2019 Discussion

[franklin2323]

Even though he doesn't have much experience on the wing, I can't see Cleary selecting MWZ over Edwards for the wing spot, if he decides on DWZ at fullback.

Edwards first grade debut was on the wing and he went fine.

Yeah he will be in the team. I think he is the best fullback but on the wing still works

 

[franklin2323]

RCG when fit, is our best front rower. So if his head space is now fine after his 2 broken jaws, he needs to be a starter.

We need to get off to better starts in games this season, and that comes from dominating opposition forwards in the middle. So we need our best forwards starting, or the games could be essentially over by the time he comes on the field after 20 minutes.

Re Nathan spending some time at hooker, I can't see under any circumstances Ivan risking his son by getting him to defend in the middle as a hooker.

You don't think RCG was better off the bench? For me our bad starts are why JFH and RCG should be on the bench. Look at their tackle effeciency. We need their aggression to stay but they are too loose to start.

 

[franklin2323]

Under new rules in 2019, development players can be selected in the NRL following the June 30 player movement deadline.

So there are no restrictions on them being able to play first grade after June 30. Which is much better than the development player rules last year, where they could only play in extraordinary circumstances such as an injury crisis to a specific position within the top 30.

Yeah you only name 29 Players to start the year. Top 30 is finalised June 30

 

[martielang]

Tamou has got to start & RCG from the bench.

No brainer to me.

 

[Luke Bowden]

Even though he doesn't have much experience on the wing, I can't see Cleary selecting MWZ over Edwards for the wing spot, if he decides on DWZ at fullback.

Edwards first grade debut was on the wing and he went fine.

MWZ is bigger, stronger, faster and a better finisher. He’s a better winger.

If Edwards was to be picked on the wing (which he won’t, he’ll be picked at FB) then we are putting our best 13 on the field.

 

[mxlegend99]

It's always going to be Edwards.

But - he is coming back form a long term injury so DWZ is a very handy option if Edwards is struggling.

All this talk about DWZ being the NZ fullback is also not really right. He was only there because RTS was missing. Once RTS is back it's back to the NZ wing for DWZ.

Yes it is. He played fullback for them 5 times in 2018 scoring 4 tries. He has worn the NZ#1 more times than RTS.

RTS at fullback. 3 tries in 4 games.
RTS on wing. 8 tries in 6 games.

DWZ at fullback. 4 tries in 6 games.
DWZ on wing. 1 try in 5 games.

DWZ has actually sucked on the wing for Kiwis in most his games. His only good rep form has been at fullback. Although that may have been different in 2018 if he played wing.

 

[Crashtest]

MWZ is bigger, stronger, faster and a better finisher. He’s a better winger.

If Edwards was to be picked on the wing (which he won’t, he’ll be picked at FB) then we are putting our best 13 on the field.

I agree, in that I think Edwards will be picked at fullback.

But if he isn't, I just think he is a better player than MWZ and needs to on the wing. MWZ is definitely bigger, but Edwards returns the ball back harder, is better at busting tackles, and is much safer under the high ball.

 

[Crashtest]

You don't think RCG was better off the bench? For me our bad starts are why JFH and RCG should be on the bench. Look at their tackle effeciency. We need their aggression to stay but they are too loose to start.

I agree he can play well off the bench.

But I just think we need our best forwards starting the match, dominating the middle and winning field position from the start of games. If we are 2 or 3 tries down against the better teams by the time he comes on, the game is as good as over.

 

[MrBlack]

Yes it is. He played fullback for them 5 times in 2018 scoring 4 tries. He has worn the NZ#1 more times than RTS.

RTS at fullback. 3 tries in 4 games.
RTS on wing. 8 tries in 6 games.

DWZ at fullback. 4 tries in 6 games.
DWZ on wing. 1 try in 5 games.

DWZ has actually sucked on the wing for Kiwis in most his games. His only good rep form has been at fullback. Although that may have been different in 2018 if he played wing.

Still - RTS will be the fullback every time he is available. Current Dally M player of the year..

Not saying that I agree, just the way it is.

Don't get me wrong - I am a huge DWZ fan, the guy has loads of talent, a level head, and a genuine nice guy off the field (I have met him a few times). I just think he is behind Edwards and RTS at club and rep level.

 

[mxlegend99]

Still - RTS will be the fullback every time he is available. Current Dally M player of the year..

Not saying that I agree, just the way it is.

Don't get me wrong - I am a huge DWZ fan, the guy has loads of talent, a level head, and a genuine nice guy off the field (I have met him a few times). I just think he is behind Edwards and RTS at club and rep level.

Actually my stats were only for the World Cup matches played. RTS was also fullback for a Tri-nations and an ANZAC test.

Looking at his stats he seems to miss every even year. Aside from a one off game in 2014, all his games for NZ have come in 2013, 2015 and 2017. So hes due to play more this year

 

[franklin2323]

I agree he can play well off the bench.

But I just think we need our best forwards starting the match, dominating the middle and winning field position from the start of games. If we are 2 or 3 tries down against the better teams by the time he comes on, the game is as good as over.

We were getting 2-3 tries down with him starting though. Not just him but the middles. Merrin has gone. Stats wise he was better then RCG or JFH so I don't see how we fix it by keep doing the same thing.

So for me. Get defensive Props/lock to start then let RCG/JFH to come on and go the rest of the game. Try that at the start of the year and go from there

 

[Crashtest]

We were getting 2-3 tries down with him starting though. Not just him but the middles. Merrin has gone. Stats wise he was better then RCG or JFH so I don't see how we fix it by keep doing the same thing.

