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2023-2028 next tv deal discussion

Perth Red

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Messages
65,925
Thats what perth red said . Till today he said the same, their would be contra for the NRL but after pouring over the financial reports Perth red has NOT pointed to a figure, a link , press release regarding contra for the NRL>

The NRL's TOTAL Media related income for 2018 (the first year of this deal) was $318million. That includes the overseas TV rights and radio. There is a small % increase each year as per accounting standards, the total cash value of the TV deal will work out around $1.7bill. Digital brought in around $23mill.
The AFL's ACTUAL revenue from media for 2018 was $391.5million ( I thnk this includes digital revenue but it isnt specified, lets assume it does)
A difference of $50.5million. As reported in both organisations 2018 annual reports.

The gap in Yr 1 of the last deal (2013) media revenue: NRL $204mill - AFL $234.3mill. Difference $30.3mill

The gap has grown!

It's hard to fathom given the value of Origin, we have the most watched sport on pay TV by a ways and that we bring in around $20mil'ish a year in overseas rights that the AFL doesn't. We got truly stiffed in this TV deal again.

If you look at at overall revenue the gap has increased by about $14mill per year since 2013
$171mill total gap in 2018 is a sht load of money that the NRL is behind, imagine what we could do with that much every year!

2013 Overall revenue
NRL $303.3mill
AFL $459.5mill
Gap $156.2mill

2018 Overall revenue
NRL $496.8mill
AFL $668mill
Gap $171.2mill
 
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colly

Juniors
Messages
1,023
The NRL's TOTAL Media related income for 2018 (the first year of this deal) was $318million. That includes the overseas TV rights and radio. There is a small % increase each year as per accounting standards, the total cash value of the TV deal will work out around $1.7bill.
The AFL's ACTUAL revenue from media for 2018 was $391.5million.
A difference of $73.5million. As reported in both organisations 2018 annual reports.

The gap in Yr 1 of the last deal (2013) media revenue: NRL $204mill - AFL $234.3mill. Difference $30.3mill

The gap has more than doubled!

It's hard to fathom given the value of Origin, we have the most watched sport on pay TV by a ways and that we bring in around $20mil'ish a year in overseas rights that the AFL doesn't. We got truly stiffed in this TV deal again.

If you look at at overall revenue the gap remains has increased to about $14mill per year.
$171mill a sht load of money that the NRL is behind, imagine what we could do with that much every year!

2013 Overall revenue
NRL $303.3mill
AFL $459.5mill
Gap $156.2mill

2018 Overall revenue
NRL $496.8mill
AFL $668mill
Gap $171.2mill
First of all I was discussing the media deal as per the thread AND NOT general income. You put the Media (TV PAY TV streaming) at 1.7Billion, how so? 1.7 billion dived by 5 gets you 340 million why you put 318 in first year. Anyway your contracted value including OS and NZ is only 1.7 where many reports have it 1.8 billion excluding OS and NZ. In a link from NRL.com it clearly says 1.8 without NZ and overseas income.
https://www.nrl.com/news/2015/11/27/nrl-broadcast-rights-deal-announced/
Quote from above link.
Rugby League will reach more fans than ever before – both in Australia and globally – under a massive new NRL broadcast deal unveiled today.

The ARL Commission, Nine Network, News Corp Australia, FOX SPORTS, and Telstra have formed a partnership to provide free to air television, pay television and mobile coverage of Rugby League for five years from 2018.

The deal is worth $1.8 billion to the NRL – 70 per cent higher than the existing rights.

With the sale of international and radio rights to come, it is anticipated that the total value of the final package will exceed $1.9 billion. End of Quote I was only concerned about the Media deal and I have demonstrated that the NRL did get 1.9 billion and that is equal to the Afl media deal. And the next one the NRL will have a better deal.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,925
First of all I was discussing the media deal as per the thread AND NOT general income. You put the Media (TV PAY TV streaming) at 1.7Billion, how so? 1.7 billion dived by 5 gets you 340 million why you put 318 in first year. Anyway your contracted value including OS and NZ is only 1.7 where many reports have it 1.8 billion excluding OS and NZ. In a link from NRL.com it clearly says 1.8 without NZ and overseas income.
https://www.nrl.com/news/2015/11/27/nrl-broadcast-rights-deal-announced/
Quote from above link.
Rugby League will reach more fans than ever before – both in Australia and globally – under a massive new NRL broadcast deal unveiled today.

