20 teams and 20 rounds

[Stallion]

Wow! The loyalty of the millions of Bears supporters is so strong that they don't acknowledge that their clubs is still playing every week. That is the kind of fans we need back in the game

BTW, luckily you are incorrect, the hard core bears fans do realise their team still play every week. There are just not that many of them around.

Wrong champ! You lose top flight status you lose fans!

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Wrong champ! You lose top flight status you lose fans!

Wrong champ. The game is bigger now that it has ever been with Norths or Newtown in the comp in terms of both TV ratings and average crowds.

You relegate Norths to NSW Cup who traditionally at their best averaged 10 - 14k. You gain a Melbourne who can grow much larger and in fact are now averating above 15k.

You relegate someone like a Manly (just an example) and you gain someone like a Perth that will average similar crowds early on but grow much bigger over time and open up a new TV slot that is worth $$$ to the TV companies. Plus you add spice and interest to the NSW Cup by re-ignigting the Manly v Norths rivalry that can be played at Brooky and North Sydney Oval because that is the appropriate level for those grounds.

 

[Perth Red]

The nrl (allegedly) can’t afford the $60mill plus a year 4 additional clubs would cost the comp so if you accept the premise we really need those 4 new clubs long term for the future growth of the game then the natural outcome is the dropping down or relocation of some existing clubs.

 

[Stallion]

Wrong champ. The game is bigger now that it has ever been with Norths or Newtown in the comp in terms of both TV ratings and average crowds.

You relegate Norths to NSW Cup who traditionally at their best averaged 10 - 14k. You gain a Melbourne who can grow much larger and in fact are now averating above 15k.

You relegate someone like a Manly (just an example) and you gain someone like a Perth that will average similar crowds early on but grow much bigger over time and open up a new TV slot that is worth $$$ to the TV companies. Plus you add spice and interest to the NSW Cup by re-ignigting the Manly v Norths rivalry that can be played at Brooky and North Sydney Oval because that is the appropriate level for those grounds.

You are kidding! You think Manly and Norths fans will accept being fans in a 2nd rate comp. Especially after being so long and very recognized in the top flight.Stop smoking the weed champ!

 

[titoelcolombiano]

You are kidding! You think Manly and Norths fans will accept being fans in a 2nd rate comp. Especially after being so long and very recognized in the top flight.Stop smoking the weed champ!

You're kidding if you think that Central Coast offers more than Perth in the medium to long term. If Manly (just an example but this can be applied to any under performing Sydney club (not all of them are)) fans don't like their team in NSW cup, then they should start attending games and buying memberships in greater numbers.

 

[Stallion]

You're kidding if you think that Central Coast offers more than Perth in the medium to long term. If Manly (just an example but this can be applied to any under performing Sydney club (not all of them are)) fans don't like their team in NSW cup, then they should start attending games and buying memberships in greater numbers.

Haven't saI'd that you nuffy! At no stage have I thought or stayed that Perth should not be part of the NRL! f**k you are dumb!

 

[Perth Red]

Haven't saI'd that you nuffy! At no stage have I thought or stayed that Perth should not be part of the NRL! f**k you are dumb!

Do you think the nrl can afford $60mill plus a year for four new clubs?

 

[Stallion]

Do you think the nrl can afford $60mill plus a year for four new clubs?

I believe that the NRL can make more money and grow significantly with four more clubs. Provided such an expansion is proactively and diligently supported and strategically planned, such genuine growth is both good for the competition and the code.

 

[Perth Red]

I believe that the NRL can make more money and grow significantly with four more clubs. Provided such an expansion is proactively and diligently supported and strategically planned, such genuine growth is both good for the competition and the code.

I don’t disagree but $60mill plus a year? That’s around a 12% revenue growth from current levels.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Haven't saI'd that you nuffy! At no stage have I thought or stayed that Perth should not be part of the NRL! f**k you are dumb!

Again with the insults. Why do you resort to this? I don't insult you in my posts. Are you able to debate without resorting to that?

When weighing up future expansion options there will be criteria. All of these you would imagine would be high on the list:

• Boosting TV revenue
• quality stadium
• predicted starting membership & crowds
• potential future membership & crowds
• ability to bring new fans to the game
• displayed ability to be financially stable

Here are the potential expansion areas based on these key criteria:

Perth: new TV slot, NIB stadium, reasonable to assume 12k crowds to begin with building over time to betwen 15 - 20k similar to Melbourne, new market able to attract new fans not already attending NRL week-in, week-out, potential backers have already stated their support.

