2015 - a new era

[roughyedspud]

Yes, the grant which you plucked out of thin air. All our problems would be solved if money grew on trees. That much has always been clear but it doesn't help us much with our current problems.

Currently Super League clubs get a grant of 1.2 million pounds in redistributed TV money. That number will increase with the new format to 1.7 million. I hope that is understood - the grant increases at the same time as the new format. If the format was not changed then the grant probably wouldn't increase either.

Now you want each Super League club given a 2 million pound grant. So each club gets an extra 800,000 in redistributed TV money. Where does this all come from? If you play less rounds then you get less TV money. Under your proposal the grant money would have to decrease, rather than increase.

If you include the increased grant money to Championship teams your proposal would cost the RFL over 10 million pounds more than their own proposal. Where is all of that money going to come from? What's more you want them to pay out all of that extra money while playing a significantly condensed season? It's just not reality.

It's so easy to sit at your computer and say something is "simple." However, you aren't accountable to anyone and you don't have an income statement in front of you. The RFL's task is to grow a game which has struggled for its existence for mainstream media coverage. I don't think the RFL's proposal is perfect; I think it has many flaws I have already listed. One of them is too many games and the other is the difficulty of getting promoted. However, there is no perfect solution. What they have to do is do a cost/benefit analysis and determine the best course of action and they need to base this upon actual data.

you see what youve done there is what everyone in RL seems to do and that is complicate the matter with if,buts & maybes...



what do we know?

the tv deals is worth £200m over 5 years......thats £40m a years to spread between the RFL & 38 CLUBS

NOW....WE CAN AFFORD TO DO THIS

12 ESL clubs get £1.7m per season
12 champ clubs get £800k per season
14 league 1 clubs get £250k per season

ALL THAT ADDS UPTO £33.5m........which leaves the RFL with £6.5m per season to play with...




but whats happened instead is they've give the ESL a £500k increase to keep the chairmen happy,give 2 championship clubs a increase but not enough to make them competitive with ESL,the rest of the championship clubs get a small increase on what they get now but not enough to make them competitive with the top 2 in their own league and league 1 clubs have had a actual DECREASE IN FUNDING!

now you can spin it all you want but the way the money is going to be dished out is all wrong..

 

[Dogs Of War]

you see what youve done there is what everyone in RL seems to do and that is complicate the matter with if,buts & maybes...



what do we know?

the tv deals is worth £200m over 5 years......thats £40m a years to spread between the RFL & 38 CLUBS

NOW....WE CAN AFFORD TO DO THIS

12 ESL clubs get £1.7m per season
12 champ clubs get £800k per season
14 league 1 clubs get £250k per season

ALL THAT ADDS UPTO £33.5m........which leaves the RFL with £6.5m per season to play with...




but whats happened instead is they've give the ESL a £500k increase to keep the chairmen happy,give 2 championship clubs a increase but not enough to make them competitive with ESL,the rest of the championship clubs get a small increase on what they get now but not enough to make them competitive with the top 2 in their own league and league 1 clubs have had a actual DECREASE IN FUNDING!

now you can spin it all you want but the way the money is going to be dished out is all wrong..

But if you don't fund the top part of the game properly, then you lose the talent to Union and NRL clubs because the money is too good to ignore. Yes at the levels they are at their will still be an interest in trying, but just not as much of one. The top levels of the game are the ones that make the TV deal possible, so really the bottom levels are just getting what they deserve. If you don't get the talent in the right part of the game, then the money won't be their next deal.

 

[roughyedspud]

ive not got a problem ESL getting the increase.....ive got a problem with most of the money going to the top 12-14 clubs..........when ive quite clearly demonstrated theres enough money to give the top 24 clubs a decent wedge and the remaining 14 clubs enough money to lay foundations


heres the actual breakdown of the £200m

The five-year deal breaks down as follows:

The amount being paid for club and international matches will be £182,200,000 in total.

Of that total, £146,760,000, or 80 per cent, will go to Super League clubs.

£14,576,000 or 8 per cent, will go to the twelve Championship clubs in the second tier.

£1,822,000, or one per cent, will go to the Championship One clubs.

£20,042,000, or 11 per cent, will be paid for Challenge Cup and internationals coverage.

For that, Sky Sports will broadcast 71 Super League games per season, 17 Championship games and one Championship one game, while they will also broadcast eleven Challenge Cup games.

