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2021 Rnd 24 V Wests Tigers

ACTPanthers

Bench
Messages
4,855
Whilst I agree with you, I would gladly lose this game if it meant winning the GF. But I think we can do both - and give Parra a work over to boot!
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DinkyDi

Juniors
Messages
2,212
And they’ll be missing a few from their lineup that “beat” us so no doubt those idiots will take great pleasure in reminding us when the inevitable arse-handing their team will be given.
They will, however, we can remind them how many origin players that they have in their squad.
 

The Realist

Juniors
Messages
1,891
Momorovski does his job and as it turned out on Friday night he did better than expected.

The Wests Tigers have disappointed again, underachieved again with a top 30, 27 of which are Madge signings or re-signings, so that is a massive concern after three seasons in charge. The whole blame game around Ivan Cleary and your woes simply doesn’t cut the mustard, particularly given your team largely performed better under his stewardship.

I feel for Madge, your team and your club but sadly the blame game around Ivan Cleary has long since passed.

What has this got to do with what The Silverdale Phantom just said?
 
Messages
17,223
"Madge does not recruit" are you kidding mate? yes there is some panel there but Madge would have a big say in it for sure its delusional to think otherwise. Its funny you keep talking about Ivan and his impact on your current shitness yet it seems to me the more Ivan's touch leaves the tigers the worse you are getting. Madge has the club going backwards at a steady rate, all of the screaming and swearing is not working does he have anything else in his kit bag?
There’s an news article by our Adam Hartigan that explains our recruitment process and more description on our forum. Madge does not have the final say, that’s the guts of it and that was my point. He does not recruit on his own, he does not have control. It is just wrong in fact to suggest, imply or infer he does. It illustrates a poor understanding of wt process. Killer blew that one. So be it

For a person to posit that Ivan has flaws in character does not mean one must be totally comfortable with Madge Maguire as a coach. I am certainly not -without providing him with more assets to utilise-as a minimum.

It is not a contest of whose coach is better as a coach, that is a difficult comparison as there are too many variables-but i very much doubt Madge is a person who would put his own personal family ambitions above that of the organisation he works for and thousands of fans and supporters.

By way of a part-self correction I would hazard a guess that Hook has done a much better job at sgi than Mary did, his strong and remarkable campaign in tatters after nrl and club officialdom, made the remedy for the bbq far worse than the actual crime ( at the time). A suicidal move that did not seem stop further transgression from risk takers and idiots. Many of us saw this eventual outcome quite early.

I suppose some blame could be apportioned to the wt officials for believing that Ivan was fit and proper at the first instance, for not having the foresight to understand that his personal ambition and comfort is to the fore of his core values and concerns. Yes, I must concede that grave error of judgment on their behalf.

That is my honest opinion. P

Madge will be given to round 6 next year I’d say.

I’m out on my own backing Seibs in as a replacement to Madge, but he fixed Souths up and he had a very poisonous environment to contend with up there in Brisbane. White-anted the moment he signed.

It doesn’t really matter what I say about Ivan now, he’s meeting all expectations at the Panthers.
 
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Original Name

Juniors
Messages
1,414
He’s a post-Madge specialist.

Not his fault Kevvie had powerful friends.
Look at the players in that team he inherited. Cook, Walker, Reynolds, Burges boys, Sutton, Inglis, AJ, Adam Doueihi. They were burned out by Madge by they had a lot of fire power, most of these players were in or near the prime of their career. Cook had a career year, Tom Burges came good and started playing really well. Tigers best players are kids like the Broncos who had kids as their best players.
 
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Messages
17,223
Look at the players in that team he inherited. Cook, Walker, Reynolds, Burges boys, Sutton, Inglis, AJ, Adam Doueihi. They were burned out by Madge by they had a lot of fire power, most of these players were in or near the prime of their career. Cook had a career year, Tom Burges came good and started playing really well. Tigers best players are kids like the Broncos who had kids as their best players.
Seibs has almost the same group of players as Madge -but lifts them from the cellar into 3rd place or something. All things equal, he can coach.

Hooks success has been even more profound at sgi.
 

Original Name

Juniors
Messages
1,414
Seibs has almost the same group of players as Madge -but lifts them from the cellar into 3rd place or something. All things equal, he can coach.

Hooks success has been even more profound at sgi.
That's because Madge over trained the poor bastards so much they were probably sleeping through video sessions. Madge as a coach wasn't getting anything close to them to play at their ability post gf win. It's not they were a poor team on paper and Seibs came in and over delivered it was the other way around post gf win. Madge wasn't getting anything close to the best out of his team.
 
Messages
17,223
That's because Madge over trained the poor bastards so much they were probably sleeping through video sessions. Madge as a coach wasn't getting anything close to them to play at their ability post gf win. It's not they were a poor team on paper and Seibs came in and over delivered it was the other way around post gf win. Madge wasn't getting anything close to the best out of his team.
I think we are on the same page in some ways, but to prove your point beyond a doubt, perhaps you would need to demonstrate that another non-Madge type coach would have delivered similar success to seibs. That is not possible empirically, we will never know.

