northern Eagles concept.

 

[Perth Red]

This probably isn't a popular opinion but I often wonder what could have been if they'd stuck with the Northern Eagles concept.

Bears wouldn't have been able to pay the bills and we'd have ended up like the other two mergers maybe? What was a travesty was that the NRL didn't have a "make it work or lose the license" clause with the license being attached to Gosford. So if it didnt work either club could make a bid to be the CC team. Our administration really has been terrible over the years.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

nrl fta games rate between 90-110k usually for non broncos games in Brisbane, I wouldn’t say they are through the roof.

"In Brisbane, the highest rating game was Round 2s Brisbane v North Queensland fixture which rated 240,000. 8.743 million people watched on Nine during the season at an average audience of 123,000 per game. Matches involving the Broncos average 173,000 for the season, while Queensland sides averaged 157,000. Matches involving two out of state teams rated an average of 107,000.​

Outside of the two main cities, the highest rating game in Melbourne/Adelaide/Perth was the 66,000 who watched Melbourne v Brisbane in Round 1. The same game also had the highest rating regional audience with 325,000."

http://www.footyindustry.com/?p=4923
​

This is why 3 or 4 teams in Brisbane is a must. When no Queensland team is playing 50,000 viewers are lost. When Brisbane is playing, an extra 70,000 viewers tune in. That's a huge number and one the FTAs would be aware of. 3 teams mean a Brisbane team can be broadcast on FTA into Brisbane on Thur, Fri and Sun. A 4th Brissie team means you can do all of that and have a local derby, which would draw wven higher ratings.

The highest rating Melbourne game across all three of the fumbleball cities only drew 66,000 combined, and it was against a Brissie team.

240,000 for Cowboys vs Broncos in Brissie alone. Add 2 or 3 Brissie teams and you will get that rating whenever they play in a true local derby after they've had a few years to establish a rivalry.

 

[The Great Dane]

If Manly are financially ok and their sugar daddy is willing to keep ploughing money into them then they don't have to engage other areas and why would they really? They have won a comp every decade since 1970, they are a club that knows how to win and they know what works for them. I reckon they are like a cockroach and would be one the last clubs standing if shit was to really hit the fan.

Manly are a financial basket case that are totally reliant on Scott Penn (their owner), he has been trying to reduce his investment in the club for a while now and rumours abound that the cost has got too much and that he's looking into potentially offloading them.

Who knows what happens when the money dries up, but it won't be good for the Sea Eagles.

 

[The Great Dane]

Bears wouldn't have been able to pay the bills and we'd have ended up like the other two mergers maybe? What was a travesty was that the NRL didn't have a "make it work or lose the license" clause with the license being attached to Gosford. So if it didnt work either club could make a bid to be the CC team. Our administration really has been terrible over the years.

You know you don't really need the Bears to have the Northern Eagles...

 

[The Great Dane]

"In Brisbane, the highest rating game was Round 2s Brisbane v North Queensland fixture which rated 240,000. 8.743 million people watched on Nine during the season at an average audience of 123,000 per game. Matches involving the Broncos average 173,000 for the season, while Queensland sides averaged 157,000. Matches involving two out of state teams rated an average of 107,000.​

Outside of the two main cities, the highest rating game in Melbourne/Adelaide/Perth was the 66,000 who watched Melbourne v Brisbane in Round 1. The same game also had the highest rating regional audience with 325,000."

http://www.footyindustry.com/?p=4923
​

This is why 3 or 4 teams in Brisbane is a must. When no Queensland team is playing 50,000 viewers are lost. When Brisbane is playing, an extra 70,000 viewers tune in. That's a huge number and one the FTAs would be aware of. 3 teams mean a Brisbane team can be broadcast on FTA into Brisbane on Thur, Fri and Sun. A 4th Brissie team means you can do all of that and have a local derby, which would draw wven higher ratings.

The highest rating Melbourne game across all three of the fumbleball cities only drew 66,000 combined, and it was against a Brissie team.

240,000 for Cowboys vs Broncos in Brissie alone. Add 2 or 3 Brissie teams and you will get that rating whenever they play in a true local derby after they've had a few years to establish a rivalry.

It's always the same BS circular logic with this guy.

'They can't have a team because they don't have a large enough fan base, they can't build a large enough fan base because they don't have a team, so they can't have a team because the fan base isn't large enough' and round and round the defeatist self fulfilling prophecy goes.

