25 Teams. 5 Divisions.

[Canard]

A NRL full of second rate Union athletes.

Wow, what a vision!!

 

[Colk]

I don’t believe in this theory. Between elite rugby union programmes the world over, rugby sevens and British RL, there is ample, predominantly untapped talent to attract to the NRL. It just hasn’t needed to at this stage.

This week is the counterargument. It’s been absolutely the highest of s*** this weekend.

Another thing which I said in an earlier post is the competition is super predictable atm and has been for a long time. I can guess that the competition winners are going to come from either Penrith, Roosters or the Storm. Heck the Roosters and the Storm have probably been amongst the heavy favourites for the past 20 years straight. Maybe the Broncos might be in it as an outsider. Unless you have something alternate to the current system like a draft you are going to have the same teams winning every year which eventually will see people tune out (a lack of tension kills any sporting competition). Adding more teams isn’t going to help that, you are just adding more teams to the bottom.

 

[Santino Patane]

This ^^^^^

Unless..... the clubs don't see a competitive value in pursuing it, they don't bother trying, look at Canberra Raiders they've always had hardships trying to attract talent to their club, back in the 80s the QLders then NZers and a decade later the UK.
The club was pushed to think outside the box and pursue other avenues to acquire talent,
That is until "Penrith" ... wait what!!!
...Wow we can develop our own elite Players...
Or just buy them off the rack at mulgoa rd end of premiership year sale...
Clubs are now realising the value in local talent, but that takes a decade to build proper pathways, thus needing talent from elsewhere to bolster in the meantime.

Put more teams in!, make them desperate enough to search for talent, in the meantime teams will starve and do what richy richos doing , canvasing the ESL

100% on the money here mate. Listening to Phil Gould’s Podcast this week he mentioned it takes 2-3 rounds of developing juniors in your system to get to the high performance piece. If anyone’s gonna know it would be him. Remember all the shit he used to get about his 5 year plan? No one talks it anymore as your Penny Panthers now own the comp. I’m just hoping the foundations started in 2019 for the Titans pay some dividends soon, we definitely have some top shelf juniors here….

 

[MugaB]

100% on the money here mate. Listening to Phil Gould’s Podcast this week he mentioned it takes 2-3 rounds of developing juniors in your system to get to the high performance piece. If anyone’s gonna know it would be him. Remember all the shit he used to get about his 5 year plan? No one talks it anymore as your Penny Panthers now own the comp. I’m just hoping the foundations started in 2019 for the Titans pay some dividends soon, we definitely have some top shelf juniors here….

Yes you do, it's just about now sticking alongside des, to make sure he is there when they debut, so they can win well, Titans have been really poor in defence the past few years, des has got them pulling in the same direction now... good times coming soon Giants-Titans fans

 

[MugaB]

This week is the counterargument. It’s been absolutely the highest of s*** this weekend.

Another thing which I said in an earlier post is the competition is super predictable atm and has been for a long time. I can guess that the competition winners are going to come from either Penrith, Roosters or the Storm. Heck the Roosters and the Storm have probably been amongst the heavy favourites for the past 20 years straight. Maybe the Broncos might be in it as an outsider. Unless you have something alternate to the current system like a draft you are going to have the same teams winning every year which eventually will see people tune out (a lack of tension kills any sporting competition). Adding more teams isn’t going to help that, you are just adding more teams to the bottom.

That's not because of lack of talent, moreso that clubs that have major injuries and are also bad at recruiting, Parramatta last night is perfect example

 

[Colk]

That's not because of lack of talent, moreso that clubs that have major injuries and are also bad at recruiting, Parramatta last night is perfect example

I think it has plenty to do with division of talent. The competition has become way more skewed - in the last twenty years we have had probably two dominant clubs in the Roosters and Storm with Penrith and Manly having a good period. That surely is an anomaly.

To me this is proof that the salary cap doesn’t work in isolation and that you need to come up with something better. Drafts (although people hate it on here) have done the job in other competitions. Even baseball which doesn’t have a strict salary cap but operates on just a draft has seen more different winners over the past 20 years than league.

 

[MugaB]

I think it has plenty to do with division of talent. The competition has become way more skewed - in the last twenty years we have had probably two dominant clubs in the Roosters and Storm with Penrith and Manly having a good period. That surely is an anomaly.

To me this is proof that the salary cap doesn’t work in isolation and that you need to come up with something better. Drafts (although people hate it on here) have done the job in other competitions. Even baseball which doesn’t have a strict salary cap but operates on just a draft has seen more different winners over the past 20 years than league.

I don't disagree regarding the skewing of the salary cap, but a draft wont fix the issue, some clubs are just shit at recruiting, or roster management, or keeping the stars they develop, some clubs are really good at luring that talent, and some at development of their locals or younger poached talent, again a draft won't fix that coz if they don't fit the panther mould or storm mould they'll get moved onto a dragons or tigers who will always buy them etc.. more teams creates more 1st graders, there will always be bottom feeders on the ladder no matter how close the matches become...
The best team this weekend got whipped by the panthers, in fact so did bronx, dolphins and storm
You can't say it's just about lack of talent and that certain clubs attain it to the detriment of the rest, not when they get beaten, warriors going off their roster should not have one the last two weeks.. explain that how did they manage to beat Penrith and Dolphins

 

[SpaceMonkey]

The Warriors just won consecutive games against top 4 opposition with basically reserve grade sides- which indicates to me that it’s less about depth than coaching. The club is only a couple of years into a serious Penrith style development programme too.

