2019 RM Cup & Sydney Shield

[Pantherman72]

I think they’d be a middle table team in RMC to be honest.
They wouldnt have a chance of winning the comp at all but would be a very competitive team.
Look back to the 2016 season,all the games they played were on the bye weekend of RMC,naturally clubs filled their shield team with Massey players.They still won the comp against a very very good Mounties team which featured a tone of their RMC players and a handful of State Cup players.
Go through the 2018 Grand final team list(basically identical to 2016) ,all at some point have played 20s,RMC & State Cup,Gallant played in the NRL.
So they do have the caliber and should have been placed in the RMC after 2016 i believe.

Wests have only won 7 of their last 40 games at Ron Massey level finishing 2nd Last and Last. There is no way East Campbelltown would finish above them so to suggest they would be mid table or competitive in Ron Massey is fantasy. The gap between Sydney Shield and Massey is huge. Most Ron Massey teams would beat their Shield teams by 50 plus easily yet their Shield teams compete with East Campbelltown. Teams may have dropped back some players on BYE weeks from Ron Massey but the PPIS is much lower in Shield meaning that East Campbelltown never had to face a team full of Massey players as they couldnt fit them into the PPIS. Most Massey players dropping back on those weeks needed the fitness. You did not see their best players dropping back.
If they were going to finish mid table then which 5 teams would they finish in front of?

 

[MountainMan]

Wests have only won 7 of their last 40 games at Ron Massey level finishing 2nd Last and Last. There is no way East Campbelltown would finish above them so to suggest they would be mid table or competitive in Ron Massey is fantasy. The gap between Sydney Shield and Massey is huge. Most Ron Massey teams would beat their Shield teams by 50 plus easily yet their Shield teams compete with East Campbelltown. Teams may have dropped back some players on BYE weeks from Ron Massey but the PPIS is much lower in Shield meaning that East Campbelltown never had to face a team full of Massey players as they couldnt fit them into the PPIS. Most Massey players dropping back on those weeks needed the fitness. You did not see their best players dropping back.
If they were going to finish mid table then which 5 teams would they finish in front of?

Apart from the final series games i didnt watch much of them in 2018 but off the top of my head when I did 2017 they played Cabramatta with the likes of Jason Thompson and Donny Thompson (both were selected in the Massey rep squad) and a host of others,14 Massey players who played the week prior and then the following week.
Blacktown ,had the likes of Josh Tangitau,Andrew Fiagatusa,Tala Mapasone,Matt Place (these are State Cup players) and co.
They won both games,convincingly.
I think the only teams they don’t beat would be,Wenty,St Mary’s,Glebe,Mounties.
Would definitely defeat Wests and Brothers.
The other teams would be competitive games -Cabra,Hills,Guildford etc
We’re talking about a team with,no pre season,no trial games,train minimum times/days & are extremely successful.Im sure if they were to add these simple things,with another quality player or two,they would be competitive in RMC.

 

[imgunawin72]

Apart from the final series games i didnt watch much of them in 2018 but off the top of my head when I did 2017 they played Cabramatta with the likes of Jason Thompson and Donny Thompson (both were selected in the Massey rep squad) and a host of others,14 Massey players who played the week prior and then the following week.
Blacktown ,had the likes of Josh Tangitau,Andrew Fiagatusa,Tala Mapasone,Matt Place (these are State Cup players) and co.
They won both games,convincingly.
I think the only teams they don’t beat would be,Wenty,St Mary’s,Glebe,Mounties.
Would definitely defeat Wests and Brothers.
The other teams would be competitive games -Cabra,Hills,Guildford etc
We’re talking about a team with,no pre season,no trial games,train minimum times/days & are extremely successful.Im sure if they were to add these simple things,with another quality player or two,they would be competitive in RMC.

May be its a money thing,, they cant afford the extra match payments that RMC players get?