I wonder what the NRL's rating were in Melbourne before the Storm or the AFL's in Sydney before the Swans? Something tells me that they are a lot higher now than they were then, and assuming there isn't a catastrophe they'll be even larger in twenty years time then they are now.

 

[Perth Red]

Manly are a financial basket case that are totally reliant on Scott Penn (their owner), he has been trying to reduce his investment in the club for a while now and rumours abound that the cost has got too much and that he's looking into potentially offloading them.

Who knows what happens when the money dries up, but it won't be good for the Sea Eagles.

There is rumored to be a group waiting to buy them so its unlikely much will change.

 

[Perth Red]

You know you don't really need the Bears to have the Northern Eagles...

You dont need either of them tbf! I guess there is some advantage to one of them being the CC club.

 

[Perth Red]

It's always the same BS circular logic with this guy.

'They can't have a team because they don't have a large enough fan base, they can't build a large enough fan base because they don't have a team, so they can't have a team because the fan base isn't large enough' and round and round the defeatist self fulfilling prophecy goes.

I wonder what the NRL's rating were in Melbourne before the Storm or the AFL's in Sydney before the Swans? Something tells me that they are a lot higher now than they were then, and assuming there isn't a catastrophe they'll be even larger in twenty years time then they are now.

Sounds like Ch9's argument for not showing NRL on main channel outside two states!

Rd 4 we got a glimpse of the NRL potential in Melbourne if we had a decent FTA partner!

Storm v Souths
One of the largest Metro ratings for the game this year (Sydney 206,000 Melbourne 96,000 Brisbane 120,000)
Rated higher (metro) than any Friday night Broncos game this season. If you really wanted to boost FTA metro ratings you'd get Storm on a Friday night and have FTA showing it on main channel in Melbourne!

 

[Perth Red]

"In Brisbane, the highest rating game was Round 2s Brisbane v North Queensland fixture which rated 240,000. 8.743 million people watched on Nine during the season at an average audience of 123,000 per game. Matches involving the Broncos average 173,000 for the season, while Queensland sides averaged 157,000. Matches involving two out of state teams rated an average of 107,000.​

Outside of the two main cities, the highest rating game in Melbourne/Adelaide/Perth was the 66,000 who watched Melbourne v Brisbane in Round 1. The same game also had the highest rating regional audience with 325,000."

http://www.footyindustry.com/?p=4923
​

This is why 3 or 4 teams in Brisbane is a must. When no Queensland team is playing 50,000 viewers are lost. When Brisbane is playing, an extra 70,000 viewers tune in. That's a huge number and one the FTAs would be aware of. 3 teams mean a Brisbane team can be broadcast on FTA into Brisbane on Thur, Fri and Sun. A 4th Brissie team means you can do all of that and have a local derby, which would draw wven higher ratings.

The highest rating Melbourne game across all three of the fumbleball cities only drew 66,000 combined, and it was against a Brissie team.

240,000 for Cowboys vs Broncos in Brissie alone. Add 2 or 3 Brissie teams and you will get that rating whenever they play in a true local derby after they've had a few years to establish a rivalry.

Problem with those stats is they are over simplified. And by that I mean if the FTA game in the peak viewing time is always Broncos then by its very nature Broncos games will always draw bigger audiences. You'd have to compare like for like by looking at Broncos games on Friday nights v other games on Friday nights and Broncos games on Thursday/Sunday likewise. Comparing Broncos games on Friday night to non Broncos games on Sunday afternoon is comparing apples and oranges. Then you'd have to factor in if there is a drop off in Sydney viewers for games featuring a Brisbane side to see if there is any net gain. Ill do a quick look at this season for comparison

 

[Perth Red]

A bit more of an accurate comparison. Data from Tvtonight.com

Friday night FTA games (Metro only)

Games featuring broncos:
Metro total Sydney Brisbane

Cowboys v Broncos
390,000 185,000 205,000

Broncos v Rabbitohs
359,000 178,000 181,000


Games not featuring Broncos

Roosters v Dragons
422,000 268,000 154,000

Storm v Souths
422,000 206,000 96,000 120,000

Eels v Panthers
304,000 204,000 100,000

Panthers v Storm
297,000 184,000 113,000

Roosters v Souths
422,000 268,000 154,000

Friday Brisbane audience avg
games featuring Broncos 193k
games not featuring Broncos 128k

Overall per game avg +65k Brisbane viewers -45k Sydney viewers for Friday games featuring Broncos. Net gain 20k for Broncos games on a Friday night.

