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18th club, whose next?

flippikat

Bench
Messages
3,053
The AFL is a cashed up juggernaut, NZRU is vulnerable with South Africa leaving SANZAAR and Australia just being shit.

There won't be the money in Super Rugby on offer that you could potentially get the NRL and money is everything. Rugby players will have to move to the other side of the world to get comparable salaries. From what I know pacific islanders have very close families so staying put in NZ or moving to Australia is a more appealing option even if they have to play a culturally less prestigious game in League.
You hit the nail on the head right there.

V'Landys realizes that rugby union is weakened right now, and there's potential to swoop on the player base from NZ and Pacific Islands via another NZ NRL team.
 

flippikat

Bench
Messages
3,053
2nd Auckland club would be a big risk and would pretty much cannibalise the Warriors. Not sure they could fit in a market that already has 2 super rugby franchises and 3 NPC teams to compete with alongside the Warriors.
Club based in BOP or Waikato is too close realistically to some who would travel to see the Warriors anyway plus too small of a market to compete against the chiefs and 2 more NPC clubs.

Wellington and Christchurch are pretty much neck and neck for population but Wellington has the advantage of another million odd people in the surrounding provinces- the whole of the South Island is barely a million and travel distance is too large to get regular travelling fans.
Together Wellington and Christchurch have a solid population with surrounding provinces but it’d be like a team based in Newcastle and Canberra but on different islands. It’s unlikely you’d get Wellington fans travel in large numbers to Chch and vice versa, Chch public would possibly struggle to support a north island team but aren’t large enough to support one on their own.

Lack of success of the Warriors is often cited as a reason not to include NZ 2 but many Kiwis support the Warriors simply because they are an NZ team. In reality the Warriors barely engage the rest of the country outside of Auckland which leaves another 3.5 million potential supporters for a 2nd side.

The biggest challenge league faces in NZ is simply not being an option to play in the majority of schools, at Club level in the provinces it is pretty heavily entrenched with gangs in many places which is a heavy deterrent.
I think long term the NRL should aim to have 3 NZ teams - Auckland, Christchurch & Wellington (probably added in that order). If we wanna make a run for the rugby talent here & in the Islands, it's the way to go.
 

ReddFelon

Juniors
Messages
1,484
You hit the nail on the head right there.

V'Landys realizes that rugby union is weakened right now, and there's potential to swoop on the player base from NZ and Pacific Islands via another NZ NRL team.


As of next year in New Zealand there will be 6 professional teams to play for, each fielding a 40 man squad. How is this weakened? There's never been more professional opportunities in New Zealand before, on top of the 14 semi-pro teams, how does a second NRL team do anything to lure the talent from 6 established teams with community identities?
 

Perth Red

Immortal
Messages
47,626
As of next year in New Zealand there will be 6 professional teams to play for, each fielding a 40 man squad. How is this weakened? There's never been more professional opportunities in New Zealand before, on top of the 14 semi-pro teams, how does a second NRL team do anything to lure the talent from 6 established teams with community identities?
Not to mention if the wages are so bad why has RTS just jumped ship? I'm not seeing Warriors signing many all blacks suggesting this idea that NRL is going to be the employer of choice because there's another club is just fanciful thinking.
 

mongoose

First Grade
Messages
8,899
As of next year in New Zealand there will be 6 professional teams to play for, each fielding a 40 man squad. How is this weakened? There's never been more professional opportunities in New Zealand before, on top of the 14 semi-pro teams, how does a second NRL team do anything to lure the talent from 6 established teams with community identities?
I don't follow Super Rugby but I question where it gets its money from and by money I am talking broadcast dollars. Is Moana Pacifika and Fiji going to add to the pie much? doubt it. The Australian conference gets a fraction of what the NRL gets. So unless the NZ networks are chipping in a lot, they must have some rich and generous business men behind the scene and some good sponsors.
 

flippikat

Bench
Messages
3,053
As of next year in New Zealand there will be 6 professional teams to play for, each fielding a 40 man squad. How is this weakened? There's never been more professional opportunities in New Zealand before, on top of the 14 semi-pro teams, how does a second NRL team do anything to lure the talent from 6 established teams with community identities?
You see, the thing with this "NZ 2 or Perth for team 18" argument is that it's a classic case of *false dilemma*

The NRL should be adding BOTH, and both as soon as possible.

By saying that we have 1 spot to fill after the Dolphins are added shuts the door on one really good expansion option.

I'd love the NRL to add BOTH Perth and NZ 2 at the same time in 3-4 years time, run a competition with 19 teams (and a weekly bye) for a handful of years, and say to other locations "Right.. what's your case for team 20?"
 
Messages
5,540
2nd Auckland club would be a big risk and would pretty much cannibalise the Warriors. Not sure they could fit in a market that already has 2 super rugby franchises and 3 NPC teams to compete with alongside the Warriors.
Club based in BOP or Waikato is too close realistically to some who would travel to see the Warriors anyway plus too small of a market to compete against the chiefs and 2 more NPC clubs.

