18th club, whose next?

[flippikat]

There's a good possibility they'll struggle more than the Titans.

If a rugby league rich region like the Gold Coast struggles then what chance does Perth have of competing with the big clubs?

The Gold Coast has struggled across several sports competitions over the decades, the current woes of the Titans aren't unique in that regard.

 

[mongoose]

The Moneyball article provides this information.

The Storm has been overspending to the tune of between $2 million and $5 million for 15 years. This shortfall has been financed by News Ltd and the amount spent by the club does not seem to be falling since the salary cap scandal in 2010.​

​

The Storm football club spends about $20 million a year, or about $2-$4 million more than most other clubs except for the wealthy Broncos.​

​

Moneyball: how is your club placed?

amp.smh.com.au

Ok fair enough, doesn't mean it was necessary for them to gain support. The Storm's support has really only peaked in the last few years, their crowds and support was still pretty mediocre in the late 2000s and early 2010s, when they were spending that extra money.

There are lots of variables that can affect the amount of support, sponsors etc a team can get. You are forgetting that the Storm are competing with 9 AFL clubs. AFL completely blocks out the sun in Melbourne, there will be a bit more space in Perth for an NRL club.

Neither you or PR know how a Perth team will go but you are just focussing on the negatives.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Ok fair enough, doesn't mean it was necessary for them to gain support. The Storm's support has really only peaked in the last few years, their crowds and support was still pretty mediocre in the late 2000s and early 2010s, when they were spending that extra money.

The fallout from the salary cap rort galvanised support from Victorians who viewed it as a conspiracy. Ironically, the increased media coverage in Melbourne on this scandal helped raise the club's profile. The local media probably thought it would kill off the club for good. I know rugby union journalists were gloating about it being the end of the Storm.

There are lots of variables that can affect the amount of support, sponsors etc a team can get. You are forgetting that the Storm are competing with 9 AFL clubs. AFL completely blocks out the sun in Melbourne, there will be a bit more space in Perth for an NRL club.

Ch9 will provide some coverage for a Perth-based team, but Ch7 won't give it the time of day. Kerry Stokes is a Western Australian and will be looking to protect his business. I wouldn't count on Ch10 and the ABC offering much coverage.

News Ltd don't have a major stake in the local print media.

Neither you or PR know how a Perth team will go but you are just focussing on the negatives.

What I do know is expansion clubs struggle in the NSWRL/ARL/NRL. The only one that blossomed from the start was the Melbourne Storm. The unique scenario that allowed the Storm to blossom will never be repeated.

I am convinced AwFuL will announce a third Perth team to counter the West Coast Pirates. There isn't really anywhere else for them to go. Darwin is out of the question and Canberra is still a long shot. Another AwFuL team in Perth will receive more media coverage than the Pirates. It'll be a repeat of the Dockers and Reds debut in 1995.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

The Gold Coast has struggled across several sports competitions over the decades, the current woes of the Titans aren't unique in that regard.

What is unique is the logistical problems for a Perth-based NRL team.

Rugby league doesn't have a draft and still bases itself round junior catchments in Sydney and relies on the state cups for development. It's why the Melbourne Storm have aligned themselves with the Queensland Cup and NSW Cup from their inception.

The cost of flying lower division teams across the country to compete in the Queensland or NSW Cup will be enormous. NRLWA isn't strong enough to develop junior talent on its own.

 

[flippikat]

What is unique is the logistical problems for a Perth-based NRL team.

Rugby league doesn't have a draft and still bases itself round junior catchments in Sydney and relies on the state cups for development. It's why the Melbourne Storm have aligned themselves with the Queensland Cup and NSW Cup from their inception.

The cost of flying lower division teams across the country to compete in the Queensland or NSW Cup will be enormous. NRLWA isn't strong enough to develop junior talent on its own.

I suspect that the future of Norths & Newtown in NSW Cup could well be those two teams as feeders for Perth & Melbourne.

If Perth links up with the Bears to get their NRL bid across the line (resulting in the North Sydney Bears being Perth's NSW Cup team) , I can see the Sharks fielding their own-branded NSW Cup team - freeing up the Jets to be the Storm's feeder.

Having both teams reserves based in Sydney may save on transport costs, even though it brings up some logistical challenges.

 

[Perth Red]

What is unique is the logistical problems for a Perth-based NRL team.

Rugby league doesn't have a draft and still bases itself round junior catchments in Sydney and relies on the state cups for development. It's why the Melbourne Storm have aligned themselves with the Queensland Cup and NSW Cup from their inception.

The cost of flying lower division teams across the country to compete in the Queensland or NSW Cup will be enormous. NRLWA isn't strong enough to develop junior talent on its own.

yes and no. The cost to fly a lower team from perth to Sydney for a game is around $20k a game. Not cheap but hardly outrageous for a club with a revenue of $30mill plus.

