17th TEAM

[jim_57]

Foundations and everything were built to hold a 50k stadium down the line, but then the roof design came later and doesnt allow for this to happen, would have to be torn down and rebuilt

Bit of a shame, unlikely to really be a problem anytime soon though.

 

[flippikat]

I can't see them staying at 17 for all that long, they might not be shouting it from the rooftops but surely an 18th team would follow within 5 years.

Looking at it positively 2nd team in Brisbane has been nailed on for some time as one of the next 2 teams. If V'landys wants to make it happen that is better than the 'will we, won't we, oops self interest says no' we've seen for the last 12 years. V'landys will be gone in a few years anyway, then the next person can make the call on an obvious need for an 18th team.

I do worry though that if V'landys does hang around we'd end up with Central Coast North Sydney Bears as the 18th.

I agree with all of those points - but your initial comment about a 17 team competition is particularly pertinent.

If you look at the rugby league & AFL competitions over the last 40 years (NSWRL, ARL, NRL, VFL, and AFL), one thing that stands out is that having an odd number of teams never lasts for long.

If the NRL adds a 17th team, odds are that an 18th will follow soon after - especially if V'Landys means what he says about protecting existing clubs from oblivion. Like you say, I'd give it 5 years at most before we go from 17 to 18.

 

[T to the T]

I agree, once 17 is in play, 18 is definitely on the table.

Common sense dictates Perth should be the 18th side, however as per V'Landys comments so far, is Northern Bears (North Sydney and Central Coast) or even another SEQ side more likely now?

 

[jim_57]

I agree, once 17 is in play, 18 is definitely on the table.

Common sense dictates Perth should be the 18th side, however as per V'Landys comments so far, is Northern Bears (North Sydney and Central Coast) or even another SEQ side more likely now?

Another Brisbane side would be a risk so soon after the 2nd. They could look at Ipswich or Sunshine Coast but I don't think either is big enough to sustain an NRL team by themselves just yet.

Central Coast/North Sydney is my worry, it shouldn't be but with this guy in charge it's a genuine concern.

If they pick either as 18th you can probably rule out one of Adelaide, Perth or NZ2 completely. I don't see the NRL going beyond 20 teams any time soon.

 

[flippikat]

Another Brisbane side would be a risk so soon after the 2nd. They could look at Ipswich or Sunshine Coast but I don't think either is big enough to sustain an NRL team by themselves just yet.

Central Coast/North Sydney is my worry, it shouldn't be but with this guy in charge it's a genuine concern.

If they pick either as 18th you can probably rule out one of Adelaide, Perth or NZ2 completely. I don't see the NRL going beyond 20 teams any time soon.

My hope is that V'Landys gets the 2nd Brisbane team in as team 17 (My preference is either Firebirds or Western Corridor), then he moves on reasonably soon afterwards. Then the next Chairman - with a more open attitude towards AFL-land - adds a team in Perth as the 18th club to end the awkward weekly bye & add a new timeslot option.

 

[jim_57]

My hope is that V'Landys gets the 2nd Brisbane team in as team 17 (My preference is either Firebirds or Western Corridor), then he moves on reasonably soon afterwards. Then the next Chairman - with a more open attitude towards AFL-land - adds a team in Perth as the 18th club to end the awkward weekly bye & add a new timeslot option.

Yeh either that or if V'landys stays we get a CEO with the balls to stand up to him on matters like this and balance out his Sydney-Brisbane-centric views.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Brisbane needs to have a total of 3 teams within the next 10-15 years to lock out our competitors. We're seeing now that having a 1 team town is terrible for the game when it is battling for the spoon. Having a total of 3 teams will make the odds of no Brisbane side making the finals unlikely.

Greater Brisbane is expanding rapidly and the infrastructure is failing to keep up with the population boom. Getting from the outskirts to Lang Park is not an easy feat and it will only get harder. At some stage Brisbane 2 will need to move to the southeast, Brisbane 3 should be based in Moreton Bay and Brisbane 4 in Ipswich. You guys don't want 3 or 4 Brissie teams, but in 30 or 40 years there will be 3 or 4 teams up here and the population will justify it, if it doesn't already.

I reckon Manly Warringah should relocate to Gosford. There's a great stadium there and Brookvale is a shithole. Central Coast Sea Eagles.

NZ2 and Adelaide will never happen. There's only 1 city in NZ that has a metropolitan area of over 1,000,000 and it already has a team. Its average attendance suggests it isn't big enough to sustain 2 clubs and no where else in NZ can do it. Ipswich, Logan and Moreton Bay can do it as RL is the number 1 game in Queensland. In NZ it is RU first and daylight second.

There is no interest for a team in Adelaide from the local business community or society in general.

 

[flippikat]

Brisbane needs to have a total of 3 teams within the next 10-15 years to lock out our competitors. We're seeing now that having a 1 team town is terrible for the game when it is battling for the spoon. Having a total of 3 teams will make the odds of no Brisbane side making the finals unlikely.

Best case scenario for Brisbane, we get Brisbane 2 next, then Perth... then Brisbane 3 in the following phase of expansion alongside probably Adelaide.

