18th club, whose next?

[Pippen94]

Is that a question?

Considering the population of India is roughly 1.3 - 1.4 billion compared to England’s 60 million, I think it is safe to presume that there are more people (in the several millions) watching an Australia - India test match than an Ashes match even if you take out Australian viewing numbers which via the framing of the question you seem to think is the only important thing in this ‘debate’ (which is a naive at best or ignorant at worst)

Also can you stop using exclamation marks - it is mildly off putting. You don’t have to yell.

As grotd pointed out england wasn't competitive for 16 years & i can tell you during that period Pakistan came here twice in battles billed for the world title & those series never came anywhere near close to ashes hype.
Rivalries are a real an important part of sport & it's quite bizzare you'd suggest otherwise, but as we've seen with a certain member from the west, in face of overwhelming evidence ppl would rather die on hill than admit they got it wrong..!!

 

[Pippen94]

The Ashes will never diminish because it's been played for about 150 years. England's poor run from 1987 until 2004 didn't harm it. There will always be an appetite for it because it's the mother country vs their former colonial outpost and the oldest regularly played contest after the America's Cup.

Professionalism killed cricket outside of the "big three" countries. It's speculated that there will only be three countries playing Tests in the future. Countries like Zimbabwe only generate $1m per annum from broadcast rights and lose money playing Tests. Players from New Zealand can earn more playing in T20 leagues around the world than representing their country at Test level.

Remains to be seen what happens with test cricket. Hard for nations like Bangladesh to get good when they never here in Australia etc.

 

[Colk]

TV ratings are based on what a few thousand people are watched. Very flawed data every major event this year has copped a hammering.

Most of the rivalries Pippen mentioned began well before the NRL was formed, A new club won't have that

If Easts -Souths were last (hypothetically) do you think more people are to going watch that game than a top of the table or top 4 clash?

The hype around rivalries and that probably only extends to maybe Easts - Souths and maybe Parra - Penrith at this point in time (presuming that only Sydney based rivalries are legitimate of course) are just a by product of where these teams currently sit. If and when either one of these teams, or both, drop down the ladder than the hype and press will naturally fall to other contests.

 

[Iamback]

If Easts -Souths were last (hypothetically) do you think more people are to going watch that game than a top of the table or top 4 clash?

The hype around rivalries and that probably only extends to maybe Easts - Souths and maybe Parra - Penrith at this point in time (presuming that only Sydney based rivalries are legitimate of course) are just a by product of where these teams currently sit. If and when either one of these teams, or both, drop down the ladder than the hype and press will naturally fall to other contests.

Dragons and Bulldogs are poor. Good Friday and ANZAC Day rate well and draws crowds despite being one sided.

That is actual examples of a big supporter base of poor teams showing up

 

[Colk]

As grotd pointed out england wasn't competitive for 16 years & i can tell you during that period Pakistan came here twice in battles billed for the world title & those series never came anywhere near close to ashes hype.
Rivalries are a real an important part of sport & it's quite bizzare you'd suggest otherwise, but as we've seen with a certain member from the west, in face of overwhelming evidence ppl would rather die on hill than admit they got it wrong..!!

Again, I’ll repeat, nowhere have I stated that rivalries aren’t real. What I’m stating is pretty simple: genuine interest is dependent on commercial considerations and genuine competitiveness. That is just common sense.

Shit I’ve given two examples which evidently support this - for example how many people were interested in the Windies test series recently and compare it to thirty years and forty years ago? How many people were interested in an India test series thirty - forty years ago and compare it to now?

 

[Pippen94]

Again, I’ll repeat, nowhere have I stated that rivalries aren’t real. What I’m stating is pretty simple: genuine interest is dependent on commercial considerations and genuine competitiveness. That is just common sense.

Shit I’ve given two examples which evidently support this - for example how many people were interested in the Windies test series recently and compare it to thirty years and forty years ago? How many people were interested in an India test series thirty - forty years ago and compare it to now?

When was the west indies Australia's main rival over england?! Wait, never.
Like Pakistan vs India will always be big deal regardless of state of teams.
Wise up

 

[Pippen94]

If Easts -Souths were last (hypothetically) do you think more people are to going watch that game than a top of the table or top 4 clash?

The hype around rivalries and that probably only extends to maybe Easts - Souths and maybe Parra - Penrith at this point in time (presuming that only Sydney based rivalries are legitimate of course) are just a by product of where these teams currently sit. If and when either one of these teams, or both, drop down the ladder than the hype and press will naturally fall to other contests.

