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2021 RLWC draw

Discussion in 'World Cup 2021' started by Jim from Oz, Nov 17, 2019.

  1. Valheru

    Valheru First Grade

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    I don't think we should be doctoring the draw and try and get specific match ups in the knockouts and or 1v2 in the final. To me that would be a step backwards after the massive step forwards of having proper groups of 4 where top 2 go through as opposed to the abomination at the last couple of world cups.

    Seedings should matter for the pool draw and that's where it ends. It should just follow the logical design.

    QF1 - A1 v B2
    QF2 - C1 v D2
    QF3 - B1 v A2
    QF4 - D1 v C2

    SF1 - QF1 v QF2
    SF2 - QF3 v QF4

    F - SF1 - SF2

    The only thing that should be assured is members of the same group can't meet again until the final which the above caters for.

    if 1 plays 2 in the semis, so be it.
     
    Coastbloke likes this.
  2. adamkungl

    adamkungl Immortal

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    Like I said, there are 6 QF+SF formats that dont repeat games.
    There are 5 just as valid as the one you posted, nothing makes yours special over the others.
    So why not pick the one most likely to bring a financial advantage?
    I'd also argue it isn't 'doctoring' to ensure that the best 2 teams can meet in the final if they win through.

    It's still within the accepted rules of the format, Not really comparable to the super pools which seriously altered the balance to get the desired outcome.
     
    Springs09 likes this.
  3. Springs09

    Springs09 Juniors

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    That's not the logical design though, why is QF2 C1 v D2? That's just rigged to try and get the usual England v NZ, Aus v 4th team semis.

    'Most Logical' is the first one I posted, though it's not necessarily the best -
    A1 v B2
    B1 v A2
    C1 v D2
    D1 v C2

    QF1 v QF4
    QF2 v QF3

    Quarter Finals follow the pools - eg QF1 - A1, QF2 - B2 etc. Semis are the usual 1st v 4th, 2nd v 3rd you see in most comps.

    Which if follows favourites would go
    England v Fiji
    Australia v Samoa
    NZ v PNG
    Tonga v Ireland

    England v Tonga
    Australia v NZ

    Which also makes sense given England is host and first seed
     
  4. jim_57

    jim_57 Bench

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    Agree with this. Basically when 2 teams qualify from the same pool they shouldn't be able to meet again until the final.
     
  5. Valheru

    Valheru First Grade

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    I just think there is something pure about a proper unseeded draw after the knockout stage. The whole format should be worked out and then perform the pool draws. Seeds should only matter in terms of placing teams in a pot and then from there, pardon the pun, but it is pot luck.
     
    deluded pom? likes this.
  6. Valheru

    Valheru First Grade

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    I honestly didn't know my design resulted in AUS v 4 and ENG v NZ, that wasn't the intent.

    QF2 is C1 v D2 so that the winner isn't in the same pool as the winner of QF1. D1 v C2 would be equally logical, i Just went in alphabetical order which is the exact format FIFA uses.
     
  7. Burns

    Burns First Grade

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    Look,

    Seeing Australia play anyone else other than Fiji for the third time in a row during a Semi Final is all I care about.
     
    Jim from Oz and Coastbloke like this.
  8. Springs09

    Springs09 Juniors

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    Anyone on their preferred group draws?

    I had a go

    Week 1
    England v Samoa - Newcastle
    France v Greece - Doncaster
    Australia v Italy - Headingley
    Fiji v Scotland - Kingston
    NZ v Jamaica - Warrington
    Ireland v Lebanon - St Helens
    Tonga v PNG - Hull
    Wales v Cook Islands - Leigh

    Week 2
    England v France - Sheffield
    Samoa v Greece - Kingston
    Australia v Scotland - Middlesbrough
    Fiji v Italy - Headingley
    NZ v Ireland - St Helens
    Lebanon v Jamaica - Leigh
    Tonga v Wales - Warrington
    PNG v Cook Islands - Doncaster

    Week 3
    England v Greece - Bolton
    Samoa v France - Warrington
    Australia v Fiji - Coventry
    Italy v Scotland - Kingston
    NZ v Lebanon - Headingley
    Ireland v Jamaica - Leigh
    Tonga v Cook Islands - St Helens
    PNG v Wales - Doncaster

    QF2 - B1 v A2 – (Australia v Samoa) – Huddersfield – Fri 7.30pm
    QF1 - A1 v B2 – (England v Fiji) – Liverpool – Sat 3pm
    QF3 - C1 v D2 – (NZ v PNG) – Hull – Sat 7pm
    QF4 - D1 v C2 – (Tonga v Ireland) – Bolton – Sun 3pm

    SF1 – QF1 v QF4 – (England v Tonga) – Emirates – Sat 3pm
    SF2 – QF2 v QF3 – (Australia v NZ) – Elland Road – Sun 3pm