Brisbane 2: weekly game in Brisbane for TV, Suncorp Stadium, reasonable to assume 20 - 25k crowds to begin building to 25 - 30k with time, plus a new event game for the NRL, the Brisbane derby which should sell-out of 52k. Second RL team in a RL city - corporate support won't be a problem as the Broncos demonstrate.

NZ2: weekly game in NZ for TV (having the warriors produces $100m a year, whilst this may not double, it would increase you would imagine), taking RL to a new city in NZ attracting new fans not attening NRL week-in, week-out, plus all of the expat Kiwis getting to more games when they play away in Australia, plus creating a new event game for the NRL the new NZ derby which should go pretty close to selling out each time it is played 25k est. Financial backing is the question mark for this bid.

Central Coast Bears: creates an extra 9 or so games on the Central Coast and probably one heratige game at North Sydney oval (both areas Central Coast and Sydney already host multiple NRL games so this will be additional content), reasonable to assume 12k crowds to begin with but there is no reason to assume much growth; crowds will probably rise to 15 - 16k averages in the years that the bears are successful. not attracting any new fans but they will get existing fans through the gate more regularly in the central coast, they will sell out in Gosford v Newcastle (20k) and against Manly at North Sydney Oval (20k until the novelty wears off but these crowds will always be strong 15k plus), corporate support is a question mark.

Ranking the Expansion Options:
TV Revenue
1 Perth / Brisbane / NZ
2 Bears

Stadium
1 Brisbane
2 Perth / NZ (if Wellington)
3 Bears / NZ (if Christchurch)

Predicted starting membership & crowds
1 Brisbane 20 - 25k
2 Perth / NZ / Bears 12k

Potential future membership & crowds
1 Brisbane 25 - 30k
2 Perth / NZ 15k
3 NZ / Bears 12 - 15k

Ability to bring new fans to the game
1 Perth
2 NZ
3 Brisbane / Bears

Displayed ability to be financially stable
1 Perth
2 Brisbane
3 NZ / Bears

You will notice that the bears are last in every key category and basically offer the game nothing it doesn't already have. If just offers more of what we already have without contributing financially to the league in any way. Expansion needs to pay for itself. Brisbane, Perth and NZ will, Bears won't. There time has passed and their future is in the NSW cup.

 

[Te Kaha]

Again with the insults. Why do you resort to this? I don't insult you in my posts. Are you able to debate without resorting to that?

When weighing up future expansion options there will be criteria. All of these you would imagine would be high on the list:

• Boosting TV revenue
• quality stadium
• predicted starting membership & crowds
• potential future membership & crowds
• ability to bring new fans to the game
• displayed ability to be financially stable

Here are the potential expansion areas based on these key criteria:

Perth: new TV slot, NIB stadium, reasonable to assume 12k crowds to begin with building over time to betwen 15 - 20k similar to Melbourne, new market able to attract new fans not already attending NRL week-in, week-out, potential backers have already stated their support.

Brisbane 2: weekly game in Brisbane for TV, Suncorp Stadium, reasonable to assume 20 - 25k crowds to begin building to 25 - 30k with time, plus a new event game for the NRL, the Brisbane derby which should sell-out of 52k. Second RL team in a RL city - corporate support won't be a problem as the Broncos demonstrate.

NZ2: weekly game in NZ for TV (having the warriors produces $100m a year, whilst this may not double, it would increase you would imagine), taking RL to a new city in NZ attracting new fans not attening NRL week-in, week-out, plus all of the expat Kiwis getting to more games when they play away in Australia, plus creating a new event game for the NRL the new NZ derby which should go pretty close to selling out each time it is played 25k est. Financial backing is the question mark for this bid.

Central Coast Bears: creates an extra 9 or so games on the Central Coast and probably one heratige game at North Sydney oval (both areas Central Coast and Sydney already host multiple NRL games so this will be additional content), reasonable to assume 12k crowds to begin with but there is no reason to assume much growth; crowds will probably rise to 15 - 16k averages in the years that the bears are successful. not attracting any new fans but they will get existing fans through the gate more regularly in the central coast, they will sell out in Gosford v Newcastle (20k) and against Manly at North Sydney Oval (20k until the novelty wears off but these crowds will always be strong 15k plus), corporate support is a question mark.

Ranking the Expansion Options:
TV Revenue
1 Perth / Brisbane / NZ
2 Bears

Stadium
1 Brisbane
2 Perth / NZ (if Wellington)
3 Bears / NZ (if Christchurch)

Predicted starting membership & crowds
1 Brisbane 20 - 25k
2 Perth / NZ / Bears 12k

Potential future membership & crowds
1 Brisbane 25 - 30k
2 Perth / NZ 15k
3 NZ / Bears 12 - 15k

Ability to bring new fans to the game
1 Perth
2 NZ
3 Brisbane / Bears

Displayed ability to be financially stable
1 Perth
2 Brisbane
3 NZ / Bears

You will notice that the bears are last in every key category and basically offer the game nothing it doesn't already have. If just offers more of what we already have without contributing financially to the league in any way. Expansion needs to pay for itself. Brisbane, Perth and NZ will, Bears won't. There time has passed and their future is in the NSW cup.

