2021 RLWC draw

[Valheru]

I don't think we should be doctoring the draw and try and get specific match ups in the knockouts and or 1v2 in the final. To me that would be a step backwards after the massive step forwards of having proper groups of 4 where top 2 go through as opposed to the abomination at the last couple of world cups.

Seedings should matter for the pool draw and that's where it ends. It should just follow the logical design.

QF1 - A1 v B2
QF2 - C1 v D2
QF3 - B1 v A2
QF4 - D1 v C2

SF1 - QF1 v QF2
SF2 - QF3 v QF4

F - SF1 - SF2

The only thing that should be assured is members of the same group can't meet again until the final which the above caters for.

if 1 plays 2 in the semis, so be it.

 

[adamkungl]

I don't think we should be doctoring the draw and try and get specific match ups in the knockouts and or 1v2 in the final. To me that would be a step backwards after the massive step forwards of having proper groups of 4 where top 2 go through as opposed to the abomination at the last couple of world cups.

Seedings should matter for the pool draw and that's where it ends. It should just follow the logical design.

QF1 - A1 v B2
QF2 - C1 v D2
QF3 - B1 v A2
QF4 - D1 v C2

SF1 - QF1 v QF2
SF2 - QF3 v QF4

F - SF1 - SF2

The only thing that should be assured is members of the same group can't meet again until the final which the above caters for.

if 1 plays 2 in the semis, so be it.

Like I said, there are 6 QF+SF formats that dont repeat games.
There are 5 just as valid as the one you posted, nothing makes yours special over the others.
So why not pick the one most likely to bring a financial advantage?
I'd also argue it isn't 'doctoring' to ensure that the best 2 teams can meet in the final if they win through.

It's still within the accepted rules of the format, Not really comparable to the super pools which seriously altered the balance to get the desired outcome.

 

[Springs09]

I don't think we should be doctoring the draw and try and get specific match ups in the knockouts and or 1v2 in the final. To me that would be a step backwards after the massive step forwards of having proper groups of 4 where top 2 go through as opposed to the abomination at the last couple of world cups.

Seedings should matter for the pool draw and that's where it ends. It should just follow the logical design.

QF1 - A1 v B2
QF2 - C1 v D2
QF3 - B1 v A2
QF4 - D1 v C2

SF1 - QF1 v QF2
SF2 - QF3 v QF4

F - SF1 - SF2

The only thing that should be assured is members of the same group can't meet again until the final which the above caters for.

if 1 plays 2 in the semis, so be it.

That's not the logical design though, why is QF2 C1 v D2? That's just rigged to try and get the usual England v NZ, Aus v 4th team semis.

'Most Logical' is the first one I posted, though it's not necessarily the best -
A1 v B2
B1 v A2
C1 v D2
D1 v C2

QF1 v QF4
QF2 v QF3

Quarter Finals follow the pools - eg QF1 - A1, QF2 - B2 etc. Semis are the usual 1st v 4th, 2nd v 3rd you see in most comps.

Which if follows favourites would go
England v Fiji
Australia v Samoa
NZ v PNG
Tonga v Ireland

England v Tonga
Australia v NZ

Which also makes sense given England is host and first seed

 

[jim_57]

That's not the logical design though, why is QF2 C1 v D2? That's just rigged to try and get the usual England v NZ, Aus v 4th team semis.

'Most Logical' is the first one I posted, though it's not necessarily the best -
A1 v B2
B1 v A2
C1 v D2
D1 v C2

QF1 v QF4
QF2 v QF3

Quarter Finals follow the pools - eg QF1 - A1, QF2 - B2 etc. Semis are the usual 1st v 4th, 2nd v 3rd you see in most comps.

Which if follows favourites would go
England v Fiji
Australia v Samoa
NZ v PNG
Tonga v Ireland

England v Tonga
Australia v NZ

Which also makes sense given England is host and first seed

Agree with this. Basically when 2 teams qualify from the same pool they shouldn't be able to meet again until the final.

 

[Valheru]

Like I said, there are 6 QF+SF formats that dont repeat games.
There are 5 just as valid as the one you posted, nothing makes yours special over the others.
So why not pick the one most likely to bring a financial advantage?
I'd also argue it isn't 'doctoring' to ensure that the best 2 teams can meet in the final if they win through.

It's still within the accepted rules of the format, Not really comparable to the super pools which seriously altered the balance to get the desired outcome.

