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2020 Origin II - NSW 34-10 QLD @ ANZ

Series: NSW v QLD


  • Total voters
    15
  • Poll closed .

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Staff member
Messages
4,542


Origin 2020 - Series
New South Wales v Queensland
ANZ Stadium, Sydney Olympic Park
Wednesday 11 November 2020

Kickoff 8:10pm - Nine / 9Now


TL-NSWM20.png


1. James Tedesco 2. Daniel Tupou 3. Clinton Gutherson 4. Jack Wighton 5. Josh Addo-Carr 6. Cody Walker 7. Nathan Cleary 8. Daniel Saifiti 9. Damien Cook 10. Payne Haas 11. Angus Crichton 12. Tyson Frizell 13. Jake Trbojevic
Interchange: 14. Dale Finucane 15. Junior Paulo 16. Nathan Brown 17. Isaah Yeo

TL-QLDM20.png


1. Valentine Holmes 2. Xavier Coates 3. Kurt Capewell 4. Dane Gagai 5. Phillip Sami 6. Cameron Munster 7. Daly Cherry-Evans 8. Dunamis Lui 9. Jake Friend 10. Josh Papali'i 11. Felise Kaufusi 12. Jaydn Su'A 13. Tino Fa'asuamaleaui
Interchange: 14. Ben Hunt 15. Lindsay Collins 16. Jai Arrow 17. Moeaki Fotuaika


F4p3I6i.jpg


Referees: Gerard Sutton
Sideline Officials: Chris Butler, Todd Smith
Video Referees: Steve Chiddy

 
Last edited by a moderator:

moffla

Bench
Messages
2,698
I hope we learn from previous failings and don't go wielding the axe too much, but it's clear some changes are needed.

Freddy needs to be a bit ruthless here and pick players in their position and if you're not good enough then so be it. Our outside backs were a bit over the shop. Gutho is not a centre. We have pretty handy centres available, so pick them.

Even JAC, who was probably our best, had a few sticky moments on that right wing. He's the best left wing player in the comp. Leave him there!

Find your best players for those positions and stick to it. It's really not that difficult.
 

Lemon Squash

First Grade
Messages
7,009
I think there is more to this than just a couple of lineup changes... in general the football the entire team dished up was very ordinary.

I reckon its a classic case of the team thinking they had the game in the bag before running out there. QLD had no pressure on them as nobody gave them a chance, they rolled their sleeves up and got stuck in and deserved the win.

I didn't really see any clear plan with what NSW was trying to achieve, looked pretty basic try and roll forward then just spread it wide with block shapes and see what happens. QLD had a smart plan in targeting Wighton and Gutho playing out of position... Gutho had to make 30 tackles (he wouldn't do that in a season at fullback) and to his credit he only missed 2 but one of those was critical.

The only good news for NSW is I don't think they could of played much worse and I don't think QLD could play much better and it was three tries a piece.
 

myrrh ken

First Grade
Messages
8,975
I hope we learn from previous failings and don't go wielding the axe too much, but it's clear some changes are needed.

Freddy needs to be a bit ruthless here and pick players in their position and if you're not good enough then so be it. Our outside backs were a bit over the shop. Gutho is not a centre. We have pretty handy centres available, so pick them.

Even JAC, who was probably our best, had a few sticky moments on that right wing. He's the best left wing player in the comp. Leave him there!

Find your best players for those positions and stick to it. It's really not that difficult.

Why they changed to accommodate daniel bloody toopoo I will never know.
Cotric for Toopoo.
Lomax might come in for gutho.
Maybe walker for Keary. Gutho to bench.
 
Messages
7,786
Both teams will be far better in the second game, after many haven’t played in over a month before game 1.

Also no need for flights in on the day of the match will help, but wonder when Qld will fly down?

Barring injury I’d expect Qld to stay as is.

NSW - I’d suggest some changes are a must but Fittlers head is more baffling than a walk in the Labyrinth.. so dunno what he’ll do.

I don’t profess to be the mastermind of rugby league selectors but this is what I’d do..

Move Wighton to 6, leave out keary (who’s had arm issues/injuries in his last 2 games). Wighton won the Dally M this year in a number 6 jersey... why pick him out of position..

Centres - Crichton and Lomax to come in. Genuine Centres who’ve played there all season. We had 2 tries from the Qld centres who went right through their opposite numbers. Pick genuine centres to do the job.

I’d leave out Frizell. The bloke has been fantastic previous years but has been a shadow of his former self this year and didn’t have much impact again in game 1. Bring in Dale Finucane (hopefully fit).

If Cameron Murray is out through injury, Isaah Yeo is a must. But I’d have Yeo in anyway ahead of Angus Crichton.

If Cotric is fit, replace Tupou.

For bench versatility, I’d bring in Cameron Mcinnes as the “utility”.. the bloke can and will plug any position in the forwards. He also can get go forward with his pace. Which Cook can then capitalise on with his after-burners out of dummy half.

So... wholesale changes!

Ins..

