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2013 Draw wishlist

bottle

Coach
Messages
14,126
The scheduling is built in to the draw this year, so the two are linked.
How? I don't understand, I'm a little simple minded that way.Please explain it to me.
If a certain team plays 18 Friday night games during the season they are having 7 days between games for a good chunk of the year, which allows the team to get into a routine.
Again, a function of the TV schedule, not the draw.
Favouring clubs doesn't just relate to on field results, being on FTA more increases sponsorship $ and exposure of the club.
Yes, we all know this this. Again, at the risk of being repetitive, this is a function of the TV schedule, not the draw.
This still does not equate to "a draw wildly skewed to favour certain clubs".

If I'm wrong, please correct me, but isn't the draw conducted first, and then the TV scheduling laid over the top of the existing draw? As I say, if I've got this screwed up happy to be corrected.
 

no name

Referee
Messages
20,688


The process behind the draw

Andrew Bryan NRL.com Mon, Nov 12, 2012 - 1:35 PM




They are the Canadian company behind some of the world's biggest sporting organisations' schedules and they believe the NRL draw is the most complex in all of sport.



Optimal Planning Solutions is the same company behind the NFL draw, and major world soccer leagues in France, Scotland and the USA. They’ve previously worked on Major League Baseball too – a small matter of 30 teams and 162 games per clubhouse.
But the NRL draw, complete with representative fixtures, broadcast demands and club requests is the most complex they have worked on.
Rick Stone and Kirk Pinneo flew from Canada to Sydney two weeks ago and have been at Rugby League Central, with their Game Scheduling Software and NRL staff working together in overdrive to get the NRL draw released late this week and say the complexity of the draw comes from a unique combination of representative fixtures, broadcaster entitlements and the NRL’s objective of meeting as many club priorities as possible.
Finalising the draw has become a much more complicated process this year due to the necessity of locking in all the times and dates for the first 20 rounds of the competition, something that hasn’t been done before at the NRL.
With 192 individual events to schedule across venues that involve multiple hirers, while trying to match requests of the 16 clubs, it is an enormous logistical exercise.
“The biggest change is the scheduling, it is a completely different approach to the draw this year,” Stone explains to NRL.com.
"No other sport puts such a priority on club requests.
“Instead of organising the season draw by round, the NRL has had to organise 20 rounds into complete timeslots, which is a much more involved process consisting of a wide range of variables.
“It is a number of steps further than just picking each round. The broadcasters are asking for certain matches and time slots and the process of moving just one game can totally change the whole draw.
“It
can be like a water balloon in that if you try to block a leak on one side, it puts more pressure on the other side, so changing one element of the draw can completely change the final make-up.”
The software which has been used by the NRL for six years revolves around a unique penalty system that lets the individual sport customise and define key scheduling constraints and quantify key objectives of the final fixtures list.
The algorithm of the Game Scheduling Software calculates the best possible draw derived from a set list of parameters dictated by the sport, in this case, the NRL.
These parameters can range from travel, amount of day and night fixtures, availability of venues, the turnaround between games, consecutive games away from home and the gap between return fixtures to name a few.
There are literally trillions and trillions of different possibilities and over 50 million possible penalty points that can be accrued. The final draw will be whittled down to a mere 7,000.
It is not an exact science, but the system allows the best possible outcome based upon the criteria given to it by the NRL, clubs and broadcasters.
“The penalty element we have worked into our system is one of the most important components of our draw,” Stone said.
“The higher the penalty count the less desirable it is to see it in the final draw. When we get a draw, the system gives us a report and shows how many penalty points have been accrued. Obviously the less points the better the draw.
“We are negotiating what we change to lower that score – which will be a better result for all the clubs.
“The weight of the penalties is dictated by the clubs, for example playing multiple games on the road, certain teams draw better on certain days, the amount of rest between games etcetera.
“This schedule we are working towards has 7,800 penalty points out of a possible 50 million that could happen. So we are constantly looking to get that down further, but it is looking pretty good.”
While the NRL has tried to cater for all markets, the organising body is quick to point out that not everyone is going to be happy. The biggest challenge is to manage expectation.
In fact, the most desirable outcome according to the Canadian-based company is when everyone complains.
“If everyone is equally upset, you know you have a good draw,” Stone deadpans.
“We have found even from the same club you can get wide-ranging opinions on what they want. Management wants one thing, the coaching staff another, so you cannot please everybody even in the same club, let alone across 16 clubs all with their own requirements and expectations.
“The biggest problem with designing a draw is two or three clubs want something that is mutually exclusive, clubs who pick the exact opposite thing to each other.
“Everyone wants to start at home and everyone wants to finish at home. Straight away you have a conflict of interest.”
The NRL draw is expected to be released later this week and will be available in its entirety first on NRL.com.
 