 

[siv]

It would be nice to see a draw

Also should we split ISP-Flegg from RMC-SS threads

As the ISP-Flegg teams draw etc is usually heavy aligned with the NRL

Shouldnt be too hard to line-up the ISP-Flegg games to be on the same weekend when their NRL counterparts play

Then arrange the rest of the ISP-Flegg matches around this

 

[rightleftin]

I suspect that the reason ISP, RMC, SS and flegg are all in one thread is that RMC/SS accounts for 95% of discussion so ISP/Flegg don't justify separate thread.

 

[MountainMan]

May be its a money thing,, they cant afford the extra match payments that RMC players get?

I don’t know where they rank in terms of player payments.But they have recruited these players back from bigger clubs at higher levels.So i would say money wise their ok.Might be facilities or they might just enjoy playing that non serious part time park football with their junior club(as i believe a high percent are club juniors) either way,if they win the comp this year,they would be kidding themselves staying in the SS comp going forward.

 

[Timmah]

I suspect that the reason ISP, RMC, SS and flegg are all in one thread is that RMC/SS accounts for 95% of discussion so ISP/Flegg don't justify separate thread.

Happy to split it out and keep this as RMC/SS

 

[rightleftin]

In the photos from Mounties beach session last month, Eloni Vunakece appears to have participated. The media stated that Vunakece had retired due to multiple concussions but maybe is old Balmain teammate, Jared Farlow has convinced him to play for his Mounties lineup.

 

[BulaMana]

In the photos from Mounties beach session last month, Eloni Vunakece appears to have participated. The media stated that Vunakece had retired due to multiple concussions but maybe is old Balmain teammate, Jared Farlow has convinced him to play for his Mounties lineup.

Eloni has taken up a coaching/trainer position with Mounties, I'm fairly sure.

Also, looks like Greg Eastwood has signed with Newtown Jets.

 

[kbw]

ECE would not be competitive against RMC teams with the squad they have. I admire the way they play SS and the games I have seen them in they grind out wins generally coming home with experience.

They did not thrash most sides in the SS that had RMC teams and the difference between the grades would be too much

 

[Tigers1986]

Valid points but due to the pathways nonsense, they can't be in RMC due to the mythical 'promotion' with Western Suburbs.

 

[rightleftin]

After 7 seasons of RMC with Wests, Tom Morrison has returned to East Campbelltown.

 

[MountainMan]

After 7 seasons of RMC with Wests, Tom Morrison has returned to East Campbelltown.

Was playing State Cup for Wests not to long ago either.
West have lost their quality players,looks as though they could be in for an even tougher season then 2018

 

[Pantherman72]

Apart from the final series games i didnt watch much of them in 2018 but off the top of my head when I did 2017 they played Cabramatta with the likes of Jason Thompson and Donny Thompson (both were selected in the Massey rep squad) and a host of others,14 Massey players who played the week prior and then the following week.
Blacktown ,had the likes of Josh Tangitau,Andrew Fiagatusa,Tala Mapasone,Matt Place (these are State Cup players) and co.
They won both games,convincingly.
I think the only teams they don’t beat would be,Wenty,St Mary’s,Glebe,Mounties.
Would definitely defeat Wests and Brothers.
The other teams would be competitive games -Cabra,Hills,Guildford etc
We’re talking about a team with,no pre season,no trial games,train minimum times/days & are extremely successful.Im sure if they were to add these simple things,with another quality player or two,they would be competitive in RMC.

Cabra and Guildford would put 60 on East Campbelltown.

Round one last year Asquith Sydney Shield beat East Campbelltown. Their Massey only drew with Wests.

A couple of Massey players dropping back to Sydney Shield can be handled by East Campbelltown but to play against a whole 17, some of who are dropped down from ISP squads, every week, would be a huge step up. They wouldnt win a game.

 

[Sharkie Army Gorilla]

Cronulla Sharks (u/20s) v Sydney Uni this Saturday 1.30pm @ Sharks Academy Fields

 

[MountainMan]

Cabra and Guildford would put 60 on East Campbelltown.

Round one last year Asquith Sydney Shield beat East Campbelltown. Their Massey only drew with Wests.

A couple of Massey players dropping back to Sydney Shield can be handled by East Campbelltown but to play against a whole 17, some of who are dropped down from ISP squads, every week, would be a huge step up. They wouldnt win a game.