I can see a scenario where:
West Coast Pirates
First Team
NSW cup reserve grade side based in Perth
Jersey Flegg side based in Perth
U16's & U18's focus on a 6 team elite comp in Perth that is well funded by the Pirates to get quality coaching and training facilities etc The best U18's go over to Sydney to play in the NSW partner SG Ball side
+
Sydney team pathway partnership
Partnering with an existing (or interested returning club in Sydney) and running a sydney based:
NSW cup
Jersey Flegg
SG Ball
HM

If needed any first team players to be loaned out to the NSW cup side fly over the Thursday and stay in Sydney to come home Sunday night to train with first team Mon-Weds but majority of players will stay in Perth and play in the Pirates NSW cup side.

Or it may be that the pathway club dont have a NSW cup side and only have the Jnr sides supported by the Pirates with any JF player good enough then coming over to Perth to play NSW cup. That was the original Reds model.

Alongside that some serious support for NRLWA to improve standards across the Jnr levels so we eventually get an increasing number of local players coming through.

No reason that couldnt work.

 

[MugaB]

I suspect that the future of Norths & Newtown in NSW Cup could well be those two teams as feeders for Perth & Melbourne.

If Perth links up with the Bears to get their NRL bid across the line (resulting in the North Sydney Bears being Perth's NSW Cup team) , I can see the Sharks fielding their own-branded NSW Cup team - freeing up the Jets to be the Storm's feeder.

Having both teams reserves based in Sydney may save on transport costs, even though it brings up some logistical challenges.

Why do the Jets need to be aligned with the storm? They already have cronulla, and previously easts as their 1st grade pathway? the ultimate plan for the storm is for their local thunderbolts to aim for reserve grade status, then they can use them aswell as the falcons/eaststigers together as they do nowadays anyways... Jets would be fine even without a 1st grade pathway,
..bears not so much
I still think bears will be no.19, where is upto them really

 

[Perth Red]

Why do the Jets need to be aligned with the storm? They already have cronulla, and previously easts as their 1st grade pathway? the ultimate plan for the storm is for their local thunderbolts to aim for reserve grade status, then they can use them aswell as the falcons/eaststigers together as they do nowadays anyways... Jets would be fine even without a 1st grade pathway,
..bears not so much
I still think bears will be no.19, where is upto them really

NRL continues to push for NRL clubs to be running their own systems, and now offers decent money to do so to sugar the carrot. Unless a Sydney club is going to have two feeder systems its highly likely that in years to come Bears, Newtown and Blacktown will be without an NRL partner unless the weaker development clubs have them as a secondary partner. Mounties could see the writing on the wall and pulled out already.

I can see Bears, Jets, Silktails and Blacktown being partnered with Perth, Melbourne and maybe PNG and Canberra in years to come.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

NRL continues to push for NRL clubs to be running their own systems, and now offers decent money to do so to sugar the carrot. Unless a Sydney club is going to have two feeder systems its highly likely that in years to come Bears, Newtown and Blacktown will be without an NRL partner unless the weaker development clubs have them as a secondary partner. Mounties could see the writing on the wall and pulled out already.

I can see Bears, Jets, Silktails and Blacktown being partnered with Perth, Melbourne and maybe PNG and Canberra in years to come.

There's no way PNG ditches the Queensland Cup for the NSW Cup.

 

[Perth Red]

There's no way PNG ditches the Queensland Cup for the NSW Cup.

No I meant they would continue with the Hunters in Qlnd cup but could have a secondary partnership in NSW cup with one of the non Sydney NRL clubs. Same as Perth.
Reality is its going to take years for PNG to be producing its own first grade talent in large numbers so will still need Australian players to make them competitive.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Having both teams reserves based in Sydney may save on transport costs, even though it brings up some logistical challenges.

If reserve players are living full-time in Sydney then why would they want to sign with Perth?

NRL clubs want their contracted reserve players to train with the main squad.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

No I meant they would continue with the Hunters in Qlnd cup but could have a secondary partnership in NSW cup with one of the non Sydney NRL clubs. Same as Perth.
Reality is its going to take years for PNG to be producing its own first grade talent in large numbers so will still need Australian players to make them competitive.

Why would they link up with a NSW Cup team when they've already got one in the Queensland Cup?

To the best of my knowledge they've never expressed any interest in joining the NSW Cup.

The Silktails wanted to join the Queensland Cup but were told to apply for the NSW Cup.

 

[Perth Red]

Why would they link up with a NSW Cup team when they've already got one in the Queensland Cup?

To the best of my knowledge they've never expressed any interest in joining the NSW Cup.

The Silktails wanted to join the Queensland Cup but were told to apply for the NSW Cup.

sigh. They would still run the Hunters in Qlnd cup but also have a partnership with say the Jets, or Silktails. The Hunters are not going to produce enough NRl players to furnish a PNG NRL side. They will need additional pathways, at least for the first decade or so.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

sigh. They would still run the Hunters in Qlnd cup but also have a partnership with say the Jets, or Silktails. The Hunters are not going to produce enough NRl players to furnish a PNG NRL side. They will need additional pathways, at least for the first decade or so.