I just think there is something pure about a proper unseeded draw after the knockout stage. The whole format should be worked out and then perform the pool draws. Seeds should only matter in terms of placing teams in a pot and then from there, pardon the pun, but it is pot luck.

 

[Valheru]

That's not the logical design though, why is QF2 C1 v D2? That's just rigged to try and get the usual England v NZ, Aus v 4th team semis.

'Most Logical' is the first one I posted, though it's not necessarily the best -
A1 v B2
B1 v A2
C1 v D2
D1 v C2

QF1 v QF4
QF2 v QF3

Quarter Finals follow the pools - eg QF1 - A1, QF2 - B2 etc. Semis are the usual 1st v 4th, 2nd v 3rd you see in most comps.

Which if follows favourites would go
England v Fiji
Australia v Samoa
NZ v PNG
Tonga v Ireland

England v Tonga
Australia v NZ

Which also makes sense given England is host and first seed

I honestly didn't know my design resulted in AUS v 4 and ENG v NZ, that wasn't the intent.

QF2 is C1 v D2 so that the winner isn't in the same pool as the winner of QF1. D1 v C2 would be equally logical, i Just went in alphabetical order which is the exact format FIFA uses.

 

[Burns]

Look,

Seeing Australia play anyone else other than Fiji for the third time in a row during a Semi Final is all I care about.

 

[Springs09]

Anyone on their preferred group draws?

I had a go

Week 1
England v Samoa - Newcastle
France v Greece - Doncaster
Australia v Italy - Headingley
Fiji v Scotland - Kingston
NZ v Jamaica - Warrington
Ireland v Lebanon - St Helens
Tonga v PNG - Hull
Wales v Cook Islands - Leigh

Week 2
England v France - Sheffield
Samoa v Greece - Kingston
Australia v Scotland - Middlesbrough
Fiji v Italy - Headingley
NZ v Ireland - St Helens
Lebanon v Jamaica - Leigh
Tonga v Wales - Warrington
PNG v Cook Islands - Doncaster

Week 3
England v Greece - Bolton
Samoa v France - Warrington
Australia v Fiji - Coventry
Italy v Scotland - Kingston
NZ v Lebanon - Headingley
Ireland v Jamaica - Leigh
Tonga v Cook Islands - St Helens
PNG v Wales - Doncaster

QF2 - B1 v A2 – (Australia v Samoa) – Huddersfield – Fri 7.30pm
QF1 - A1 v B2 – (England v Fiji) – Liverpool – Sat 3pm
QF3 - C1 v D2 – (NZ v PNG) – Hull – Sat 7pm
QF4 - D1 v C2 – (Tonga v Ireland) – Bolton – Sun 3pm

SF1 – QF1 v QF4 – (England v Tonga) – Emirates – Sat 3pm
SF2 – QF2 v QF3 – (Australia v NZ) – Elland Road – Sun 3pm

Final – SF1 v SF2 – (England v Australia) - Old Trafford – Sat 3pm

 

[adamkungl]

The draw is out and the quarter finals format confirmed:
(with possible matchups)

QF1 Nov 12 Huddersfield
B1 v C2 AUSTRALIA v LEBANON

QF2 Nov 13 Liverpool
A1 v D2 ENGLAND v PNG

QF3 Nov 13 Hull
C1 v B2 NEW ZEALAND v FIJI

QF4 Nov 14 Bolton
D1 v A2 TONGA v SAMOA

The semi final crossovers aren't specifically noted in the draw (i hate it when they do this) but my suspicion/hope is that as NZ are ranked #1 and were at the time of the draw, their pool will be given "1st seed" status and draw the game v pool D (4th seed), giving us the bolded matchups
We can probably rule out QF1 v QF3 + QF2 v QF4 due to potential game overlap.

SF1 Nov 19 Leeds
QF1 v QF2 AUSTRALIA v ENGLAND
or QF1 v QF4 AUSTRALIA v TONGA

SF2 Nov 20 London
QF3 v QF4 NEW ZEALAND v TONGA
or QF2 v QF3 ENGLAND v NEW ZEALAND

GF Nov 27 Manchester

 

[Coastbloke]

Beat me to it AK..

https://www.rlwc2021.com/schedule?u...uncement__adopt_a_team&utm_content=2020-07-21

If France get beaten by Aus-Greece, I'm quitting the sport...

 

[adamkungl]

Regarding the rest of the draw, games are spread out with lots of midweek games and few overlaps (on first glance...) for the travelling fans.