With a little research and Im just stating the facts mate..they beat a Cabramatta “Shield team” with 14 RMC Players (which is not a couple) by a number of tries,which had their best player Don Thompson playing...14..remembering 17 take the field .
As well as the other two examples I used.
Hardly getting 60 put on them.
Clubs with the strong ISP connections (Glebe,Wenty,Mounties,St Marys) they would most likely lose by a large margin,which is exactly what i said before.

But the other teams would be competitive games.
Would they beat Wests?
Would they beat Brothers?
The answer is Yes to both and both West and Brothers defeated other teams during the season and had some competitive games.
Asquith did beat them in Round 1..by two points with a try in the 77th minute.
East first game of the year (they do zero trials games every year) and their “pre season” began two weeks prior to round one.They flogged them twice after that.
They have a team with Players who have played ISP at some point..id say over half the team.
If they took it more seriously,they would be a ‘OK’ RMC Team,more so then the bottom 2-3 .Would they win the comp?No,no chance.
thats the facts of the matter.

 

[rightleftin]

The problem with comparing different years is demonstrated by the 2017 version of Cabra. They were not RMC standard - they lost the first 8 games - and after that didn't really have 2 teams with 6-8 regularly playing both grades and in their last game they had only 23 players so 11 played both grades, so in effect, it was mainly SS players in RMC rather than RMC guys dropping back to SS during the 7 RMC byes (with the exception of Thompsons and Tom Harris).

The 2018 Cabra side was a grade stronger than 2017 and 2019 will be a further step up in class.

 

[Pantherman72]

The problem with comparing different years is demonstrated by the 2017 version of Cabra. They were not RMC standard - they lost the first 8 games - and after that didn't really have 2 teams with 6-8 regularly playing both grades and in their last game they had only 23 players so 11 played both grades, so in effect, it was mainly SS players in RMC rather than RMC guys dropping back to SS during the 7 RMC byes (with the exception of Thompsons and Tom Harris).

The 2018 Cabra side was a grade stronger than 2017 and 2019 will be a further step up in class.

Exactly.

You can use one off games to back up your argument like the Cabramatta game or one or two others or also look at the 9 games they lost in that season as well.

There is very little difference between the top 8 in Ron Massey Cup. Injuries, players dropping back and what day their ISP feeder play can be the difference between 2 or 3 wins and finishing 2nd or 8th. East Campbelltown wouldn't get near any of them from what I've seen. They may have a handful of players who have played ISP but are they fit enough now or at that level? Not even close.

Where did they finish last time they stepped up a grade?

 

[MountainMan]

Exactly.

You can use one off games to back up your argument like the Cabramatta game or one or two others or also look at the 9 games they lost in that season as well.

There is very little difference between the top 8 in Ron Massey Cup. Injuries, players dropping back and what day their ISP feeder play can be the difference between 2 or 3 wins and finishing 2nd or 8th. East Campbelltown wouldn't get near any of them from what I've seen. They may have a handful of players who have played ISP but are they fit enough now or at that level? Not even close.

Where did they finish last time they stepped up a grade?

Your banging on the same points mate but im not disagreeing.
They WOULD NOT win many games in RMC,they WOULD NOT make the finals and they WOULD NOT beat the clubs Ive continually mention.
But they WOULD beat Wests and Brothers which makes them a better standard then the bottom 2.
That is my point which tou have not agreed upon..
They were in the Bundy Cup and finished exactly where im stating they would finish in the RMC today......3rd from the bottom.
The games I used as example are your opinion Vs facts . Were those Cabra players at a RMC standard and a competitive team that season? No.
But they still won games,didnt finish last.i use the examples i have because apart from the prelim and grand final i hvent watched a ECE game this season.
In 5 years theyve won 3 Shield titles and literally apply themselves less then a under 15 age team in the local district comp.
Credit where its due,like it or not.

 

[imgunawin72]

Happy to split it out and keep this as RMC/SS

I think it should be all in the same thread. You have players moving between RMC and ISP , flegg and SS as well as between RMC n SS.