The ARL Commission, Nine Network, News Corp Australia, FOX SPORTS, and Telstra have formed a partnership to provide free to air television, pay television and mobile coverage of Rugby League for five years from 2018.

The deal is worth $1.8 billion to the NRL – 70 per cent higher than the existing rights.

With the sale of international and radio rights to come, it is anticipated that the total value of the final package will exceed $1.9 billion. End of Quote I was only concerned about the Media deal and I have demonstrated that the NRL did get 1.9 billion and that is equal to the Afl media deal. And the next one the NRL will have a better deal.

the figures I have quoted are actual revenue for 2018 as stated in the organisations Financial reports. There is no refuting them. Like I said there is a small % increase in revenue each year of the 5 year deal, hence why by end of year 5 total will be around the 1.7billion mark. The deal is not worth $1.8billion unless you include the $23mill a year contra and includes overseas. The nrl did not get $1.9bill cash unless year one has paid significantly less than years 2-5 but there is no reason that would be the case, or are you suggesting the nrl and their auditors are submitting false financial reports?

once again for the hard of hearing

2018 nrl tv and digital revenue $341mill
2018 afl tv and digital revenue $391.5mill
 
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colly

Juniors
Messages
1,023
Perth red said 2 posts back,
The NRL's TOTAL Media related income for 2018 (the first year of this deal) was $318million. That includes the overseas TV rights and radio. There is a small % increase each year as per accounting standards, the total cash value of the TV deal will work out around $1.7bill. Digital brought in around $23mill.

End of Quote.
$318 million dollars times 5 = $1,590 Billion dollars, which according to red has the (OS and NZ revenue included of say 100 million) so 1,590 minus 100 million gives us the total Fox,Nine Testra deal which would be at 1,490 billion. Bullshit. The NRL press release did not say the above three paid 1,490 media deal, no the NRL said 1.8 billion and with radio, NZ and OS deals it will be 1.9 billion which is equal (substantive) with the Afl.
Did the auditors lie? Well to tell the truth it would be not the first time audios have been prosecuted criminally for financial misdeeds. However i am not saying this. It is just the headline figure you quote has other transactions as part of the figure which you report. See these media reports. Sorry about pay wall.
Search Results
Web results
NRL urgently needs $30 million bank loan to pay clubs | Daily ...

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au › sport › nrl › news-story

Jun 19, 2017 - THE NRL has been forced to apply for a $30 million bank loan to pay for club funding agreements it could never afford. Chief executive Todd Greenberg not only needs approval from the banks but also broadcasters Channel 9 and Fox Sports, who will act as “guarantors”.

When companies act as guarantors they are legally responsible to pay. They will discharge the loan as it appears on 'their financial reports' which gives a lower performance rating, therefor the media payed the NRL it's contracted amount ' minus the total loan (payed out) which took it off their books. So 318 Millions dollars payed by the 'Media' to the NRL (2018) is arrived at, minus the loan of thirty million dollars. For those who have trouble seeing.
 
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tri_colours

Juniors
Messages
1,828
Perth red said 2 posts back,
The NRL's TOTAL Media related income for 2018 (the first year of this deal) was $318million. That includes the overseas TV rights and radio. There is a small % increase each year as per accounting standards, the total cash value of the TV deal will work out around $1.7bill. Digital brought in around $23mill.

End of Quote.
$318 million dollars times 5 = $1,590 Billion dollars, which according to red has the (OS and NZ revenue included of say 100 million) so 1,590 minus 100 million gives us the total Fox,Nine Testra deal which would be at 1,490 billion. Bullshit. The NRL press release did not say the above three paid 1,490 media deal, no the NRL said 1.8 billion and with radio, NZ and OS deals it will be 1.9 billion which is equal (substantive) with the Afl.
Did the auditors lie? Well to tell the truth it would be not the first time audios have been prosecuted criminally for financial misdeeds. However i am not saying this. It is just the headline figure you quote has other transactions as part of the figure which you report. See these media reports. Sorry about pay wall.
Search Results
Web results
NRL urgently needs $30 million bank loan to pay clubs | Daily ...

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au › sport › nrl › news-story

Jun 19, 2017 - THE NRL has been forced to apply for a $30 million bank loan to pay for club funding agreements it could never afford. Chief executive Todd Greenberg not only needs approval from the banks but also broadcasters Channel 9 and Fox Sports, who will act as “guarantors”.

When companies act as guarantors they are legally responsible to pay. They will discharge the loan as it appears on 'their financial reports' which gives a lower performance rating, therefor the media payed the NRL it's contracted amount ' minus the total loan (payed out) which took it off their books. So 318 Millions dollars payed by the 'Media' to the NRL (2018) is arrived at, minus the loan of thirty million dollars. For those who have trouble seeing.

