2023 - Oceania Tri-Nations (Pacific Championship)

[Clarkent]

Samoa, Tonga and even PNG are all at a similar position to where the Kiwis were in the early 2000s. At full strength they could match it with anyone, though they lacked any significant depth in key positions.

The islands have the added difficulty where the likes of Australia & New Zealand will try to pick their most inform players as well, further hurting their depth.

The only way that can be addressed is through building depth. From a participation perspective, there is no shortage of eligible players coming through the ranks, so it's then just about ensuring these sides keep getting regular internationals each year, even if there is the occasional thrashing.

The last thing we want to do is repeat the mistake the game made with Wales in the 90s of not giving the team regular fixtures and opportunities.

Even with the result against the Kiwis Samoa are in a good place and they're slowly start building until the next world cup. A lot of young players in the team, only 3 players that played the Kiwis were in the semi final squad.

In the halves Samoa has a few players to look forward to, to bring into the team. Luai, CHT, Schuster and Volkman. Suali'i is a huge loss but geez Faalogo is a even better replacement.
Tonga's spine is building too for the world cup and Katoa will be the leader of that team.
Kiwis tho reminded Samoa you've still got a long way to go lol

 

[jim_57]

Samoa, Tonga and even PNG are all at a similar position to where the Kiwis were in the early 2000s. At full strength they could match it with anyone, though they lacked any significant depth in key positions.

The islands have the added difficulty where the likes of Australia & New Zealand will try to pick their most inform players as well, further hurting their depth.

The only way that can be addressed is through building depth. From a participation perspective, there is no shortage of eligible players coming through the ranks, so it's then just about ensuring these sides keep getting regular internationals each year, even if there is the occasional thrashing.

The last thing we want to do is repeat the mistake the game made with Wales in the 90s of not giving the team regular fixtures and opportunities.

I’d put Fiji in there as well, their results have been impressive in World Cup years which are the only years they seem to be given any decent opportunities unfortunately.

Ideal scenario would be all 6 in the top tier at least once per World Cup cycle. Where that leaves England and to a lesser extent Cook Islands is the sticking point. If they kept a shorter 3 teams format and made it 2 pools instead of 2 tiers with a final then England, Lebanon and whoever else could play the bye teams.

A - Australia, Fiji, PNG
B - NZ, Tonga, Samoa

England could work a 4-6 game tour around that, play a warm up the week before it starts then one of the bye teams each week, maybe Lebanon on the weekend of the final then another game against Aus or NZ the week after the final of Aus/NZ are willing.

or

England could invite Lebanon over and try and get some buy-in from Ireland’s huge heritage player pool to have a decent Northern Hemisphere 4 Nations with England, Lebanon, France & Ireland/Wales.

 

[Iamback]

Even with the result against the Kiwis Samoa are in a good place and they're slowly start building until the next world cup. A lot of young players in the team, only 3 players that played the Kiwis were in the semi final squad.

In the halves Samoa has a few players to look forward to, to bring into the team. Luai, CHT, Schuster and Volkman. Suali'i is a huge loss but geez Faalogo is a even better replacement.
Tonga's spine is building too for the world cup and Katoa will be the leader of that team.
Kiwis tho reminded Samoa you've still got a long way to go lol

How many will still be playing for Samoa next year though?

That is the issue with these island teams

 

[Iamback]

Let’s be honest if it wasn’t for a 50-50 semi win last year the Samoans have actually done very little despite all the hype About how PI teams are growing. Been very disappointing this tournament,

awesome crowd though! Far louder and probably more numerous than kiwi fans.

As I banged on about the other week, They are unable to build

 

[Clarkent]

How many will still be playing for Samoa next year though?

That is the issue with these island teams

Most of the boys that were part of last years world cup are still posting online supporting the team and saying "stick with us samoa".
Also Luai posted this morning "MemoryBank" So he's definitely holding a grudge after that game lol.

You've also got to remember most of those Panthers boys weren't part of this team this year.
Hamlin-Uele has been full on supporting the team on social media too.

 

[Gobsmacked]

There's great things happening in international RL but few bigger than what's happening in NZ.
That was the best performance I've seen from them but when you look at that roster, it's easy to see why!
After a lot of notable unavailable players, you have to ask yourself how they even get in this team...where could you put RTS ?
Shaun Johnson? DWZ?
This side is primed to roll Australia 2 weeks in a row..

New world order.

 

[Iamback]

Most of the boys that were part of last years world cup are still posting online supporting the team and saying "stick with us samoa".
Also Luai posted this morning "MemoryBank" So he's definitely holding a grudge after that game lol.

You've also got to remember most of those Panthers boys weren't part of this team this year.
Hamlin-Uele has been full on supporting the team on social media too.