While for the most part that's true. Two points about NZ.

- I believe its 100Mil for the contract, so that's 20 mil a year not 100 mil a year.
- any new team is unlikely to increase that amount much as Sky already outbids Mediaworks and TVNZ who couldn't afford to pay any more. and currently there is nobody else who can afford that kind of money.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

While for the most part that's true. Two points about NZ.

- I believe its 100Mil for the contract, so that's 20 mil a year not 100 mil a year.
- any new team is unlikely to increase that amount much as Sky already outbids Mediaworks and TVNZ who couldn't afford to pay any more. and currently there is nobody else who can afford that kind of money.

Thanks for the info. I think even with the TV $$$ the same it is beneficial for the game to go to NZ for a second club (for the Kiwis, for the Warriors and for NZRL in general) but it appears to be a clear third in expansion prospects. Would you say that there would be an appetitie and financial support for a second club?

 

[Te Kaha]

Thanks for the info. I think even with the TV $$$ the same it is beneficial for the game to go to NZ for a second club (for the Kiwis, for the Warriors and for NZRL in general) but it appears to be a clear third in expansion prospects. Would you say that there would be an appetitie and financial support for a second club?

Depends who you talk to. There are groups who are willing to try, but they really dont have the financial backing... yet. That might change if a licence is granted, it may not.

The problem is that Wellington really doesn't have the support or player base and Christchurch doesn't have a stadium, and wont for 5-10 years. Given that most players are based in Auckland, those who suggest a second Auckland team may be on to something.

 

[JokerEel]

Sure, I'll take your complete hearsay as fact in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Untested expansion has consigned a number of AFL clubs to the dustbin because - the talent isn't there.

You can say it is til you're blue in the face, but it doesn't make it so.

The talent isn't at these clubs because these clubs have not developed these players...
If you have a well structured football department you will develop the players you need..

 

[Timmah]

The talent isn't at these clubs because these clubs have not developed these players...
If you have a well structured football department you will develop the players you need..

So in summary, the talent isn't there.

 

[JokerEel]

So in summary, the talent isn't there.

You're a numbskull...

 

[Timmah]

You're a numbskull...

Well done on playing the ball, not the man - but what was intended from my post was to say essentially you admit the talent isn't there at this point in time. Whatever the methodology, however it's currently happening, there aren't enough quality players to support any sort of expansion - until there are, through whatever systems need to be brought in to ensure it's there, then we shouldn't be thinking of proceeding - not to 20 teams certainly.

 

[typicalfan]

There is a difference between AFL and NRL though.
Rugby league has another professional league halfway across the world, players from pacific nations that just need the pathway available to make it. 20 teams is too many for now but could be feasible long term.

 

[Perth Red]

Well done on playing the ball, not the man - but what was intended from my post was to say essentially you admit the talent isn't there at this point in time. Whatever the methodology, however it's currently happening, there aren't enough quality players to support any sort of expansion - until there are, through whatever systems need to be brought in to ensure it's there, then we shouldn't be thinking of proceeding - not to 20 teams certainly.

Thats a bit black and white. Could you make up 4 teams from the Australian and NZ second tier, SL, French league, Union and PNG? Maybe, wouldn't be world beaters but may be competitive. Reality is there are more professional and semi professional RL players around the world today than there was back in 1995 when we last brought 4 clubs in.

Its a bit of a horse and cart argument anyway, we wont produce more talent until we need to produce more talent and we wont need more talent until we expand. If it really was major concern for the NRL they should have got on the front foot with it 5 years ago and had Richardsons blueprint in place by now for much stronger national and second tier programs. Our SG ball program still limps along with very little funding and on the goodwill of the bloke who owns Cash Converters. If they had a vision for a Perth team by 2023 then they should have been doing a heck of alot more with our elite pathways. We have still managed to produce a couple of decent NRL players with the meager resources we've had but lets get serious if playing talent depth is really a barrier to expansion.

 

[Timmah]

There is a difference between AFL and NRL though.
Rugby league has another professional league halfway across the world, players from pacific nations that just need the pathway available to make it. 20 teams is too many for now but could be feasible long term.

Never said it couldn't be feasible long term but it's certainly not something we should aspire to any time in the immediate future.