I would say you have refuted them pretty well!
 

colly

Juniors
Messages
1,023
Perth red said 2 posts back,
The NRL's TOTAL Media related income for 2018 (the first year of this deal) was $318million. That includes the overseas TV rights and radio. There is a small % increase each year as per accounting standards, the total cash value of the TV deal will work out around $1.7bill. Digital brought in around $23mill.

End of Quote.
$318 million dollars times 5 = $1,590 Billion dollars, which according to red has the (OS and NZ revenue included of say 100 million) so 1,590 minus 100 million gives us the total Fox,Nine Testra deal which would be at 1,490 billion. Bullshit. The NRL press release did not say the above three paid 1,490 media deal, no the NRL said 1.8 billion and with radio, NZ and OS deals it will be 1.9 billion which is equal (substantive) with the Afl.
Did the auditors lie? Well to tell the truth it would be not the first time audios have been prosecuted criminally for financial misdeeds. However i am not saying this. It is just the headline figure you quote has other transactions as part of the figure which you report. See these media reports. Sorry about pay wall.
Search Results
Web results
NRL urgently needs $30 million bank loan to pay clubs | Daily ...

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au › sport › nrl › news-story

Jun 19, 2017 - THE NRL has been forced to apply for a $30 million bank loan to pay for club funding agreements it could never afford. Chief executive Todd Greenberg not only needs approval from the banks but also broadcasters Channel 9 and Fox Sports, who will act as “guarantors”.

When companies act as guarantors they are legally responsible to pay. They will discharge the loan as it appears on 'their financial reports' which gives a lower performance rating, therefor the media payed the NRL it's contracted amount ' minus the total loan (payed out) which took it off their books. So 318 Millions dollars payed by the 'Media' to the NRL (2018) is arrived at, minus the loan of thirty million dollars. For those who have trouble seeing.
Following on if (and I know you will) that 318 million 'plus' 30 milli0n loan does not get you 380 million yearly i state that NRL gets their was a 50 million advance which has to accounted for.
https://www.nospam25.net.au/forum/index.php?threads/nrl-applying-for-30-million-loan.106495/
Quote, form above/& tele
Phil Rothfield, The Daily Telegraph
June 17, 2017 9:00pm

THE NRL has been forced to apply for a $30 million bank loan to pay for club funding agreements it could never afford.

Chief executive Todd Greenberg not only needs approval from the banks but also broadcasters Channel 9 and Fox Sports, who will act as “guarantors”.

This is the second injection of cash the NRL has needed in 2017, having already received a $50 million advance from Fox Sports to ease its cashflow problems.

The need for the $30 million loan has risen from the independent commission caving in to the 16 clubs on funding deals from 2018 onwards.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,925
Yes the nrl got a $50mill advance in 2017, the $30mill was a loa from elsewhere and won’t effect the tv revenue line.

so $318x5 + 50 = $1.64bill. Now I’ll concede I don’t know what the accounting annual % increase is going to be as it just says “small” in the financials so that could bring it up if it is more than 1-2%

let’s wait and see, the next annual reports will give us another look which will be feb/mar time. For now the media generated revenue for 2018 was significantly lower than afl. End of.
 
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Messages
13,982
"RA sees it as a matter of due diligence to test market interest in rugby, not only with its current partner and free-to-air networks but also with OTT ("over-the-top") providers such as Optus, Amazon and Netflix.

A barrage of reports have cast the move as a fatal mis-step, and several broadcasting and rugby sources have suggested Foxtel boss Patrick Delany is close to refusing to deal with Castle.

The stand-off appears to have spooked RA directors and stakeholders, with Davis calling for a leadership overhaul."

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...ir-calls-for-ra-overhaul-20191209-p53i9l.html

union really making a meal of it at this stage. talk of bringing back john o'neill and other candidates scrambling for positions is not going to help imo. i don't recall shane mattiske being any great brains trust, i seem to recall john grant doing most of the heavy lifting. could be wrong?

interesting they think there is a chance with Optus, Amazon and Netflix, when that is largely thought of as implausible in these forums for NRL. could be a bluff.

suggestions that without an uplift franchises could go broke due to a reduction in home game allocations. certainly won't help the waratahs whilst SFS is still a hole in the ground as well. hard to see the super rugby portion receiving an uplift when ratings are so insignificant.

on the flipside, the supposed uplift may be seen in the test schedule which they seem to think is superior. it gets rounded out in 2025 with the lions tour, their last tour here in australia being 2013.

a total collapse of this competition wouldn't bother more than about 15 people.