Big Sam

First Grade
Messages
8,976
I don't question how long it takes to develop the draw, I question why it seems the NRL only started 3 weeks ago.

Clubs' preferences for opponents don't really change from year to year. Sydney clubs want to play Sydney clubs twice and the Storm/QLD likewise want to play each other twice. Knowing that, they should've and could've started on the draw in September.
 

Clarke

Juniors
Messages
471
Clubs' preferences for opponents don't really change from year to year.

Do you have any proof of that or just assuming?

Sydney clubs want to play Sydney clubs twice and the Storm/QLD likewise want to play each other twice. Knowing that, they should've and could've started on the draw in September.

Read somewhere that preferences for some clubs (regarding opposition clubs) are the complete opposite of the other clubs preference at times.
 

Timmah

LeagueUnlimited News Editor
Staff member
Messages
101,136
I am sick of hearing this excuse TBH. You would think the NRL is the only sporting competition in history to have to deliver a set draw the way they are acting. Competitions like the NFL, MLB, NBA etc. can do it with more teams and thousands of games so I don?t see what the struggle is.

Excuse? It's a fact ffs. They've had 4 x the amount of work to do in what equates to about 8 months less time than usual (Round 20 normally isn't scheduled til June).

Last year we got a draw on November 9 with no venues or scheduling whatsover. If we get all up to R20 before December 5 (which seems almost certain), then they're actually doing a lot better.

I don't question how long it takes to develop the draw, I question why it seems the NRL only started 3 weeks ago.

Clubs' preferences for opponents don't really change from year to year. Sydney clubs want to play Sydney clubs twice and the Storm/QLD likewise want to play each other twice. Knowing that, they should've and could've started on the draw in September.

How would you have the foggiest clue when they started this process?

Speculating here, but I would think there'd be several parts to it - first establishing a draft draw, then factoring in TV times, then sending it to clubs, then sending it to broadcasters... each time it coming back requiring changes or modifications.

Then you've got booking of venues for all those matches.

I know for a fact the AFL started scheduling 2013 back in July and didn't release til October 31.
 

Big Sam

First Grade
Messages
8,976
Do you have any proof of that or just assuming?
An educated guess. I don't see Sydney clubs requesting to play non-NSW teams with no away supporters like Gold Coast or Melbourne at home (except for the Dogs obviously with the GF rematch).

I know for a fact the AFL started scheduling 2013 back in July and didn't release til October 31.
AFL's schedule is harder to develop when you factor in 2 WA teams. And we all knew from the broadcast announcement that the first 20 rounds would have to be in full. If the NRL knew it would take months, why not start in August/September?
 

Yosemite Sam

Juniors
Messages
825
The NRL draw would be much harder to organize than the AFL's.

Stadium availability is a huge factor, since much of our season we are sharing stadiums with the A-League and Super 15.
 

Big Sam

First Grade
Messages
8,976
Not really. The A-League overlaps for about 2 weeks in March and only 4 clubs (Storm, Raiders, Broncos, Easts) are affected by S15 clashes.

And the RU draw was done in September from memory. You can't seriously tell me the NRL still hasn't resolved any clashes in 6 weeks?
 