Wellington and Christchurch are pretty much neck and neck for population but Wellington has the advantage of another million odd people in the surrounding provinces- the whole of the South Island is barely a million and travel distance is too large to get regular travelling fans.
Together Wellington and Christchurch have a solid population with surrounding provinces but it’d be like a team based in Newcastle and Canberra but on different islands. It’s unlikely you’d get Wellington fans travel in large numbers to Chch and vice versa, Chch public would possibly struggle to support a north island team but aren’t large enough to support one on their own.

Lack of success of the Warriors is often cited as a reason not to include NZ 2 but many Kiwis support the Warriors simply because they are an NZ team. In reality the Warriors barely engage the rest of the country outside of Auckland which leaves another 3.5 million potential supporters for a 2nd side.

The biggest challenge league faces in NZ is simply not being an option to play in the majority of schools, at Club level in the provinces it is pretty heavily entrenched with gangs in many places which is a heavy deterrent.
Would Christchurch accept a relocated Canterbury Bulldogs?

Change the club's colours to red and black.

Everyone's a winner.

1. One less blue coloured team.
2. One less Sydney team.
3. The congested southwestern corridor of Sydney is opened up so that The Tigers can rebrand as the Western Sydney Tigers and forge an identity.
4. Possibility of adding NZ 3 in the future.
5. Add Perth to make it an 18 team competition.
6. Sydney suburbanites will go into meltdown, providing lots of lulz.
 

flippikat

Bench
Messages
3,053
Would Christchurch accept a relocated Canterbury Bulldogs?

Change the club's colours to red and black.

Everyone's a winner.

1. One less blue coloured team.
2. One less Sydney team.
3. The congested southwestern corridor of Sydney is opened up so that The Tigers can rebrand as the Western Sydney Tigers and forge an identity.
4. Possibility of adding NZ 3 in the future.
5. Add Perth to make it an 18 team competition.
6. Sydney suburbanites will go into meltdown, providing lots of lulz.
Well, it's a pretty tenuous line of reasoning to base a relocation around just a shared name hehehe.. but to be honest I could live with any existing Sydney relocating to NZ (club colour change or not) and Perth added as team 18.
 

Matiunz

Juniors
Messages
32
Would Christchurch accept a relocated Canterbury Bulldogs?

Change the club's colours to red and black.

Everyone's a winner.

1. One less blue coloured team.
2. One less Sydney team.
3. The congested southwestern corridor of Sydney is opened up so that The Tigers can rebrand as the Western Sydney Tigers and forge an identity.
4. Possibility of adding NZ 3 in the future.
5. Add Perth to make it an 18 team competition.
6. Sydney suburbanites will go into meltdown, providing lots of lulz.
Ironically the Canterbury (NZ) nickname us the ‘Bulls’. Think it would be a harder sell to relocate an Australian team to NZ and get the public to accept them than relocating a Sydney team elsewhere in Aus.
But if any were to work this one would be an easier sell- use The Red/Black when playing at ‘home’ in CHCH and traditional blue and white playing ‘away’ in sydney - sydney still sees them for essentially half the comp and potentially gain an additional fan base
 
Messages
5,540
Well, it's a pretty tenuous line of reasoning to base a relocation around just a shared name hehehe.. but to be honest I could live with any existing Sydney relocating to NZ (club colour change or not) and Perth added as team 18.
Canterbury are recruiting well for next season. They could be competitive from day one in Christchurch.

A new team will struggle to sign enough quality players to be competitive.

Can an expansion team in non-RL territory afford to have a team that is as bad as the Knights were in the aftermath of the Tinkler era?

With how difficult things have been for The Dolphins in the player market, despite them being rich and embedded in RL heartland, it might make sense to have two relocations and two new teams. If another Sydney club relocates to Perth and takes its roster with them then The Firehawks can be the other new team. Brisbane 2 and 3 can afford a few shit years on field as Brisbane is RL heartland and the teams will be backed by rich Leagues Clubs. NZ 2 and Perth need to be strong, like Melbourne in 1998, to generate a following in non-RL territory.
 

ReddFelon

Juniors
Messages
1,484
I don't follow Super Rugby but I question where it gets its money from and by money I am talking broadcast dollars. Is Moana Pacifika and Fiji going to add to the pie much? doubt it. The Australian conference gets a fraction of what the NRL gets. So unless the NZ networks are chipping in a lot, they must have some rich and generous business men behind the scene and some good sponsors.

I can tell you that one, international broadcasters. On the current set up they have;

Supersport (Africa, not just SA, Supersport operates currently in 50 African countries)
ESPN in South America and Canada
Flosports in the USA
Wowow Japan
Canal+ France and other European countries
SKY UK and Italy
Telefonica Spain
Premier Sports which is basically every South East Asian country

What they do very cleverly and something that all Australian sports should be doing, is that they play the big Euro broadcasters off one another like the Premier League does. They put the rights up to auction, and the big companies pay overs solely to keep their content levels up and scare off competitors. The NRL should definitely be doing the same thing as it drives a huge uptake in broadcast even if the audience isn't massive because groups like Canal and Sky have money to burn and will outbid each other for stuff they don't even want.
 