Interesting article in today's Herald. Kim Williams may not be unbiased considering his background, but you cannot discount everything he has been quoted as saying in this article - https://www.smh.com.au/business/com...ense-of-self-entitlement-20191211-p53iyf.html
 

flippikat

Bench
Messages
4,465
THE NRL has been forced to apply for a $30 million bank loan to pay for club funding agreements it could never afford.

Chief executive Todd Greenberg not only needs approval from the banks but also broadcasters Channel 9 and Fox Sports, who will act as “guarantors”.

This is the second injection of cash the NRL has needed in 2017, having already received a $50 million advance from Fox Sports to ease its cashflow problems.

The need for the $30 million loan has risen from the independent commission caving in to the 16 clubs on funding deals from 2018 onwards.

If this is true, then the NRL needs to seriously reconsider the "we'll pay a grant big enough for EVERY club to thrive, no strings attached" policy.. Sydney remains oversaturated, interstate/NZ remains under-represented.

Something has to give.
 

colly

Juniors
Messages
1,023
Yes the nrl got a $50mill advance in 2017, the $30mill was a loa from elsewhere and won’t effect the tv revenue line.

so $318x5 + 50 = $1.64bill. Now I’ll concede I don’t know what the accounting annual % increase is going to be as it just says “small” in the financials so that could bring it up if it is more than 1-2%

let’s wait and see, the next annual reports will give us another look which will be feb/mar time. For now the media generated revenue for 2018 was significantly lower than afl. End of.

Let’s wait and see, the next annual reports will give us another look which will be feb/mar time. For now the media generated revenue for 2018 was significantly lower than afl. End of.[/QUOTE]


Well we will see when the annual reports come out next year, be sure to inform us.
I state that fox nine telstra deal 1.8 billion over five years. Annuallyjh that means 360 per year.
Plus Sky NZ radio and other deals like Invitation test last month, anyway 20 Million pa (100 total)
So thats 380 million per year. But the media was on the hook for 30 million so they subtracted that amount and closed the loan. 380 - 30 loan equals 350 million the media has to pay the NRL.
Fox advanced 50 million in 2017 so maybe now the bigger rights package has come through the NRL made a 32 million payment on the 50 advancement , which would leave 18 to pay in 2019/20. So these figures gets you your 318 million for this year. So we expect the 318 million will increase, as not as much has to be payed back either loans or advancement.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,925
Yep happy to revisit the discussion in March when we have the next instalment of the facts.

do you have any reference for the $30mill loan and which tv company has paid this out? There is nothing noted in the financial reports that mentions it.
 
Messages
11,402
Strap in sports fans, because the decade to come will bring about the biggest changes to the way we consume sport since the introduction of television itself.

If you cast your mind back to the start of this decade, you most likely had a big-screen TV and, as a sports lover, a Foxtel box underneath it. The television would have been analogue and the figures on the screen slightly grainy.

During the decade, many traded these TVs for a digital version and the difference in clarity was remarkable. With digital came the streaming services.

d3586020339938c8d5924409cf7238dcbd2cee3e

Changing viewing habits will have major ramifications for all sports.CREDIT:GETTY

The pivotal year was 2015: Netflix launched in Australia, Nine Entertainment introduced Stan and by the end of the decade, there was Apple TV, Amazon Prime, Optus (with the Premier League) ...
Channel Nine started the decade broadcasting its mainstays of NRL and cricket, and finished the decade with NRL and tennis. Seven had AFL and tennis, and finished with AFL and cricket.

Foxtel, via Fox Sports, had a few sports channels, but by 2019 had at least seven running at any one time, including Fox Footy, Fox League and Fox Cricket, plus ESPN 1 and 2, and Eurosport and Chelsea TV and on and on.

But, tellingly, Foxtel also now broadcasts almost all of this sport on a streaming service launched in 2018 called Kayo.

And that’s where we’re headed in the 2020s.

By the end of next decade, there will not be a Foxtel box in any house in Australia. Just like taxis were replaced by Uber and Kodak was monstered by digital phone cameras, television streaming will kill off the 25-year life of cable TV in this country.


Starting at the top, the next round of NRL and AFL television rights negotiations will bear little resemblance to those of the past, when they were fairly predictable. It ran like this: channels Nine and Seven were courted by the sports and, eventually, one of them cut a deal with Foxtel (Fox Sports) and the spoils were divvied up and away we went for another five or six years.