Womens and Wheelchair games start the week of the Mens Quarter Finals and there are some good double header pairings with womens games either 2 for the price of 1 or paired with a mens quarter final.

 

[Foreign Legion]

 

[adamkungl]

If this graphic is correct, I'm a little disappointed in the finals format. The QFs should ideally cross-over to prevent possible rematches before the finals.
We could have a scenario where group co-members face off in a semi final. Not a huge deal for most people probably but not ideal for the format nerds -and tbh the media has picked on things like this in finals formats over the years too.

This states the seedings are - 1 - England (hosts), 2 - Australia (cup holders), 3 - New Zealand (IRL rank), 4 - Tonga (IRL rank)
https://www.rlwc2021.com/article/236/full-rlwc2021-fixture-schedule-announced

Assuming the Quarters are locked in as is - the Semi finals in the graphic are seeded to 1v4 and 2v3.
But they could be 1v3 and 2v4 which is just as fair but avoids rematches.
So i'm hoping for
SF1 = QF2 v QF3 (seeds 1v3 - England v New Zealand)
SF2 = QF1 v QF4 (seeds 2v4 - Australia v Tonga)

OR.... if they want 1v4 Semi final (give England a marginally easier ride to the final)
The QFs groups should be paired as A vs B or C, not A vs D.

Is this a weird thing to harp on about? - definitely!

 

[undertaker]

Would've preferred to see the final as a 2:30pm fixture (like it was in 2013) rather than 5pm at night, but what to do....

If this graphic is correct, I'm a little disappointed in the finals format. The QFs should ideally cross-over to prevent possible rematches before the finals.
We could have a scenario where group co-members face off in a semi final. Not a huge deal for most people probably but not ideal for the format nerds -and tbh the media has picked on things like this in finals formats over the years too.

I 100% agree with you regarding the QFs cross-over after looking at the structure of the finals. This should've been done to prevent potential semi-final re-matches with group members.

Looking at it, it seems the tournament organisers have deliberately paired groups A/D and B/C together for finals fixtures to try to give England the best chance of making the final by ruling out any possibility of potentially facing Australia or New Zealand in the Quarter-Finals or Semi-Finals.

 

[Clarkent]

The Samoan team the English might end up facing...
1 Milford
2 To'o
3 Crichton
4 Leilua
5 Nofoaluma
6 CHT
7 Luai
8 Paulo
9 Levi
10 Papali'i (if he chooses Samoa over origin)
11 Sua
12 Faitala Mariner
13 Taupau

That'll be a tough team for the English to beat

 

[Pommy]

The Samoan team the English might end up facing...
1 Milford
2 To'o
3 Crichton
4 Leilua
5 Nofoaluma
6 CHT
7 Luai
8 Paulo
9 Levi
10 Papali'i (if he chooses Samoa over origin)
11 Sua
12 Faitala Mariner
13 Taupau

That'll be a tough team for the English to beat

I remember prior to the test in Campbelltown people making similar comments and it wasn’t even close. Samoa have some names associated with them but so far the team has done nothing of note, as things stand I’m not very worried. Things could change in 18 months I guess.

 

[stryker]

I remover prior to the test in Campbelltown people making similar comments and it wasn’t even close. Samoa have some names associated with them but so far the team has done nothing of note, as things stand I’m not very worried. Things could change in 18 months I guess.

Poms will put 30 on that side

 

[titoelcolombiano]

The Samoan team the English might end up facing...
1 Milford
2 To'o
3 Crichton
4 Leilua
5 Nofoaluma
6 CHT
7 Luai
8 Paulo
9 Levi
10 Papali'i (if he chooses Samoa over origin)
11 Sua
12 Faitala Mariner
13 Taupau

That'll be a tough team for the English to beat

Maybe SBW off the bench too as his swansong.

 

[adamkungl]

Samoa aren't doing anything until they get a real coach

 

[langpark]

The Samoan team the English might end up facing...
1 Milford
2 To'o
3 Crichton
4 Leilua
5 Nofoaluma
6 CHT
7 Luai
8 Paulo
9 Levi
10 Papali'i (if he chooses Samoa over origin)
11 Sua
12 Faitala Mariner
13 Taupau

That'll be a tough team for the English to beat

Isn't Taupau currently still playing for NZ too?

I cannot see Samoa doing much. They should make it to the QFs, but no further. An off-day against France and they won't even get that far though.