1st Test: South Africa v England at Durban on Dec 26-30, 2015

[ANTiLAG]

Smiths record overseas is better than williamsons ? What are you talking about bro

What good LFM has Smith faced? A half fit Boult?

I really am not prepared to debate this here on December 30.

He has you convinced. That is fine. That is reasonable.

He does not have everyone convinced just yet. Because of his technique.

He has Martin Crowe convinced. You're in fine company.

 

[ANTiLAG]

Smiths record overseas is better than williamsons ? What are you talking about bro
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...2;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

Batsman by average in england against england since 2012. Smiths record is comparably quite good. Especially batsmen with significant innings.

Wow. But BJ Watling, Luke Ronchi and Mark Craig are better?

#getbetterstatsbro

 

[Pete Cash]

What good LFM has Smith faced? A half fit Boult?

I really am not prepared to debate this here on December 30.

He has you convinced. That is fine. That is reasonable.

He does not have everyone convinced just yet. Because of his technique.

He has Martin Crowe convinced. You're in fine company.

Lets debate like adults. Smith averages nearly 70 in the rsa what does williamson average over there ?

 

[Pete Cash]

Wow. But BJ Watling, Luke Ronchi and Mark Craig are better?

#getbetterstatsbro

Watling had a good series, ronchi a good game and half of craigs innings there are not outs. That doesnt change the fact Smith has been relatively successful in england against england. This is fact bro.

 

[hineyrulz]

Get Plodlander on a true pitch and he has nothing, or pulls a heartlidge like he did in Adelaide last tour.

Warner summed this myth up perfectly in SA last tour, he's a poor mans Adam Dale.

 

[Pete Cash]

His "injury" for the adelaide test is a massive knock against him tbh.

 

[ANTiLAG]

Lets debate like adults. Smith averages nearly 70 in the rsa what does williamson average over there ?

PeteCash, you have a reasonable argument.

I tire of the Williamson comparison. Williamson came good in 2013 after South Africa and has not been back yet. Its all anachronistic to go back to NZ scoring 45 over there in 2013.

This is nothing to do with Williamson.

I'd use Warner - because I think there is a good chance Warner will start out scoring Smith in the future. But thats neither here nor there.

You think Smith is already accomplished. That is a reasonable argument. You have many stats to demonstrate this.

I again repeat, what quality LFM has he faced? Rahat Ali? No he's crap. A half fit Boult? No.

What he like on turning pitches? Are you satisfied? Will his 40 in India and UAE remain at that or drop? He certainly scores a lot slower there.

You have a reasonable argument that Smith is the goods. I cannot deny that.

But he needs to tear apart some LFM to answer all doubters. And maybe dominate on turning tracks a little more - 40 average is fine - but you call asian batsman averaging 50+ road bullies - so he should get a little more, no? SR 40 - a bit slow, no?

Martin Crowe, an excellent cricketing mind and a bloody good judge of cricketing talent, thinks Steven Smith is the goods. You have fine opinion in your corner saying you are right. But there is still room for doubt. And there are still doubters. His first innings average of 88 and 28 in the fourth does nothing to silent that doubt.

 

[JJ]

. We are a very young side. .

Young???

Warner, Voges, Nevill, Siddle, Lyon, Khawaja, O'Keefe, S Marsh, NCN - not much youth there!

Even Smith and Burns are 26 - not wee boys

 

[Pete Cash]

Why does he need to score against lfm bowlers. How random.

He needs to score against the bowlers in front of him. All he can do is score runs mate. He has played more than half his tests overseas and he still has a very healthy average.

Jidge point was our star batsmen have mediocre records overseas. Well the only two to have extensive touring records warners needs some work (particularly in asia) but Smiths is good.

 

[Pete Cash]

Young???

Warner, Voges, Nevill, Siddle, Lyon, Khawaja, O'Keefe, S Marsh, NCN - not much youth there!

Even Smith and Burns are 26 - not wee boys

26 is quite young for a batsman ?

 

[ANTiLAG]

Why does he need to score against lfm bowlers. How random.