    Final – SF1 v SF2 – (England v Australia) - Old Trafford – Sat 3pm
     
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  9. adamkungl

    adamkungl Immortal

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    The draw is out and the quarter finals format confirmed:
    (with possible matchups)

    QF1 Nov 12 Huddersfield
    B1 v C2 AUSTRALIA v LEBANON

    QF2 Nov 13 Liverpool
    A1 v D2 ENGLAND v PNG

    QF3 Nov 13 Hull
    C1 v B2 NEW ZEALAND v FIJI

    QF4 Nov 14 Bolton
    D1 v A2 TONGA v SAMOA

    The semi final crossovers aren't specifically noted in the draw (i hate it when they do this) but my suspicion/hope is that as NZ are ranked #1 and were at the time of the draw, their pool will be given "1st seed" status and draw the game v pool D (4th seed), giving us the bolded matchups
    We can probably rule out QF1 v QF3 + QF2 v QF4 due to potential game overlap.

    SF1 Nov 19 Leeds
    QF1 v QF2 AUSTRALIA v ENGLAND
    or QF1 v QF4 AUSTRALIA v TONGA

    SF2 Nov 20 London
    QF3 v QF4 NEW ZEALAND v TONGA
    or QF2 v QF3 ENGLAND v NEW ZEALAND

    GF Nov 27 Manchester
     
  10. Coastbloke

    Coastbloke Bench

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  11. adamkungl

    adamkungl Immortal

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    Regarding the rest of the draw, games are spread out with lots of midweek games and few overlaps (on first glance...) for the travelling fans.

    Womens and Wheelchair games start the week of the Mens Quarter Finals and there are some good double header pairings with womens games either 2 for the price of 1 or paired with a mens quarter final.
     
  12. Foreign Legion

    Foreign Legion First Grade

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  13. adamkungl

    adamkungl Immortal

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    If this graphic is correct, I'm a little disappointed in the finals format. The QFs should ideally cross-over to prevent possible rematches before the finals.
    We could have a scenario where group co-members face off in a semi final. Not a huge deal for most people probably but not ideal for the format nerds -and tbh the media has picked on things like this in finals formats over the years too.

    This states the seedings are - 1 - England (hosts), 2 - Australia (cup holders), 3 - New Zealand (IRL rank), 4 - Tonga (IRL rank)
    https://www.rlwc2021.com/article/236/full-rlwc2021-fixture-schedule-announced

    Assuming the Quarters are locked in as is - the Semi finals in the graphic are seeded to 1v4 and 2v3.
    But they could be 1v3 and 2v4 which is just as fair but avoids rematches.
    So i'm hoping for
    SF1 = QF2 v QF3 (seeds 1v3 - England v New Zealand)
    SF2 = QF1 v QF4 (seeds 2v4 - Australia v Tonga)

    OR.... if they want 1v4 Semi final (give England a marginally easier ride to the final)
    The QFs groups should be paired as A vs B or C, not A vs D.

    Is this a weird thing to harp on about? - definitely!
     
  14. undertaker

    undertaker First Grade

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    Would've preferred to see the final as a 2:30pm fixture (like it was in 2013) rather than 5pm at night, but what to do....


    I 100% agree with you regarding the QFs cross-over after looking at the structure of the finals. This should've been done to prevent potential semi-final re-matches with group members.

    Looking at it, it seems the tournament organisers have deliberately paired groups A/D and B/C together for finals fixtures to try to give England the best chance of making the final by ruling out any possibility of potentially facing Australia or New Zealand in the Quarter-Finals or Semi-Finals.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2020
  15. Clarkent

    Clarkent Juniors

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    The Samoan team the English might end up facing...
    1 Milford
    2 To'o
    3 Crichton
    4 Leilua
    5 Nofoaluma
    6 CHT
    7 Luai
    8 Paulo
    9 Levi
    10 Papali'i (if he chooses Samoa over origin)
    11 Sua
    12 Faitala Mariner
    13 Taupau

    That'll be a tough team for the English to beat
     
  16. Pommy

    Pommy Coach

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    I remember prior to the test in Campbelltown people making similar comments and it wasn’t even close. Samoa have some names associated with them but so far the team has done nothing of note, as things stand I’m not very worried. Things could change in 18 months I guess.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2020
    langpark likes this.
  17. stryker

    stryker Juniors

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    Poms will put 30 on that side
     
    langpark likes this.
  18. titoelcolombiano

    titoelcolombiano Bench

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    Maybe SBW off the bench too as his swansong.
     
  19. adamkungl

    adamkungl Immortal

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    Samoa aren't doing anything until they get a real coach
     
    titoelcolombiano likes this.
  20. langpark

    langpark First Grade

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    Isn't Taupau currently still playing for NZ too?

    I cannot see Samoa doing much. They should make it to the QFs, but no further. An off-day against France and they won't even get that far though.
     

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