Finucane
Lomax
S Crichton
Cotric
Yeo (bench)
Mcinnes (bench)

Outs

Frizell
Tupou
Walker
Gutherson
A Crichton
Murray

Team

Tedesco
Cotric
Crichton
Lomax
Addo Carr
Wighton
Cleary
Trbojevic
Finucane
Cordner
Paulo
Cook
Saifiti

Bench
Haas
Yeo
Murray (assuming fit, if not, A Crichton to stay)
Mcinnes
 

The_Frog

Bench
Messages
4,309
Team

Tedesco
Cotric
Crichton
Lomax
Addo Carr
Wighton
Cleary
Trbojevic
Finucane
Cordner
Paulo
Cook
Saifiti

Bench
Haas
Yeo
Murray (assuming fit, if not, A Crichton to stay)
Mcinnes
The problem as I see it with this approach is covering an injury in the backs. Yeo can play centre at an absolute pinch but he's not quick enough changing direction these days to stop a Gagai et al and could be targeted. Fittler messed up not picking a proper utility, who can cover backs and forwards. This allows an additional forward on the bench without the need to play people out of position in the backs in case of injury.
 

Zadar

Juniors
Messages
907
Both teams will be far better in the second game, after many haven’t played in over a month before game 1.

Also no need for flights in on the day of the match will help, but wonder when Qld will fly down?

Barring injury I’d expect Qld to stay as is.

NSW - I’d suggest some changes are a must but Fittlers head is more baffling than a walk in the Labyrinth.. so dunno what he’ll do.

I don’t profess to be the mastermind of rugby league selectors but this is what I’d do..

Move Wighton to 6, leave out keary (who’s had arm issues/injuries in his last 2 games). Wighton won the Dally M this year in a number 6 jersey... why pick him out of position..

Centres - Crichton and Lomax to come in. Genuine Centres who’ve played there all season. We had 2 tries from the Qld centres who went right through their opposite numbers. Pick genuine centres to do the job.

I’d leave out Frizell. The bloke has been fantastic previous years but has been a shadow of his former self this year and didn’t have much impact again in game 1. Bring in Dale Finucane (hopefully fit).

If Cameron Murray is out through injury, Isaah Yeo is a must. But I’d have Yeo in anyway ahead of Angus Crichton.

If Cotric is fit, replace Tupou.

For bench versatility, I’d bring in Cameron Mcinnes as the “utility”.. the bloke can and will plug any position in the forwards. He also can get go forward with his pace. Which Cook can then capitalise on with his after-burners out of dummy half.

So... wholesale changes!

Ins..

Finucane
Lomax
S Crichton
Cotric
Yeo (bench)
Mcinnes (bench)

Outs

Frizell
Tupou
Walker
Gutherson
A Crichton
Murray

Team

Tedesco
Cotric
Crichton
Lomax
Addo Carr
Wighton
Cleary
Trbojevic
Finucane
Cordner
Paulo
Cook
Saifiti

Bench
Haas
Yeo
Murray (assuming fit, if not, A Crichton to stay)
Mcinnes

haas plays the same if he starts the game or comes off the bench, so I would start him, because he can play big minutes without it affecting how he plays, interchange paulo and saifiti for impact and offloads. I also think Jturbo offers very little recently, doesn’t bend the line, and has lost all playmaking ability somehow in the last season or so, Yeo deserves to start, bench impact from jturbo maybe?
 
Messages
7,786
The problem as I see it with this approach is covering an injury in the backs. Yeo can play centre at an absolute pinch but he's not quick enough changing direction these days to stop a Gagai et al and could be targeted. Fittler messed up not picking a proper utility, who can cover backs and forwards. This allows an additional forward on the bench without the need to play people out of position in the backs in case of injury.

Yep it's the age old conundrum. And I get it. I just don't think we have a genuine utility in the whole squad. And Walker is a pure 5/8 like Keary - so not true utility value.

Who would you have as the utility?

These are the backs options from the current squad (barring injury etc). ** were selected game 1.

Tedesco**
Addo Carr**
Wighton**
Gutherson**
Tupou**
Keary**
Cleary**
Papenhuyzen
Cotric
Lomax
S Crichton
Luai

Personally I wouldn't have any of them - rather take a chance on an back rower who could plug centre, push the centre out to the wing, wing to fullback etc (if need be). Take a chance the halves will pull through ok.

So i'd put in Yeo as this bloke - even though he's a lock. And possibly consider Frizell to plug a centre role (defensively) if it was absolutely necessary. I'd have otherwise put Cameron Murray in here but he's out for the series now.

It's by no means a great solution but I can't see an alternative great solution no matter who went into that role ,
 

The_Frog

Bench
Messages
4,309
Who would you have as the utility?
I suggested Tyrone May ages ago, but I knew they wouldn't select him. Maybe Fittler has been told not to. I know he's not quite a superstar, but if he were the 14 you could have a bench with 4 forwards, since he can play hooker, backrow or lock as well as halves and centres. This is why Peachey played Origin, not because he was a world beater (his form was much better than it is now though), but because he covered so many positions adequately at the time, he allowed far more options elsewhere in the team.
 