Perth Red

Immortal
Messages
47,626
Do
Canterbury are recruiting well for next season. They could be competitive from day one in Christchurch.

A new team will struggle to sign enough quality players to be competitive.

Can an expansion team in non-RL territory afford to have a team that is as bad as the Knights were in the aftermath of the Tinkler era?

With how difficult things have been for The Dolphins in the player market, despite them being rich and embedded in RL heartland, it might make sense to have two relocations and two new teams. If another Sydney club relocates to Perth and takes its roster with them then The Firehawks can be the other new team. Brisbane 2 and 3 can afford a few shit years on field as Brisbane is RL heartland and the teams will be backed by rich Leagues Clubs. NZ 2 and Perth need to be strong, like Melbourne in 1998, to generate a following in non-RL territory.
dolphins are struggling because the nrl are idiots! They’ve rushed them in and not given them enough time to build a squad, they also stick with the dumb ass everyone is equal mentality instead of aiming for equity rather than equality. By that I mean the dolphins should be given salary cap dispensation for five years to sign players outside current nrl squads. dumb sport we are at times.
 
Messages
5,540
Do

dolphins are struggling because the nrl are idiots! They’ve rushed them in and not given them enough time to build a squad, they also stick with the dumb ass everyone is equal mentality instead of aiming for equity rather than equality. By that I mean the dolphins should be given salary cap dispensation for five years to sign players outside current nrl squads. dumb sport we are at times.
I see almost 12k fans flocked to see the Perth Wildcats' first home game of the season. Perth sure loves its sporting teams. I know it helps that the Wildcats have made the finals for the last 35 years straight and won 5 premierships over the last 8 seasons, but it shows what could be in Perth if they're given an NRL team as strong as the Storm. I think an NRL with a strong Storm and Pirates could pull larger GF numbers than AwFuL, especially if it's a West Coast vs Melbourne GF.

Now that Brisbane has a second team we should move Magic Round to Perth. The newly built Perth Stadium is far bigger and it would be a great holiday weekend for people from the east coast. They could have 2 games on a Friday, broadcast into the east coast at 7.30pm and 9.30pm. Sat and Sun can have a 5.30pm, 7.30pm and 9.30pm game.
 

jim_57

Bench
Messages
3,248
Slightly off topic why does any new team have to have the area’s traditional colours? See it all the time on here with WA, Christchurch, Wellington etc suggestions. A new team in Christchurch or Wellington should probably use unique colours to differentiate themselves from the Union club IMO, maybe with trim of the area colours.
 

MugaB

Bench
Messages
4,574
Slightly off topic why does any new team have to have the area’s traditional colours? See it all the time on here with WA, Christchurch, Wellington etc suggestions. A new team in Christchurch or Wellington should probably use unique colours to differentiate themselves from the Union club IMO, maybe with trim of the area colours.
Bit like canberras lime green, then added gold and blue stripes??

Maybe Perth Pirates can be a Dark Gold, with red and black trim..
A Christchurch team could don a White & Gold jersey and add red and black to its trim...
And Wellington can be a Teal/Jade and white with a gold and black trim...
Something different to the rest of the teams i suppose
 

jim_57

Bench
Messages
3,248
Bit like canberras lime green, then added gold and blue stripes??

Maybe Perth Pirates can be a Dark Gold, with red and black trim..
A Christchurch team could don a White & Gold jersey and add red and black to its trim...
And Wellington can be a Teal/Jade and white with a gold and black trim...
Something different to the rest of the teams i suppose

Yeh like that. WA could go Black & Gold as that doesn’t clash with Eagles, Dockers or anyone in the NRL but for Wellington or Christchurch I think they’d be mad to use the exact same colours as the Union club. This is club not rep.

Christchurch could go any colour and have black/red trim if necessary.
 

flippikat

Bench
Messages
3,053
Slightly off topic why does any new team have to have the area’s traditional colours? See it all the time on here with WA, Christchurch, Wellington etc suggestions. A new team in Christchurch or Wellington should probably use unique colours to differentiate themselves from the Union club IMO, maybe with trim of the area colours.
From this Wellingtonian's perspective, I'm definitely open to the idea.

Mind you, I've never really liked my city's traditional black & yellow colours.

Truth be told, growing up on the Kapiti Coast I cheer for Horowhenua-Kapiti in rugby (basically 3rd division, red white & blue), and central districts in cricket (green, black & gold).. with my allegiance in NPC rugby split between Wellington & Manawatu (Green & White)
 

Perth Red

Immortal
Messages
47,626
Slightly off topic why does any new team have to have the area’s traditional colours? See it all the time on here with WA, Christchurch, Wellington etc suggestions. A new team in Christchurch or Wellington should probably use unique colours to differentiate themselves from the Union club IMO, maybe with trim of the area colours.
Ironically no team in Perth actually uses the states colours for some reason.
Eagles blue/yellow
Dockers purple/white
Glory purple/silver/orange
Wildcats red/black
Scorchers orange/black
Fever Green
Force Blue/black
 
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