I suppose Bennett’s early Souths form would assist your case, given that he didn’t arrive with too much marquee.

Against may be a player like Stefano who bitterly complained about the tough pre season but has made the most of it and will be far wealthier for it in the long run.

But switching back to your polemic, he is one of only 6 players actually improving out of 30. That is unsatisfactory.

Player growth and development under Madge has been elusive and his position is more than tenuous.

But I think Seibs can coach. So can Flanagan. 64% win ratio his last stretch. That’s top 4 these days. His support continues to gather momentum.
 
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17,223
I don’t get what you mean by that. Hook has only won 8 from 22 games. How is that profound? And how is that success?
Because he faced considerable adversity being matters not in his control.

The loss of his best player (can m) early, a number of injuries, a long delay for jdb, further injuries ben hunt etc, Vaughn and the unfair bbq penalties.

Virtually the same squad -wins more games than last year and will finish much better in 2021 than 2019.

So relatively speaking, I think he’s done pretty well.

Madge had most of his side available for most of the year and there was a decline or stagnation but for 6 players.

Ivan has been spoiled for choice but to be fair, and despite my misgivings about his character, as a coach, he has made a good fist of things. The d last week in the second half was superb.
 

Original Name

Juniors
Messages
1,414
Being objective, why would you do that. In Nadens half a dozen appearances his run metres are 130-140 per game average, noting the Broncos game he was interchange player who played 20 minutes or so. Charlie in 20 games averages 85 metres per game. It’s fine to have favourites, I understand that, but Staines hasn’t been good enough for what we need right now.
Here at 3:55 Naden bites on Lomax at the 35 metre line when Burton has him tackled. Ravalawa makes a 50 metre line break. Are those 50 metres not Naden's fault?

These things have always appeared in his game to some extent they were just exposed by the Roosters last year. Fans just don't care about them while they're little things but in the big games those little things become big things. Staines has his flaws I'm not saying we should go with Staines necessarily but we can't go with Naden. Maybe it'd be different if Nado played there from the start of the year and built some trust and belief in his centre and his himself but he just bites too easily.
 

Girds89

Bench
Messages
3,242
Naden will only be wing till brian is back. And we have 2nd/3rd locked up.

Cant see staines coming back. I think ivan will stick with critta on the wing and momo at centre.

If critta can bring the ball back on the wing like he did at fb last week, our back 3 will be very very dangerous.

Too, edwards and critta are all capable of busting teams open.

I know momo has his limitations at centre. But for the balance of the side it might be whats needed.

I cant see ivan throwing tiny in for the finals and brian has one wing locked up.

Only ways i see ivan going is

2. Nado
3. Critta

Or

2. Critta
3. Momo

Tend to think it will be the later as its safer defensivley. Staines confidence had looked down for a while. With no nsw cup to get it back, just cant see him being brought back up.
 
Messages
4,314
You mean every time you open your mouth. 🤣
.
Interesting fact that is generally overlooked when Russell Packer and Josh Reynolds joined W/T they were considered 'reasonable signing......(although W/T had to pay overs) because basically no one has wanted to go there since Sheens left

Reynolds had hamstring tear before round 1, finally made first appearance at round 6.
In round 6 suffered a shoulder fracture which eventually took him out for the rest of the season.
Cleary left at the end of 2018.
So an injury riddled 12 months that noone saw comming.

Packer was playing rep footy when he joined W/T in 2018. Yep he was paid overs....(for above reason)
Had a reasonable season in 2018 although the team generally struggled.

It's quite amusing how a narrative 'invents' itself in this case devoid of any real facts.
I have always had a soft spot for the tigers; some of my uncles went to Holy Cross and so are big fans of the Tigers for years, and I have other family who supported the Maggies; I hope they do well.

But the constant bleating about Ivan is holding them back, because it gives the club a built in excuse to be mediocre. And be mediocre it has been
Three things in particular;
- if you really don’t like Ivan’s signings, move them on. Be decisive. The Panthers would love to not be paying for players that now play for the Eels, the Dogs and (I suspect) the Bunnies, but it was part of the calculus of managing the cap. And WTs probably wouldn’t have had to pay so much to get rid of players if Madge had of found a way to help them improve their form. And that leads me onto my second point…
- everyone’s career goes backwards at the Tigers. With the exception of Doeuhi, it’s really hard to find a player at WTs that has improved this year. The best example was Laurie; he was electric for the first month and a bit of the season, but that was when he was new to the system. The more he got used to the Tigers structures and coaching, he went backwards noticeably.
- And it is probably best he didn’t have a breakthrough year, because as soon as a WTs player has a great year he knocks on management’s door either demanding a release or a pay-rise. Investing in youth with the hope of developing them (seemingly not Madge’s strength anyway) only works if you can keep them at reasonable cost when they show that improvement. WTs track record in that regard is not good.

I’ve wanted to get that off my chest for a while; for a club I have affection for their mismanagement frustrates me so much!! It’s like the Panthers 15 years ago…
 

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