Timmah

LeagueUnlimited News Editor
Staff member
Messages
101,136
AFL's schedule is harder to develop when you factor in 2 WA teams. And we all knew from the broadcast announcement that the first 20 rounds would have to be in full. If the NRL knew it would take months, why not start in August/September?
1. AFL's schedule is made EASIER because of the WA teams. The pair dominate the Sunday twilight slot due to the time difference.
2. How would you have the foggiest as to when they started compiling the draw? Just because you say "3 weeks ago", doesn't make it fact.

Not really. The A-League overlaps for about 2 weeks in March and only 4 clubs (Storm, Raiders, Broncos, Easts) are affected by S15 clashes.

And the RU draw was done in September from memory. You can't seriously tell me the NRL still hasn't resolved any clashes in 6 weeks?

A-League is now all of March and into April for the finals & GF (which takes place just before ANZAC Day now). Super 15 has also extended deeper into the NRL season too.

Tigers are also an affected club btw, they play 4 matches at Allianz.


Good to see you ignored the rest of my post detailing some of the reasons why the draw isn't a simple, quick process like you seem to be insisting on.
 

Big Sam

First Grade
Messages
8,976
Good to see you ignored the rest of my post detailing some of the reasons why the draw isn't a simple, quick process like you seem to be insisting on.

But it is a simple, quick process. I think the NRL is dragging the chain either because it started on it too late or it was just disorganised. Both are linked to the fact that they don't have a CEO.

I just don't understand how MLB for example can have its 2013 draw out 3 weeks after this year's season had finished, with its 2430 regular season games across 4 timezones, and we can't even get 192 games sorted across just 2 timezones (for at least 80% of the season anyway).

Members are having to renew without knowing when and against whom their home games are. Even us Souths members don't actually know specifically how many games are included in the package because we're still waiting on the draw. It's ridiculous.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
73,360
It is stupid we are expecting fans to buy memberships without knowing how many games you are getting and how many you will be able to attend.
 

innsaneink

Referee
Messages
29,385
There are some whinge arses in here aye. Oh boo hoo the draw is going to be nine days later wahhhhh! "But I want it now and they said we will have it now" wahhh. The average fan isn't worried about when the draw is released, i agree with cleary they probably dont know and I highly doubt that a one week delay will effect those making plans for away trips next season.
Its not just the draw...its a general observation.
These businesses are supposed to be professional...do people cop this sort of amateur shit from Apple, Sony, Toyota etc etc....if they keep screwing up like this people WILL get sick of it, they wont accept "Oh sorry we were a week out, well get back to you next week".....but yeh miss the point totally f**kwit

Look up 'professional'...its clear youve no idea what it means
 

innsaneink

Referee
Messages
29,385
Refer to Timmah's post above for the reasons. The only people that care if it comes out this week or the next are the diehards who are desperate for Rugby League news in the off-season and spend time on these sites to find it. I doubt people will walk away from the game over the draw and like it was noted earlier I also doubt this will get in the way of people making plans to travel to away games
Again, its not just this one instance....see above.
This is NOT professionalism
 

innsaneink

Referee
Messages
29,385
If it's so simple and quick. Make up a mock draw by the time the NRL draw is released and we'll compare the two and see which one is fairer.
Its simple and quick if you add an extra 4 weeks into the comp, eliminating the trial period....thus having everyone play everyone twice, home and away.....but no thats waaaaay too hard, the elite players will be playing too much here and wont have time to earn mega bucks in japan & france
 

innsaneink

Referee
Messages
29,385
But it is a simple, quick process. I think the NRL is dragging the chain either because it started on it too late or it was just disorganised. Both are linked to the fact that they don't have a CEO.

I just don't understand how MLB for example can have its 2013 draw out 3 weeks after this year's season had finished, with its 2430 regular season games across 4 timezones, and we can't even get 192 games sorted across just 2 timezones (for at least 80% of the season anyway).

Members are having to renew without knowing when and against whom their home games are. Even us Souths members don't actually know specifically how many games are included in the package because we're still waiting on the draw. It's ridiculous.


Do they all play all their opponents an equal amount of times?
 

BunniesMan

Immortal
Messages
33,788
I didn't know they could reject it. But if they could shouldn't the NRL have been working a little closer with 9 to to avoid this problem?
 
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