Thursday night games featuring Broncos (Metro only)

Broncos v Eels
535,000 (Sydney 286,000 Brisbane 249,000)

Broncos v Roosters
342,000 (Sydney 211,000 Brisbane 131,000)

Manly v Broncos
377,000 (Sydney 195,000 Brisbane 182,000)

Knights v Broncos
301,000 (Sydney 163,000 Brisbane 138,000)

Thursday not featuring Brisbane

Eels v Bulldogs
391,000 (Sydney 247,000 Brisbane 144,000)

Panthers v Rabbits
353,000 (Sydney 247,000 Brisbane 106,000)

Thursday Brisbane audience avg
Featuring Broncos 175k
Not featuring Broncos 125k

Overall +50k avg Brisbane viewers -80k Sydney viewers. Net loss 30k metro viewers for Broncos games on a Thursday

I'll keep a tally as season goes through as interesting to look at.Broncos form obviously is a bit of a negative impacter this year.

 

[Pippen94]

Sounds like Ch9's argument for not showing NRL on main channel outside two states!

Rd 4 we got a glimpse of the NRL potential in Melbourne if we had a decent FTA partner!

Storm v Souths
One of the largest Metro ratings for the game this year (Sydney 206,000 Melbourne 96,000 Brisbane 120,000)
Rated higher (metro) than any Friday night Broncos game this season. If you really wanted to boost FTA metro ratings you'd get Storm on a Friday night and have FTA showing it on main channel in Melbourne!

9 aren't going to show Storm on main channel in Melbourne just like 7 don't show swans. 96k sounds good but repeat of sister act 2 gets higher rating

 

[Pippen94]

A bit more of an accurate comparison. Data from Tvtonight.com

Friday night FTA games (Metro only)

Games featuring broncos:
Metro total Sydney Brisbane

Cowboys v Broncos
390,000 185,000 205,000

Broncos v Rabbitohs
359,000 178,000 181,000


Games not featuring Broncos

Roosters v Dragons
422,000 268,000 154,000

Storm v Souths
422,000 206,000 96,000 120,000

Eels v Panthers
304,000 204,000 100,000

Panthers v Storm
297,000 184,000 113,000

Roosters v Souths
422,000 268,000 154,000

Friday Brisbane audience avg
games featuring Broncos 193k
games not featuring Broncos 128k

Overall per game avg +65k Brisbane viewers -45k Sydney viewers for Friday games featuring Broncos. Net gain 20k for Broncos games on a Friday night.

Thursday night games featuring Broncos (Metro only)

Broncos v Eels
535,000 (Sydney 286,000 Brisbane 249,000)

Broncos v Roosters
342,000 (Sydney 211,000 Brisbane 131,000)

Manly v Broncos
377,000 (Sydney 195,000 Brisbane 182,000)

Knights v Broncos
301,000 (Sydney 163,000 Brisbane 138,000)

Thursday not featuring Brisbane

Eels v Bulldogs
391,000 (Sydney 247,000 Brisbane 144,000)

Panthers v Rabbits
353,000 (Sydney 247,000 Brisbane 106,000)

Thursday Brisbane audience avg
Featuring Broncos 175k
Not featuring Broncos 125k

Overall +50k avg Brisbane viewers -80k Sydney viewers. Net loss 30k metro viewers for Broncos games on a Thursday

I'll keep a tally as season goes through as interesting to look at.Broncos form obviously is a bit of a negative impacter this year.

Broncos form shit this year - makes case stronger for extra team. Should be apparent even to somebody with agenda like you that games involving Brisbane & Sydney engage two biggest rugby league markets & result in biggest rating.

 

[Pippen94]

It's always the same BS circular logic with this guy.

'They can't have a team because they don't have a large enough fan base, they can't build a large enough fan base because they don't have a team, so they can't have a team because the fan base isn't large enough' and round and round the defeatist self fulfilling prophecy goes.

I wonder what the NRL's rating were in Melbourne before the Storm or the AFL's in Sydney before the Swans? Something tells me that they are a lot higher now than they were then, and assuming there isn't a catastrophe they'll be even larger in twenty years time then they are now.

Here we go - can't be bothered to do research but still posts plenty of opinion.
In Sydney swans average 50k, midgets 30k, all afl games 29k. For comparison netball on Sunday does 30k.
All NRL games in Melbourne average under 20k.
This is why NRL want team in Brisbane & why Brisbane 3 will come before Perth

 

[jim_57]

Brisbane will have their 2nd team soon when V'landys forbids Storm to go back to filthy Victoria.