That's 20 teams with a decent profile across Australia, and the Warriors.

From there, if we need a 2nd NZ team... or 2nd Perth team (guaranteed late game every weekend), or a 2nd Melbourne team, the focus needs to go on rationalization in Sydney because 20 clubs is IMO the very upper limit of what the top tier can sustain.

 

[Perth Red]

Yeh either that or if V'landys stays we get a CEO with the balls to stand up to him on matters like this and balance out his Sydney-Brisbane-centric views.

maybe the other commissioners have more balls. I know Cumins was writing to each of them individually to make the case for a Perth club. End of day commission has to have a majority vote to carry a decision.

 

[Perth Red]

Brisbane needs to have a total of 3 teams within the next 10-15 years to lock out our competitors. We're seeing now that having a 1 team town is terrible for the game when it is battling for the spoon. Having a total of 3 teams will make the odds of no Brisbane side making the finals unlikely.

Greater Brisbane is expanding rapidly and the infrastructure is failing to keep up with the population boom. Getting from the outskirts to Lang Park is not an easy feat and it will only get harder. At some stage Brisbane 2 will need to move to the southeast, Brisbane 3 should be based in Moreton Bay and Brisbane 4 in Ipswich. You guys don't want 3 or 4 Brissie teams, but in 30 or 40 years there will be 3 or 4 teams up here and the population will justify it, if it doesn't already.

I reckon Manly Warringah should relocate to Gosford. There's a great stadium there and Brookvale is a shithole. Central Coast Sea Eagles.

NZ2 and Adelaide will never happen. There's only 1 city in NZ that has a metropolitan area of over 1,000,000 and it already has a team. Its average attendance suggests it isn't big enough to sustain 2 clubs and no where else in NZ can do it. Ipswich, Logan and Moreton Bay can do it as RL is the number 1 game in Queensland. In NZ it is RU first and daylight second.

There is no interest for a team in Adelaide from the local business community or society in general.

what if all 3 are crap one year, should we add a 4th in case? Or maybe a 5th? Eventually you’ll have enough to not have that risk lol

Another club in Brisbane, Perth, Adelaide and nz2 in next twenty years needs to be the vision and sets up RL for the next 50 years.

 

[blue bags]

i see a melbourne 2, before i see a perth 2 , i dont know where you get a perth2 from, really

 

[jim_57]

Brisbane needs to have a total of 3 teams within the next 10-15 years to lock out our competitors. We're seeing now that having a 1 team town is terrible for the game when it is battling for the spoon. Having a total of 3 teams will make the odds of no Brisbane side making the finals unlikely.

Greater Brisbane is expanding rapidly and the infrastructure is failing to keep up with the population boom. Getting from the outskirts to Lang Park is not an easy feat and it will only get harder. At some stage Brisbane 2 will need to move to the southeast, Brisbane 3 should be based in Moreton Bay and Brisbane 4 in Ipswich. You guys don't want 3 or 4 Brissie teams, but in 30 or 40 years there will be 3 or 4 teams up here and the population will justify it, if it doesn't already.

I reckon Manly Warringah should relocate to Gosford. There's a great stadium there and Brookvale is a shithole. Central Coast Sea Eagles.

NZ2 and Adelaide will never happen. There's only 1 city in NZ that has a metropolitan area of over 1,000,000 and it already has a team. Its average attendance suggests it isn't big enough to sustain 2 clubs and no where else in NZ can do it. Ipswich, Logan and Moreton Bay can do it as RL is the number 1 game in Queensland. In NZ it is RU first and daylight second.

There is no interest for a team in Adelaide from the local business community or society in general.

Regarding NZ2 let's do some maths here. The Warriors despite being a basket case have got a fair bit more than half the Broncos average the last few years in a smaller city. So if Brisbane can fit 4, Auckland alone can fit 2 based off those numbers. They are next to no chance for the 17th or 18th, mainly because there is no bid, although formal expressions haven't really been asked for by the NRL. I wouldn't rule them out completely, you say Rugby Union then daylight but League still has a good presence in the country and produces a lot of players.

Adelaide I could take or leave. The assumption is that they will have a bid to be a chance in the 19th-20th team range, whether that happens or not isn't up for me to debate, time will tell.

I don't think we need to go over the 4 teams in Brisbane again because it's clear we disagree. Personally I'd say 2 Brisbane (North & South) would be enough then look at Ipswich or Sunshine Coast when they're big enough to go it alone, maybe CQ as a very outside chance. If someone in North Lakes or Rochedale can't find a team to support out of that scenario when there's 3-4 within an hours(ish) drive then stiff shit.

 

[ash the bash]

If NZ2 was really considered it would have to be in Auckland with the plan being having a game each week in NZ biggest city. Been fortunate to spend a bit of time in NZ, esp South Island. The RL fans I have met are super hardcore and keen to talk footy once they know your a leaguie. I can't see the fan support or corporate support to based anywhere else than Auckland. Maybe a couple of games in Christchurch/Dunedin but wont have enough support based their full time.

With league heartland in West/South Auckland would you base NZ2 at Mt smart ?

Warriors get strong and consistent first before any NZ2 personally.