BSkyB will also pay another £17,800,000 during the course of the contract, and that money will be paid for coaching and to the clubs’ charitable foundations, with the first payment of £100,000 per club being made in July.

Under the terms of the new contract the annual payment to Super League clubs will rise to £1,825,000 per club, which will just about cover the salary cap.

For the Championship clubs, from 2015 the two clubs relegated from Super League this year will receive £788,000 and £787,000 respectively.

The clubs that finish first and second in the Championship this year will receive £550,000 and £500,000 respectively in 2015.

Clubs 3 to 12 will then be on a sliding scale of income from £200,000 to £150,000. It will be a tough job for any of those clubs to get into the top four in 2015.

The Championship One clubs will each receive £75,000.

 

[Wilson1]

you see what youve done there is what everyone in RL seems to do and that is complicate the matter with if,buts & maybes...



what do we know?

the tv deals is worth £200m over 5 years......thats £40m a years to spread between the RFL & 38 CLUBS

NOW....WE CAN AFFORD TO DO THIS

12 ESL clubs get £1.7m per season
12 champ clubs get £800k per season
14 league 1 clubs get £250k per season

ALL THAT ADDS UPTO £33.5m........which leaves the RFL with £6.5m per season to play with...




but whats happened instead is they've give the ESL a £500k increase to keep the chairmen happy,give 2 championship clubs a increase but not enough to make them competitive with ESL,the rest of the championship clubs get a small increase on what they get now but not enough to make them competitive with the top 2 in their own league and league 1 clubs have had a actual DECREASE IN FUNDING!

now you can spin it all you want but the way the money is going to be dished out is all wrong..

The ifs, buts and maybes you object to are what I call financial literacy and basic economics.

You are asking for an organisation to spend over 10 million extra pounds each season without any compensatory increase in revenue or drop in expenditure somewhere else. What's more you want to decrease that same organisation's revenue by having their premier competition feature less games.

I notice originally you said you would give Super League clubs 2 million pounds each and Championship clubs 1 million pounds each and now you have scaled down to 1.7 million and 0.8million respectively. Your old figures for the central funding were almost identical to the 40 million in revenue.

Either way there isn't enough money there. If there was enough money there then the RFL would be making large profits of several million punds but they aren't. The RFL obviously currently believe they need more than 6.5 million pounds to play with. Your system would mean the RFL would have less money to play with.

Under the RFL's system they would spend: 21.9million on the ESL, 4.026 million on the Championship and 1.05 million on the Championship 1 for a total of 27 million. Therefore the RFL have given themselves about 13 million pounds to spend (plus they do get some revenue from other sources). However, for your central funding to work the RFL would have to cut 6.5 million pounds of expenditure. Much of that expenditure would be in and around supporting the Super League - paying match officials and the like. The rest presumably goes to the grass roots. Are the grass roots so strong that the RFL can cut that sort of funding towards them? The opportunity cost of spending more in central funding is less that can be spent on growing the game or at the grass roots.

You can quibble all you want about how the money is allocated but you have to realise that currently the pie is small. All of us want to make it bigger but the RFL is still forced, just like everyone else, to live within their means.

 

[roughyedspud]

So splitting it £1.7m,£800k,£250k with £6.5m left for the RFL is extravagant spending?? and not living within their means?...


lets also not forget the RFL basically had to bribe the SL clubs with a £300,000 "sweetener" to get them to vote for this

Either way there isn't enough money there. If there was enough money there then the RFL would be making large profits of several million punds but they aren't. The RFL obviously currently believe they need more than 6.5 million pounds to play with. Your system would mean the RFL would have less money to play with.

the RFL isn't in the buisness of making profits..not huge ones anyway,last week they announce a annual profit of £120k on a turnover of £30+m....they pumped £10-11m back into the sport

 

[Wilson1]

So splitting it £1.7m,£800k,£250k with £6.5m left for the RFL is extravagant spending?? and not living within their means?...


lets also not forget the RFL basically had to bribe the SL clubs with a £300,000 "sweetener" to get them to vote for this



the RFL isn't in the buisness of making profits..not huge ones anyway,last week they announce a annual profit of £120k on a turnover of £30+m....they pumped £10-11m back into the sport

I'm not saying they should make extravagant profits - I'm saying they should invest in the grass roots. You seem to think that giving clubs a higher grant in central funding is more important than ensuring juniors play the game. This is evident by you vowing to cut about 6 million pounds from the RFL's budget much of which goes to keep the game running. That's fine - it's just a different opinion on how to grow the sport. As long as you realise that your plan will lead to significantly reduced expenditure on the grass roots to the tune of millions of pounds.