What warped world do you occupy where you think rivalries dissipate based on ladder location?! Afl expansion plan based heavily on derbies because they know game will sustain interest even in lean times. Buy a clue

 

[Wb1234]

What warped world do you occupy where you think rivalries dissipate based on ladder location?! Afl expansion plan based heavily on derbies because they know game will sustain interest even in lean times. Buy a clue

He didn’t say that

he said if they were running last wouldn’t people prefer too 4 clash

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Yes it did to a degree. There was quite rightly a concern about the Ashes and the length of the series prior to England winning in 2005. Rightly so as well - people get tired of one team absolutely smashing another.

Attendances were always strong in England and Australia thanks to the Barmy Army. Australians did lose a bit of interest by the end of the 90s, but it was still the biggest series on Australian soil.

 

[Pippen94]

He didn’t say that

he said if they were running last wouldn’t people prefer too 4 clash

Wrong.
"The hype around rivalries... are just a by product of where these teams currently sit"

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

If Easts -Souths were last (hypothetically) do you think more people are to going watch that game than a top of the table or top 4 clash?

The hype around rivalries and that probably only extends to maybe Easts - Souths and maybe Parra - Penrith at this point in time (presuming that only Sydney based rivalries are legitimate of course) are just a by product of where these teams currently sit. If and when either one of these teams, or both, drop down the ladder than the hype and press will naturally fall to other contests.

A rivalry will always mean something to diehard fans of the two teams. It only appeals to neutrals when both teams are the standard bearers of the competition.

 

[Wb1234]

If Easts -Souths were last (hypothetically) do you think more people are to going watch that game than a top of the table or top 4 clash?

The hype around rivalries and that probably only extends to maybe Easts - Souths and maybe Parra - Penrith at this point in time (presuming that only Sydney based rivalries are legitimate of course) are just a by product of where these teams currently sit. If and when either one of these teams, or both, drop down the ladder than the hype and press will naturally fall to other contests.

Here pippen what’s your point against this

 

[Pippen94]

Here pippen what’s your point against this

Yep, read it & his other post too. Guy's a moran

 

[Colk]

Yep, read it & his other post too. Guy's a moran

I’m sorry not sure what a moran is. I googled moran and you’re saying that I’m either a famous chef or a supplier of furniture. Interesting.

Once again you absolute moron (here’s a tip: that is how you spell it by the way) what I’m saying is the interest in a match is dictated by where the sides currently sit. That’s just common sense.

Fans of those teams will care about the game but the general public (those who aren’t fans of those teams - remember them) won’t if the match isn’t interesting or doesn’t impact the competition.

Anyway, I’m not going any further with this inane conversation. I’ve made a fairly obvious point I thought but obviously it’s too complex for some.

 

[Pippen94]

I’m sorry not sure what a moran is. I googled moran and you’re saying that I’m either a famous chef or a supplier of furniture. Interesting.

Once again you absolute moron (here’s a tip: that is how you spell it by the way) what I’m saying is the interest in a match is dictated by where the sides currently sit. That’s just common sense.

Fans of those teams will care about the game but the general public (those who aren’t fans of those teams - remember them) won’t if the match isn’t interesting or doesn’t impact the competition.

Anyway, I’m not going any further with this inane conversation. I’ve made a fairly obvious point I thought but obviously it’s too complex for some.

U don't know sports. We thought ur gap in knowledge was just league but turns out u know little about cricket too!!
Qld won eight straight SOO's - should've killed the concept right?! Nope, turns out ppl still tuned to watch like the two teams have a much feted rivalry or something.
Moran was play on a famous meme but thats just another of the many things you don't know..

 

[Colk]

U don't know sports. We thought ur gap in knowledge was just league but turns out u know little about cricket too!!
Qld won eight straight SOO's - should've killed the concept right?! Nope, turns out ppl still tuned to watch like the two teams have a much feted rivalry or something.
Moran was play on a famous meme but thats just another of the many things you don't know..

Mate you’re not even in the same suburb let alone able to come up with some gotcha moment (which you evidently think you have). You’re metaphorically bringing a plastic spoon to a gun fight.

The point I’m trying to make, which is constantly going over your head, hence why I think you can’t actually ‘conceive’ of the argument (which is actually inarguable by the way) is you can’t actually make definitive statements on anything. That’s because everything bar evidently death (even the universe had a beginning and will possibly have an end) is indefinite. That’s just a fact.