 

[blue bags]

If NZ2 was really considered it would have to be in Auckland with the plan being having a game each week in NZ biggest city. Been fortunate to spend a bit of time in NZ, esp South Island. The RL fans I have met are super hardcore and keen to talk footy once they know your a leaguie. I can't see the fan support or corporate support to based anywhere else than Auckland. Maybe a couple of games in Christchurch/Dunedin but wont have enough support based their full time.

With league heartland in West/South Auckland would you base NZ2 at Mt smart ?

Warriors get strong and consistent first before any NZ2 personally.

fully agree, a game in Auckland every weekend, = crowds , TV ,
2 team rivalry , let it cook

 

[The Great Dane]

If NZ2 was really considered it would have to be in Auckland with the plan being having a game each week in NZ biggest city. Been fortunate to spend a bit of time in NZ, esp South Island. The RL fans I have met are super hardcore and keen to talk footy once they know your a leaguie. I can't see the fan support or corporate support to based anywhere else than Auckland. Maybe a couple of games in Christchurch/Dunedin but wont have enough support based their full time.

With league heartland in West/South Auckland would you base NZ2 at Mt smart ?

The NRL will never grow support outside of Auckland if they never expand outside of Auckland... Fans can't support teams that don't exist!

Personally I think the best way forward in NZ would be through an NRL backed second tier comp with pathways to the NRL. Whether or not the NRL has the gravitas, or the balls, to pull something like that off is another question though.

Warriors get strong and consistent first before any NZ2 personally.

If you base your plans on what the current clubs are doing then you'll halt progress forever, especially in the case of the Warriors, they're simply too comfortable and complacent. A local competitor would be the best thing that could ever happen to them.

 

[The Great Dane]

Adelaide I could take or leave. The assumption is that they will have a bid to be a chance in the 19th-20th team range, whether that happens or not isn't up for me to debate, time will tell.

If the NRL is ever going to grow to it's true potential then Adelaide is inevitable, the SA market is simply too important in the Australian market for it to be left on the table.

It's probably going to be the hardest nut for the NRL to crack, but they're going to have to crack it sooner or later.

 

[The Great Dane]

I reckon Manly Warringah should relocate to Gosford. There's a great stadium there and Brookvale is a shithole. Central Coast Sea Eagles.

It makes absolutely no sense to get rid of the only team in Northern Sydney.

What Manly needs is to change their target audience from just the Northern Beaches to all of Northern Sydney, they need to do it in a meaningful way (re-branding, maybe a new home ground, etc), and they need the NRL's support to do it.

In the short term they'll lose fans from the changes, but in the long term the changes will make them

 

[flippikat]

It makes absolutely no sense to get rid of the only team in Northern Sydney.

What Manly needs is to change their target audience from just the Northern Beaches to all of Northern Sydney, they need to do it in a meaningful way (re-branding, maybe a new home ground, etc), and they need the NRL's support to do it.

In the short term they'll lose fans from the changes, but in the long term the changes will make them

Definitely agree with that. But if Manly are unwilling and/or unable to engage with "all parts north of the bridge", what then?

I can see them going cap-in-hand to the NRL, asking for a bailout.. the NRL surely would have to put some sort of strings on that, if the Sea-Eagles are serious about being part of the top tier.

 

[The Great Dane]

Definitely agree with that. But if Manly are unwilling and/or unable to engage with "all parts north of the bridge", what then?

I can see them going cap-in-hand to the NRL, asking for a bailout.. the NRL surely would have to put some sort of strings on that, if the Sea-Eagles are serious about being part of the top tier.

Let them go bankrupt, then the NRL can takeover them and make the necessary changes themselves, then when the club's ready sell them to the highest bidder.

Basically do what they did with the Knights and Titans but on a larger scale.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Best case scenario for Brisbane, we get Brisbane 2 next, then Perth... then Brisbane 3 in the following phase of expansion alongside probably Adelaide.

That's 20 teams with a decent profile across Australia, and the Warriors.

From there, if we need a 2nd NZ team... or 2nd Perth team (guaranteed late game every weekend), or a 2nd Melbourne team, the focus needs to go on rationalization in Sydney because 20 clubs is IMO the very upper limit of what the top tier can sustain.

Adelaide will never happen. There is almost zero interest in South Australia for RL and it is by far the smallest of all the mainland states. It is a fumbleball wasteland and will offer nothing to sponsors or the RL community as no one will watch or play it.

Melbourne Storm have been the most successful team of the 21st century in Australian sport and they've managed to entice just 3 talented local juniors to progress into through to the NRL, and they were all of New Zealand origin. RL in Melbourne is lightyears ahead of Adelaide.

Perth has some chance as it plays the game, so I can see a team there at some stage. I just warn people to not expect a Perth team to get the concessions Melbourne has been gifted from day 1, as it is clear the NRL does not value the two cities to the same extent. It's a shame because Perth deserves a team far more than Melbourne. Life will be difficult for any team based in Perth that isn't dominant like Melbourne. The Perth media is fiercely pro-fumbleball and will view RL as a threat to "their" game. General interest from the public will be luke warm, at best, as RL is not something they've grown up with.