To the best of my knowledge, PNGRFL has never expressed an interest to link up with a NSW Cup team.

What makes you think they will in the future?

Do you have any evidence to support your theory?

 

[Perth Red]

To the best of my knowledge, PNGRFL has never expressed an interest to link up with a NSW Cup team.

What makes you think they will in the future?

Do you have any evidence to support your theory?

Until 9 months ago they never had a realistic chance of being in the NRL! Now they have Im sure player development pathways is high on the agenda of what they will be looking at.
But no theres no evidence, Im spitballing about what might be given the direction the NRL is pushing clubs in regards to reserve grade set ups.
Before long Bears, Newtown and Blacktown will be gone unless they can partner with someone who needs additional pathways.

Melbourne, Perth, Canberra, NZ2, PNG would all benefit from a link up with a second pathways program based in Sydney.

In recent years Mounties and Wentworth have both had to drop out of NSW cup due to no NRL club partnership. Only a matter of time until Newtown, Bears and Blacktown go the same way unless new partners needing it are found.

 

[Centy Coast]

Until 9 months ago they never had a realistic chance of being in the NRL! Now they have Im sure player development pathways is high on the agenda of what they will be looking at.
But no theres no evidence, Im spitballing about what might be given the direction the NRL is pushing clubs in regards to reserve grade set ups.
Before long Bears, Newtown and Blacktown will be gone unless they can partner with someone who needs additional pathways.

Melbourne, Perth, Canberra, NZ2, PNG would all benefit from a link up with a second pathways program based in Sydney.

In recent years Mounties and Wentworth have both had to drop out of NSW cup due to no NRL club partnership. Only a matter of time until Newtown, Bears and Blacktown go the same way unless new partners needing it are found.

Actually the Mounties and Wentworthville were cast aside as their former partners decided to go it alone, Wyong pulled the plug on their partnership with the Roosters as they believed it was costing them to much $$$

 

[Vlad59]

Let me get this straight. Perth red thinks we should have a Perth team and Grotd thinks we shouldn’t. Does this sum up this thread accurately?

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Let me get this straight. Perth red thinks we should have a Perth team and Grotd thinks we shouldn’t. Does this sum up this thread accurately?

I'd like Perth to have a team at some stage, but I'm not convinced it's ready for one right now. I also think there are other options that have a better case for inclusion within the next decade. Expansion into Perth will require a significant investment over several decades to truly succeed.

I'm not convinced the ARLC is willing to allocate the resources that will be needed to make it work. The clubs won't vote for Perth to receive the concessions it will need for sustained on field success. A Perth-based team that's not successful on the field is arguably worse than not having a team in Perth. We don't want it to end up like the Western Force or Perth Glory during the A-League era.

I'd rather see the ARLC make a go at strengthening the grassroots in Melbourne before they enter another expansion market.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Until 9 months ago they never had a realistic chance of being in the NRL! Now they have Im sure player development pathways is high on the agenda of what they will be looking at.
But no theres no evidence, Im spitballing about what might be given the direction the NRL is pushing clubs in regards to reserve grade set ups.
Before long Bears, Newtown and Blacktown will be gone unless they can partner with someone who needs additional pathways.

Melbourne, Perth, Canberra, NZ2, PNG would all benefit from a link up with a second pathways program based in Sydney.

In recent years Mounties and Wentworth have both had to drop out of NSW cup due to no NRL club partnership. Only a matter of time until Newtown, Bears and Blacktown go the same way unless new partners needing it are found.

How do you know these NSWRL clubs won't enter the Queensland Cup?

I'd like to see teams like North Sydney, Wentworthville, Mounties, Newtown and Sydney Wests playing in a national second tier competiton alongside teams from PNG, Fiji, New Zealand, New Caledonia, Darwin and Queensland. It would have to be split into divisions to limit travel, but it would be better than having two competitions. I'd also live to see brands like Balmain and Illawarra Steelers reformed for a competiton of this callibre..

 

[Perth Red]

I'd like Perth to have a team at some stage, but I'm not convinced it's ready for one right now. I also think there are other options that have a better case for inclusion within the next decade. Expansion into Perth will require a significant investment over several decades to truly succeed.

I'm not convinced the ARLC is willing to allocate the resources that will be needed to make it work. The clubs won't vote for Perth to receive the concessions it will need for sustained on field success. A Perth-based team that's not successful on the field is arguably worse than not having a team in Perth. We don't want it to end up like the Western Force or Perth Glory during the A-League era.

I'd rather see the ARLC make a go at strengthening the grassroots in Melbourne before they enter another expansion market.

Really? You haven’t told us that before lol