Arthurs, Lemulu Stefano are all NZ born. All improved across the past season.

Should they continue to develop, NZ will poach them.
Nu Brown going to England and with Smith and Marshall-King fit. He should be back with the side

Marshew is another one that is NZ born and had a good season.

So you are potentially looking at a handful that won't be there. Which puts the team back again

 

[Iamback]

There's great things happening in international RL but few bigger than what's happening in NZ.
That was the best performance I've seen from them but when you look at that roster, it's easy to see why!
After a lot of notable unavailable players, you have to ask yourself how they even get in this team...where could you put RTS ?
Shaun Johnson? DWZ?
This side is primed to roll Australia 2 weeks in a row..

New world order.

Made to many errors to trouble Australia but that starting middle is the best I have seen. Throw in NAS off the bench too

 

[Clarkent]

Arthurs, Lemulu Stefano are all NZ born. All improved across the past season.

Should they continue to develop, NZ will poach them.
Nu Brown going to England and with Smith and Marshall-King fit. He should be back with the side

Marshew is another one that is NZ born and had a good season.

So you are potentially looking at a handful that won't be there. Which puts the team back again

Stefano played Origin so he won't be in the Kiwis, Marzhew chose samoa over the Kiwis before team selections. Jesse Arthur's also turned down the Kiwis. Lemuelu has been with the samoan the 2 years he didn't play last year in the world cup tho.

You just named all of the players that would be back next year lol
Nu Brown won't definitely be back to Samoa, he's getting old and Gordon is a better replacement for samoa. I don't even think Brown will be back on the international scene again tbh

Also don't think this loss will change the fact some of those samoan boys will come back to Samoa

 

[Iamback]

Stefano played Origin so he won't be in the Kiwis, Marzhew chose samoa over the Kiwis before team selections. Jesse Arthur's also turned down the Kiwis. Lemuelu has been with the samoan the 2 years he didn't play last year in the world cup tho.

You just named all of the players that would be back next year lol
Nu Brown won't definitely be back to Samoa, he's getting old and Gordon is a better replacement for samoa. I don't even think Brown will be back on the international scene again tbh

Also don't think this loss will change the fact some of those samoan boys will come back to Samoa

There was a story when Arthars was loaned to the Warriors and he said his dream was to play test footy for them.

So will see. I have no issue them playing for their country of birth by the way but it makes it hard to develop depth for teams such as Samoa

 

[Clarkent]

There was a story when Arthars was loaned to the Warriors and he said his dream was to play test footy for them.

So will see. I have no issue them playing for their country of birth by the way but it makes it hard to develop depth for teams such as Samoa

The Samoan team last year was player driven, so they'll have to rely on that. But they also need a experienced team and it'll take time to develop. Tonga had a strong team because it was led by experienced players like Fifita and Lolo. Samoa has Luai, Critta and To'o leading the team for the next world cup and they're still relatively young. It'll take all those guys to keep the same boys around. Time will tell tho

 

[titoelcolombiano]

I’d put Fiji in there as well, their results have been impressive in World Cup years which are the only years they seem to be given any decent opportunities unfortunately.

Ideal scenario would be all 6 in the top tier at least once per World Cup cycle. Where that leaves England and to a lesser extent Cook Islands is the sticking point. If they kept a shorter 3 teams format and made it 2 pools instead of 2 tiers with a final then England, Lebanon and whoever else could play the bye teams.

A - Australia, Fiji, PNG
B - NZ, Tonga, Samoa

England could work a 4-6 game tour around that, play a warm up the week before it starts then one of the bye teams each week, maybe Lebanon on the weekend of the final then another game against Aus or NZ the week after the final of Aus/NZ are willing.

or

England could invite Lebanon over and try and get some buy-in from Ireland’s huge heritage player pool to have a decent Northern Hemisphere 4 Nations with England, Lebanon, France & Ireland/Wales.

Just bring back the 4 nations in non WC years.

Pacific championship is played between Tonga, Samoa, Fiji, PNG, winner is the 4th nation when the tournament is in the southern hemisphere and Euro Championship winners are the 4th nation when its in the northern hemisphere. We already figured it out in the 2010s and then abandoned it for no sane reason.

 

[Gobsmacked]

Just bring back the 4 nations in non WC years.

Pacific championship is played between Tonga, Samoa, Fiji, PNG, winner is the 4th nation when the tournament is in the southern hemisphere and Euro Championship winners are the 4th nation when its in the northern hemisphere. We already figured it out in the 2010s and then abandoned it for no sane reason.

10000%

 

[Last Week]

Just bring back the 4 nations in non WC years.