So for me. Get defensive Props/lock to start then let RCG/JFH to come on and go the rest of the game. Try that at the start of the year and go from there

I'm hoping Cleary can improve the Panthers defence and discipline as a whole, something Hook wasn't able to achieve.

But if RCG's form and confidence are down at the start of the season, then I'm all for him being moved to the bench.

He should be motivated to get his state of origin spot back though, so hopefully means he can start the season off aggressive and playing at his best. We certainly need him to, especially with Merrin gone and Sam out injured.

 

[franklin2323]

I'm hoping Cleary can improve the Panthers defence and discipline as a whole, something Hook wasn't able to achieve.

But if RCG's form and confidence are down at the start of the season, then I'm all for him being moved to the bench.

He should be motivated to get his state of origin spot back though, so hopefully means he can start the season off aggressive and playing at his best. We certainly need him to, especially with Merrin gone and Sam out injured.

The side though was set to play hooks style. Smaller forwards like Taylor, Docker, Brown etc would never get a run under hook. So while Ivan should fix the defence whether it is with the same guys hook used is the question.

Kikau went from a bench prop. With only 3 years of RL experience as a centre or prop.
JFH form bench back row prior year was tanished by injury. To playing close to 80 mins in the middle.
RCG got Dally M bench player of the year. To starting with a target on his back as a test player.

So they are just starting in those roles. Maybe they weren't used the best last year or who knows maybe they will be much better for that year

 

[Matthew Ellis]

MWZ is bigger, stronger, faster and a better finisher. He’s a better winger.

If Edwards was to be picked on the wing (which he won’t, he’ll be picked at FB) then we are putting our best 13 on the field.

Edwards does hard yards, running straight at the line to make as much metres as possible and is willing to do them week in week out. MWZ crabs across field on his one out hit ups. Edwards is also a better dender. Hard to judge MWZ's speed because I haven't seen him in open space recently but judging by the amount of wingers who palmed him off he isn't stronger than Edwards who is more the guy doing the palming off defenders.

 

[mxlegend99]

Edwards does hard yards, running straight at the line to make as much metres as possible and is willing to do them week in week out. MWZ crabs across field on his one out hit ups. Edwards is also a better dender. Hard to judge MWZ's speed because I haven't seen him in open space recently but judging by the amount of wingers who palmed him off he isn't stronger than Edwards who is more the guy doing the palming off defenders.

How can we judge Edwards wing ability? He played 2 games as a winger ffs. And was fantastic in both.

His debut vs Sharks. We were never in that game (thanks Will Smith). But Dylan was good on debut showing an attitude defensively I doubt MWZ could match.

His second game we destroyed Tigers. He combined well with Peachey.. but pretty much any winger would thrive in that game with how we tore them up that second half.

I think Edwards would easily cover MWZ as a winger. The only issue he would have is wingers have a harder time getting involved. If you're a gun winger it's easy to minimize your influence on a game. Kick the other way. We're just in a unique position to have 3x great kick returners.

I would want Dallin returning the fewest kicks as the opposition. He runs it back faster and harder. But Mansour and Edwards arent exactly soft runners.

Put MWZ in and hes easily the guy you want returning kicks. (As opposition). Edwards, DWZ and Mansour though... all of them are beasts.

 

[Matthew Ellis]

How can we judge Edwards wing ability? He played 2 games as a winger ffs. And was fantastic in both.

His debut vs Sharks. We were never in that game (thanks Will Smith). But Dylan was good on debut showing an attitude defensively I doubt MWZ could match.

His second game we destroyed Tigers. He combined well with Peachey.. but pretty much any winger would thrive in that game with how we tore them up that second half.

I think Edwards would easily cover MWZ as a winger. The only issue he would have is wingers have a harder time getting involved. If you're a gun winger it's easy to minimize your influence on a game. Kick the other way. We're just in a unique position to have 3x great kick returners.

I would want Dallin returning the fewest kicks as the opposition. He runs it back faster and harder. But Mansour and Edwards arent exactly soft runners.

Put MWZ in and hes easily the guy you want returning kicks. (As opposition). Edwards, DWZ and Mansour though... all of them are beasts.

Sorry for the confusion I meant I'm almost completely sure Edwards is a better winger than MWZ too. That's what I meant.

 

[mxlegend99]

Sorry for the confusion I meant I'm almost completely sure Edwards is a better winger than MWZ too. That's what I meant.

Oh i knew what you meant. I just quoted you while hitting on the same topic.

 

[seal]

Development squad players announced.

Dean Blore: crafty five-eighth. Handy goalkicker too. Recovering from shoulder injury, set to return mid-season

Shawn Blore: very tough back-rower. Highly rated by the club and the captain of our National Championship winning SG Ball team last year.

Spencer Leniu: aggressive front-rower who played under-18s Origin last season despite missing most of the SG Ball season injured.

Billy Burns: ball-playing second rower from the country. Very similar to Wade Graham with his left-foot kicking game

Brian Too: extremely strong/fast/skilful winger. Has scored some cracking solo tries in the lower grades

Brayden McGrady: new signing from Q Cup. A fast centre like James Roberts. Coming off a knee reco

https://www.penrithpanthers.com.au/news/2019/02/11/panthers-confirms-nrl-development-players/

 

[franklin2323]

Good list that. Glad we aren't rushing them into the top grade

 

[abpanther]

https://www.theherald.com.au/story/5900950/cleary-reveals-plan-for-key-hooker-role/

Sounds like Katoa will get the nod ahead of Egan to start the year?