Foxtel won’t quite be in the same position in the future. Its revenue base is decreasing rapidly as it tries to hang on to overpaying subscribers against cheaper streaming competitors. Even its own Kayo service, at $25 a month, undercuts itself. A basic Foxtel subscription is now about $50, but was well over $100 during the decade, especially if you never made a phone call to them.

But without League and AFL, Fox Sports dies – and its bosses know it.

For free-to-air networks, the big sports are loss leaders: millions upon millions to buy the rights and the same to fund the actual broadcast. It can’t all be recouped by advertising. But it does bring eyeballs to the networks, which then hope they watch their news service and are convinced to watch MAFS or My Kitchen Rules via the endless promos.

The common belief is that even the big sports are in for a haircut this decade when they renegotiate their broadcast deals.

To stave off the haircut, all sports are cuddling up to all three commercial networks and Optus and Netflix and Amazon Prime and Apple TV and ...

Some may think the NRL, for instance, would be mad to broadcast its matches through Amazon Prime’s app.
This would be an extremely short-sighted view. Streaming apps could be big players. At $7.99 a month, an Amazon Prime subscription is nothing. By the end of next decade, I guarantee streaming services will have rights to big sports in this country because watching television through an app will be the norm.

Consumers won’t bat an eyelid. Teenagers now will be in their 20s by 2029 and their television brand loyalty will be non-existent.

I recently wanted to buy a golf club from the US. I found it on Amazon. They then said they would ship it to me for free if I trialled Amazon Prime. So I did.

The golf club arrived in three days from Kentucky and we, as a family, were watching Jack Ryan on Amazon through our Apple TV.

It’s happening and sports should not be afraid of change.
Expect an American-style sell-off where one network won’t have it all. Thursday night NRL could be on Amazon Prime, Friday on Channel Nine, Saturday on Kayo, Sunday afternoon on Channel Seven.


Second-tier sports, for want of a better phrase, are those most vulnerable: rugby union, the A-League, the NBL. The big players will offer them less, but maybe one of the newer players will present them with an opportunity they can’t resist.

Rugby finding itself being broadcast on Optus does not need to be as frightening as it seems.

Using streaming services doesn’t scare consumers – and it shouldn’t scare sports.
https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/sp...stream-becomes-a-torrent-20191219-p53lkb.html
 

axl rose

Bench
Messages
4,940
Strap in sports fans, because the decade to come will bring about the biggest changes to the way we consume sport since the introduction of television itself.
The irony of a journo talking about a dead medium in a bankrupt tabloid. But a decent article from Gutterfax for a change, and from a boomer of all people. Maybe some of them do know what year it is after all.

As for Netflix though they really don't need sport to drive subscriptions at the moment and that's not going to change for a long time. Maybe Disney+ will eat into their market and they will desperately reach out for live sports some day. Will be interesting to see what happens.
 
Messages
11,402
The irony of a journo talking about a dead medium in a bankrupt tabloid. But a decent article from Gutterfax for a change, and from a boomer of all people. Maybe some of them do know what year it is after all.

As for Netflix though they really don't need sport to drive subscriptions at the moment and that's not going to change for a long time. Maybe Disney+ will eat into their market and they will desperately reach out for live sports some day. Will be interesting to see what happens.
Gutterfax? I dont think so mate.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,925
Netflix are already the major market owner so yeh hard to see them going too hard for Australian sport until that is challenged. Wouldn't surprise me to see Fox continue to move more and more to digital and by end of decade have most of its subscribers on digital rather than cable/satellite. They still have by far the largest choice of channels and sports etc available so if they went fully digital for say $40-50 per month I could see them maintaining their position on a different platform. At the moment they are around double the cost of what you can get similar on 3-4 digital services.

When I get my new TV next year I'll be dumping Fox for Kayo ($25) , NFL game pass ($6), Netflix ($14) and Disney ($9) a plus Nord VPN ($4) to get BBC. Saving about $50 a month.

Fox will have to get with the times or risk going the way of the taxis.
 
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franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,546
There is too many streaming services. Something will give within a few years. Getting NRL ensures 200k subscribers for the majority of 5 years. Someone soon enough will take the punt
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,925
There is too many streaming services. Something will give within a few years. Getting NRL ensures 200k subscribers for the majority of 5 years. Someone soon enough will take the punt

there’s not much money in it though, 200k subscribers at $10 a month doesn’t pay big $’s to the NRL.
 
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