Pacific championship is played between Tonga, Samoa, Fiji, PNG, winner is the 4th nation when the tournament is in the southern hemisphere and Euro Championship winners are the 4th nation when its in the northern hemisphere. We already figured it out in the 2010s and then abandoned it for no sane reason.

It just makes too much sense. It works commercially, it exposes smaller nations to class opposition and every year is a fresh feel with the new team added to the tournament.

The only thing about it that would bite us is if the qualified team doesn't come last. Say, Samoa beat England and England come last in the 4Nations, why wouldn't Samoa take their place going forward?

The answer is obviously commercial viability as England would bring more to the table than Samoa, but as far as it being considered a credible tournament, that might be criticised by the public.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

It just makes too much sense. It works commercially, it exposes smaller nations to class opposition and every year is a fresh feel with the new team added to the tournament.

The only thing about it that would bite us is if the qualified team doesn't come last. Say, Samoa beat England and England come last in the 4Nations, why wouldn't Samoa take their place going forward?

The answer is obviously commercial viability as England would bring more to the table than Samoa, but as far as it being considered a credible tournament, that might be criticised by the public.

Id handle it this way. Add the following to the tournament rules...

Tournament consists of two Asia Pacific Nations, one European nation and a qualifier. So even if England come last all they'd need to do is beat France / Euro Champs in a mid season play off test to re qualify.

If England start consistently finishing 4th, it would be a sign for me that we were ready to expand to a 5 or 6 nations tournament

 

[Matua]

Should they continue to develop, NZ will poach them.

This is silly, we can't poach NZers.

 

[Matua]

23,269

Sheesh, did they double count everyone?

 

[Matua]

Stefano played Origin so he won't be in the Kiwis, Marzhew chose samoa over the Kiwis before team selections. Jesse Arthur's also turned down the Kiwis. Lemuelu has been with the samoan the 2 years he didn't play last year in the world cup tho.

You just named all of the players that would be back next year lol
Nu Brown won't definitely be back to Samoa, he's getting old and Gordon is a better replacement for samoa. I don't even think Brown will be back on the international scene again tbh

Also don't think this loss will change the fact some of those samoan boys will come back to Samoa

Did Arthurs turn down the Kiwis is that confirmed? I mean, isn't he half Pakeha, so I'd assume he'd have pretty strong NZ roots. Anyway, all good for him to play for Samoa, he's been in great form this year, and he likely would only have made NZ A.

I was watching Royce Hunt on the Sky Sport show with Adam Blair and they asked him why as a Maori he chose Samoa over NZ and he said simply because they asked first.

Which Samoans do you think are going to go to Samoa? I would have thought this year would have been the year to swap for the NZ Samoans in the team but they all looked pretty comfortable being NZers last night (well aside form Nelson, he was all over the show, singing the anthem loud, then hand on heart, then hand on his Samoan tattoo - are they called Pe'a? Excuse my ignorance - or maybe he's got ta moko in there as well). Hope it's not Moses, he'd be the one I'd be most gutted about.

Nu Brown has benefited from our hooking crisis, and after reading a few articles/interviews about/with him I don't begrudge him, he's pretty proud to be both a NZer (well a Cantab which is close enough ) and a Samoan, so good way for him to finish of his international career.

Also, I enjoyed the haka v siva tau off, lot of passion and good that no punches were thrown.

 

[Iamback]

This is silly, we can't poach NZers.

I know. I was a dig at an earlier poster who stated Aus and NZ poach players from the islands.

Not that some players decide to play a few tests for their heritage before switching

 

[Iamback]

Did Arthurs turn down the Kiwis is that confirmed? I mean, isn't he half Pakeha, so I'd assume he'd have pretty strong NZ roots. Anyway, all good for him to play for Samoa, he's been in great form this year, and he likely would only have made NZ A.

I was watching Royce Hunt on the Sky Sport show with Adam Blair and they asked him why as a Maori he chose Samoa over NZ and he said simply because they asked first.

Which Samoans do you think are going to go to Samoa? I would have thought this year would have been the year to swap for the NZ Samoans in the team but they all looked pretty comfortable being NZers last night (well aside form Nelson, he was all over the show, singing the anthem loud, then hand on heart, then hand on his Samoan tattoo - are they called Pe'a? Excuse my ignorance - or maybe he's got ta moko in there as well). Hope it's not Moses, he'd be the one I'd be most gutted about.

Nu Brown has benefited from our hooking crisis, and after reading a few articles/interviews about/with him I don't begrudge him, he's pretty proud to be both a NZer (well a Cantab which is close enough ) and a Samoan, so good way for him to finish of his international career.

Also, I enjoyed the haka v siva tau off, lot of passion and good that no punches were thrown.

Hunt's response goes with Tualagi's.

He didn't hear from Mal so switched

Which is my problem with the rules as they stand