(It is not only you by the way, this type of posturing occurs frequently on forums and on social media which is why on occasions it is so poisonous)

Ergo, so you can’t make a statement that because the Ashes have being going on since 1882 (and sure it has been important and it still is important at this time) that it will always be important or have value. Same with the State of Origin (heck when that was conceived in its current format nobody thought that it had value). Same with anything. Look at evolution and history, at various points, animate objects were sacrificed to gods, the biggest sport in time were gladiatorial contests and monuments were built to deities and kings. These things were probably argued at the time to be important and that they were never ever going to be changed or become unimportant. Nevertheless, values and tastes changed to the point that these things no longer had any value or importance.

Even in cricket, I have given you multiple examples of massive change (I also neglected the biggest change of all which is T20 cricket - did you predict the advent of T20 and its domination 30 years ago?)

Also, lastly on this whole rivalry crap and your wanton ability to conflate your own personal subjective viewpoint into something bigger, rivalries are important to those supporters but again is it important to anybody else? That’s the point - it is completely relative. It’s not an quantifiable fact.

For example, a Canberra supporter I couldn’t give a f*** about Easts playing Souths or St George playing Cronulla anymore then any other side which isn’t Canberra playing against each other. That’s because pretty simply I don’t go for any of those other teams. The only intetest that I may have is if it is a good contest.

Now that may not be everybody’s point of view (I would personally find it strange to have a greater interest in a match not involving your team than one that does but anyway) but again your statement doesn’t ring true to me. It probably also doesn’t ring true for a whole lot of other people who have a similar taste to mine. And there would be based on simple probability.

 

[Pippen94]

Mate you’re not even in the same suburb let alone able to come up with some gotcha moment (which you evidently think you have). You’re metaphorically bringing a plastic spoon to a gun fight.

The point I’m trying to make, which is constantly going over your head, hence why I think you can’t actually ‘conceive’ of the argument (which is actually inarguable by the way) is you can’t actually make definitive statements on anything. That’s because everything bar evidently death (even the universe had a beginning and will possibly have an end) is indefinite. That’s just a fact.

(It is not only you by the way, this type of posturing occurs frequently on forums and on social media which is why on occasions it is so poisonous)

Ergo, so you can’t make a statement that because the Ashes have being going on since 1882 (and sure it has been important and it still is important at this time) that it will always be important or have value. Same with the State of Origin (heck when that was conceived in its current format nobody thought that it had value). Same with anything. Look at evolution and history, at various points, animate objects were sacrificed to gods, the biggest sport in time were gladiatorial contests and monuments were built to deities and kings. These things were probably argued at the time to be important and that they were never ever going to be changed or become unimportant. Nevertheless, values and tastes changed to the point that these things no longer had any value or importance.

Even in cricket, I have given you multiple examples of massive change (I also neglected the biggest change of all which is T20 cricket - did you predict the advent of T20 and its domination 30 years ago?)

Also, lastly on this whole rivalry crap and your wanton ability to conflate your own personal subjective viewpoint into something bigger, rivalries are important to those supporters but again is it important to anybody else? That’s the point - it is completely relative. It’s not an quantifiable fact.

For example, a Canberra supporter I couldn’t give a f*** about Easts playing Souths or St George playing Cronulla anymore then any other side which isn’t Canberra playing against each other. That’s because pretty simply I don’t go for any of those other teams. The only intetest that I may have is if it is a good contest.

Now that may not be everybody’s point of view (I would personally find it strange to have a greater interest in a match not involving your team than one that does but anyway) but again your statement doesn’t ring true to me. It probably also doesn’t ring true for a whole lot of other people who have a similar taste to mine. And there would be based on simple probability.

Yeah nah, rivalries are real

 

[Perth Red]

Yeah nah, rivalries are real

Nobody is saying they aren’t. But you have to admit that form is equally, and arguably more, important. Why can one penrith v parra game get 28k and many others draw sub 14k? Form.

 

[flippikat]

It's ridiculous when people on here say an expansion club is "plastic". At one point their NSWRL clubs were recently formed and playing in front of a few dozen to a few hundred people sitting on a hill at a park ground. I think they're just fearful that the new clubs will grow and leave their suburban clubs in the dust.

It's not just the prospect of "leaving suburban teams in the dust", it's also the prospect of successful expansion that fosters plenty of International & AFL-land juniors impacting on State of Origin.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

It's not just the prospect of "leaving suburban teams in the dust", it's also the prospect of successful expansion that fosters plenty of International & AFL-land juniors impacting on State of Origin.

It's funny how the NSWRL uses State of Origin as a cash cow after Bob Fulton described the inaugural game as the "non-event of the century" in its lead up.