Don't you think though that maybe if the RFL thinks they need the money maybe they do? It's difficult to know what that money is spent on. One thing you seem to want is more internationals. Well, internationals cost money. You have to pay a coach, players, management staff and hire out a ground. If England played more internationals against teams like France and Wales then the RFL would see its costs increase. If the RFL suddenly had half of its revenue cut then maybe they would have to scale back the English rugby league program?

What programs would you like to see the RFL cut as a result of their 6 million pounds fall in revenue?

You have made an arbitrary comment that 6.5 million pounds is enough but no one really knows whether or not it would be.

There are no free lunches and nothing is simple is my point. You spend more somewhere then you spend less somewhere else.

 

[RedVee]

I don't know whether it is genius or madness!

I assume the 8 from the top level is equivalent too our semis, the bottom 8 get to have a few more games by playing teams from the next level down in a contrived 'comp' to win back their spot for the next years competition.

Re the Magic Weekend and posters suggesting it be a 9s comp. Would you include any teams from the lower levels?

 

[Wilson1]

I don't know whether it is genius or madness!

I assume the 8 from the top level is equivalent too our semis, the bottom 8 get to have a few more games by playing teams from the next level down in a contrived 'comp' to win back their spot for the next years competition.

Re the Magic Weekend and posters suggesting it be a 9s comp. Would you include any teams from the lower levels?

My main problems with the Magic Weekend right now are that it distorts the competition by making some teams play 3 times. It also doesn't do what it was meant to in develop the game.

With only 12 Super League teams there would definitely be a chance to add in a few more. You could have a French elite representative team and a couple from the Championship. Maybe you could host the 9's preseason and invite an NRL team to come over?

 

[langpark]

...

 

[roughyedspud]

 

[miguel de cervantes]

Looks suspiciously like my figure on the previous page, but that is perhaps normal. About time anyway.

 

[goodplayer]

very nice european super league 2015 promotion. whats your thought of halifax blue sox

 

[taste2taste]

So, whats the ESL salary cap, 1.6m ?

Is Rugby Unions 5.5m ?

Im asking because those numbers seem too far apart.

 

[roughyedspud]

£1.65million

 

[CC_Roosters]

£1.65million

Needs to be increased incrimentally over the next few years. That and growing other revenue streams are key to a successful super league.

Whats a realistic goal by say 2018? £2.5m which is AU$4.6m?

 

[roughyedspud]

many have been asking for increases that are inline with inflation,which is about 1.2-1.3% at the moment

which only amounts to £20k increase per year....hardly seems worth it but it'll eventually add up i guess

 

[CC_Roosters]

many have been asking for increases that are inline with inflation,which is about 1.2-1.3% at the moment

which only amounts to £20k increase per year....hardly seems worth it but it'll eventually add up i guess

Who is holding it back? Is it certain club owners or is it HQ holding back for fear of clubs mismanaging and living beyond their means?

 

[taste2taste]

This may be a topic for a diffent thread... But

Why is there such a large gap between union and leagues caps ?

Is union really that much more popular?

Does ESL have trouble keeping its best talent from going over to union ?

I remember when NRL players would get paid more going to England , how is that possible on a 1.65 m cap.

Not trolling, genuine questions.

 

[roughyedspud]

Who is holding it back? Is it certain club owners or is it HQ holding back for fear of clubs mismanaging and living beyond their means?

i dunno...i think its the RFL that won't budge?


and then when koukash proposes a "marquee player rule" where a one player does'nt count towards the cap the other clubs don't back him..

 

[roughyedspud]

This may be a topic for a diffent thread... But

Why is there such a large gap between union and leagues caps ?

Is union really that much more popular?

Does ESL have trouble keeping its best talent from going over to union ?

I remember when NRL players would get paid more going to England , how is that possible on a 1.65 m cap.

Not trolling, genuine questions.

thats because everyone else got peanuts lol