He needs to score against the bowlers in front of him. All he can do is score runs mate. He has played more than half his tests overseas and he still has a very healthy average.

Jidge point was our star batsmen have mediocre records overseas. Well the only two to have extensive touring records warners needs some work (particularly in asia) but Smiths is good.

LFM? Because he walks in front of his stumps. Its not "random". Have you seen how Starc gets wickets? You think he's the only LFM bowler to attack the stumps against right handers?

88 first innings, 28 fourth innings.

You have a reasonable argument.

But he's not done enough to remove all doubt.

He may well. Many experts think he will continue to succeed.

 

[Pete Cash]

He ends up in the exact same spot williamson is in when he plays the ball ?

 

[ANTiLAG]

He ends up in the exact same spot williamson is in when he plays the ball ?

No. Williamson is in flux. He can move across. Move back. More forward. Combination thereof.

Different pitches, bowlers make him move his feet accordingly.

Sometimes they will be in the same position - sometimes KW finds a different position - some times KW just stops playing a shot altogether.

KW doesn't think he has more natural talent of finding the middle of the bat than most batsman do instinctively or by reaction. He tries to make better decisions than most batsmen.

The KW comparisons should stop here though.

They can bore us all to death in February.

 

[JJ]

26 is quite young for a batsman ?

And the rest of them - you have a bunch of 30 +/- a few years, and a few younger players - hardly a young team overall

 

[Pete Cash]

What rubbish. They both end up playing the ball with their foot on the off stump. It was how starc managed to get williamson out at adelaide. Smith just walks to get there like millions of batsmen have done....like simon katich for example.

 

[ANTiLAG]

What rubbish. They both end up playing the ball with their foot on the off stump. It was how starc managed to get williamson out at adelaide.

You're far too keen to reduce this into a KW v Steven Smith.

You can do that in February.

How KW bats on an Australian tour is irrelevant to how Steven Smith typically bats everywhere.

Have you not thought that is what typically works well on flat Australian wickets without movement?

And the fact it didn't work in Adelaide - is why batsmen would not do it elsewhere with grass. And that Williamson does not always play that way in NZ with green on the wicket?

By the way, would you call Starc a LFM? Perhaps LF? Ever wondered how Steven Smith would go facing him after watching Starc get Williamson "like that" according to you in Adelaide? Its kinda my point. Now KW has shown than Mitch Johnson and Mitch Starc do not trouble him all that much all that often.

If you want to debate like an adult, you will stop bringing KW into the discussion. Otherwise you lack the ability to argue like an adult. Surely you can handle abstract reasoning, or even reificate without Kane Williamson as an example.

 

[Pete Cash]

And the rest of them - you have a bunch of 30 +/- a few years, and a few younger players - hardly a young team overall

Under 30 is young for cricketers imo. Especially in australia.

At full strength the median age is 26

 

[ANTiLAG]

Smith just walks to get there like millions of batsmen have done....

Graeme Smith?

Yeah he erred on off stump a lil. Johnson's bunny. Starc fancied him too. So did Nathan Bracken. Didn't like Pattinson's in swing either. Even got done by Jimmy Franklin's left arm. And Vaas. And lbw to a few left arm spinners to boot. Schmitty looks good against left arm orthodox though. His feet move forward after sideways to them. But he has been tied down in the UAE and India against spin and score slow. And his fourth innings average is 28.

If only Southee had a good inswinger instead of a mere cross seamer as opposed to his outswinger.

 

[simmo1]

Never got the hate around Philander. Has bowled well pretty much everywhere in both forms, and is a handy bat too. Everyone will have the occasional bad test.

 

[ANTiLAG]

Never got the hate around Philander. Has bowled well pretty much everywhere in both forms, and is a handy bat too. Everyone will have the occasional bad test.

He's the worst bowler for any batsman to face with the new ball. Then he's "ordinary" till the 80 over mark where its a case of he's washed, he's rinsed and now he will repeat. That all combined gives him a great average of 22.

Deadly with the Duke and SG. Needs a bit of help from the pitch with the less pronounced seam on the Kookie - but bar Australia, NZ and SA give him that normally.