Messages
7,786
I suggested Tyrone May ages ago, but I knew they wouldn't select him. Maybe Fittler has been told not to. I know he's not quite a superstar, but if he were the 14 you could have a bench with 4 forwards, since he can play hooker, backrow or lock as well as halves and centres. This is why Peachey played Origin, not because he was a world beater (his form was much better than it is now though), but because he covered so many positions adequately at the time, he allowed far more options elsewhere in the team.

Sadly we've lost one of the best utilities in recent times due to retirement - Mitch Aubusson. I thought we should have had him in the mix - he's never let a side down and reckon he'd have been brilliant for the blues if needed - despite age. But that's not an option now..

Understood your thoughts on May.

But in looking at who we have in the squad (everyone else outside it is off limits now they've left their bubbles)... I can't think of a great option who can do it.

Anyway let's see what they roll out for game two - I'm guessing 3 players will be demoted from game 1, on top of Murray who's cactus.
 

soc123_au

Coach
Messages
13,613
Luai played the bench utility role last year. Not really the direction I would go for an origin game though.
 

blue bags

First Grade
Messages
6,049
Yep it's the age old conundrum. And I get it. I just don't think we have a genuine utility in the whole squad. And Walker is a pure 5/8 like Keary - so not true utility value.

Who would you have as the utility?

These are the backs options from the current squad (barring injury etc). ** were selected game 1.

Tedesco**
Addo Carr**
Wighton**
Gutherson**
Tupou**
Keary**
Cleary**
Papenhuyzen
Cotric
Lomax
S Crichton
Luai

Personally I wouldn't have any of them - rather take a chance on an back rower who could plug centre, push the centre out to the wing, wing to fullback etc (if need be). Take a chance the halves will pull through ok.

So i'd put in Yeo as this bloke - even though he's a lock. And possibly consider Frizell to plug a centre role (defensively) if it was absolutely necessary. I'd have otherwise put Cameron Murray in here but he's out for the series now.

It's by no means a great solution but I can't see an alternative great solution no matter who went into that role ,
your very funny :)
 

aqua_duck

Coach
Messages
16,862
Apparently Cordner could be out for the rest of the series due to concerns about his head knocks which whilst unfortunate for Boyd is fantastic news for NSW. I like Cordner but he's a defensive liability, his lateral movement is non existent and he's very susceptible to late footwork (And head knocks) because he sets his feet dips his head so early when attempting a tackle, we saw it multiple times against Canberra in the elimination final and saw it a few times against Munster and DCE in origin 1, the only positive for him is most of the time he doesn't even get a hand on them so it doesn't count as a missed tackle. Overall Freddy needs to be smarter with his prop rotation, he can't have both Saifti and Paulo off the field for so long again, when they were getting splinters on their backsides at the beginning of the second half NSW lost all their go forward and were struggling to make 40m per set
 

Captain Apollo

First Grade
Messages
9,300
Apparently Cordner could be out for the rest of the series due to concerns about his head knocks which whilst unfortunate for Boyd is fantastic news for NSW. I like Cordner but he's a defensive liability, his lateral movement is non existent and he's very susceptible to late footwork (And head knocks) because he sets his feet dips his head so early when attempting a tackle, we saw it multiple times against Canberra in the elimination final and saw it a few times against Munster and DCE in origin 1, the only positive for him is most of the time he doesn't even get a hand on them so it doesn't count as a missed tackle. Overall Freddy needs to be smarter with his prop rotation, he can't have both Saifti and Paulo off the field for so long again, when they were getting splinters on their backsides at the beginning of the second half NSW lost all their go forward and were struggling to make 40m per set

Fittler needs to pick two specialist props on the interchange bench. By going with only one, you reduce someone like Jake T to playing a bash and barge game which is not his strongest suit. Not every player who plays lock forward in the NRL is suited to playing front row. NSW keep doing this and it costs them more often than not.

This is even more important this year with the 6 again rule speeding up the game even more, you need to have proper "power" players on the field who are relatively fresh at all times. You can't do that with only 3 specialist front row forwards in your 17 player squad. Without go forward from the front rowers, the halves and backs can do little as they have no time and space to do anything creative with the ball.
 

myrrh ken

First Grade
Messages
8,975
Yep it's the age old conundrum. And I get it. I just don't think we have a genuine utility in the whole squad. And Walker is a pure 5/8 like Keary - so not true utility value.

Who would you have as the utility?

These are the backs options from the current squad (barring injury etc). ** were selected game 1.

Tedesco**
Addo Carr**
Wighton**
Gutherson**
Tupou**
Keary**
Cleary**
Papenhuyzen
Cotric
Lomax
S Crichton
Luai

Personally I wouldn't have any of them - rather take a chance on an back rower who could plug centre, push the centre out to the wing, wing to fullback etc (if need be). Take a chance the halves will pull through ok.

So i'd put in Yeo as this bloke - even though he's a lock. And possibly consider Frizell to plug a centre role (defensively) if it was absolutely necessary. I'd have otherwise put Cameron Murray in here but he's out for the series now.

It's by no means a great solution but I can't see an alternative great solution no matter who went into that role ,

Definitely Frizell in the centres. He's quick enough.

The problem is our starting "centres" are crap.
 

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