 

[Pippen94]

I think it has plenty to do with division of talent. The competition has become way more skewed - in the last twenty years we have had probably two dominant clubs in the Roosters and Storm with Penrith and Manly having a good period. That surely is an anomaly.

To me this is proof that the salary cap doesn’t work in isolation and that you need to come up with something better. Drafts (although people hate it on here) have done the job in other competitions. Even baseball which doesn’t have a strict salary cap but operates on just a draft has seen more different winners over the past 20 years than league.

Who cares?!

 

[The Great Dane]

The geographical distribution and spread of sides in the NRL would make conferences basically impossible to balance. Unless you can find a way to address that problem (i.e. relocate a bunch of Sydney sides or expand unsustainably) a conference system will destroy the integrity of the competition.

In this example the Southern Division and Pacific Division would pretty quickly become also ran conferences full of spares, where the circumstances of their conferences would make it so much harder to succeed both on and off the field that simply fielding a competitive side for an extended period would be something of a feat.

The NRL does need to come up with a new way to structure the competition if it wants to keep expanding though, but the best way to go about that is an open question. The only proven system that I know of that could feasibly work for the NRL given it's circumstances is a licensed P&R system like the J-league for example, but that system would have it's own issues here as well, the fact that every stakeholder in the sport would revolt at it's mere suggestion being chief amongst those problems.

 

[The Great Dane]

Who cares?!

People who value fair competition and would ideally prefer if their sports were as competitive as possible instead of constant mismatches and foregone conclusions.

In other words just about everybody on the planet.

 

[The Great Dane]

I don't disagree regarding the skewing of the salary cap, but a draft wont fix the issue, some clubs are just shit at recruiting, or roster management, or keeping the stars they develop, some clubs are really good at luring that talent, and some at development of their locals or younger poached talent, again a draft won't fix that coz if they don't fit the panther mould or storm mould they'll get moved onto a dragons or tigers who will always buy them etc.. more teams creates more 1st graders, there will always be bottom feeders on the ladder no matter how close the matches become...
The best team this weekend got whipped by the panthers, in fact so did bronx, dolphins and storm
You can't say it's just about lack of talent and that certain clubs attain it to the detriment of the rest, not when they get beaten, warriors going off their roster should not have one the last two weeks.. explain that how did they manage to beat Penrith and Dolphins

Though that's true, it's also true that irrespective of how good they are at capitalising on it individually, certain clubs have massive advantages within the players market and salary cap and the NRL has generally done nothing to address those inequalities.

Traditionally there're two ways that leagues address those issues; A. an independent talent development system with a draft (American major league system), or B. get rid of the salary cap and allow the sport to become a game of the survival of the richest (traditional football pyramids).

 

[Pippen94]

People who value fair competition and would ideally prefer if their sports were as competitive as possible instead of constant mismatches and foregone conclusions.

In other words just about everybody on the planet.

Wrong. They want to see their team win

 

[Pippen94]

The geographical distribution and spread of sides in the NRL would make conferences basically impossible to balance. Unless you can find a way to address that problem (i.e. relocate a bunch of Sydney sides or expand unsustainably) a conference system will destroy the integrity of the competition.

In this example the Southern Division and Pacific Division would pretty quickly become also ran conferences full of spares, where the circumstances of their conferences would make it so much harder to succeed both on and off the field that simply fielding a competitive side for an extended period would be something of a feat.

The NRL does need to come up with a new way to structure the competition if it wants to keep expanding though, but the best way to go about that is an open question. The only proven system that I know of that could feasibly work for the NRL given it's circumstances is a licensed P&R system like the J-league for example, but that system would have it's own issues here as well, the fact that every stakeholder in the sport would revolt at it's mere suggestion being chief amongst those problems.

Research how superleague turned out & then rethink your views..

 

[The Great Dane]

Wrong. They want to see their team win

Yes exactly.

Now, what happens to teams on average if the rules of the competition are so weighted against them that that becomes effectively impossible?

Research how superleague turned out & then rethink your views..

Nah I'm good, I know enough already to know that it's totally irrelevant and that you're just chucking it out there because you're not familiar with the example I brought up and don't really understand the discussion, but feel the need to disagree all the same.

Feel free to take your own advice and inform yourself on the J-league structure if you like though.

 

[mongoose]

This week is the counterargument. It’s been absolutely the highest of s*** this weekend.

Another thing which I said in an earlier post is the competition is super predictable atm and has been for a long time. I can guess that the competition winners are going to come from either Penrith, Roosters or the Storm. Heck the Roosters and the Storm have probably been amongst the heavy favourites for the past 20 years straight. Maybe the Broncos might be in it as an outsider. Unless you have something alternate to the current system like a draft you are going to have the same teams winning every year which eventually will see people tune out (a lack of tension kills any sporting competition). Adding more teams isn’t going to help that, you are just adding more teams to the bottom.

The Storm and Roosters dominance is hurting the sport. I think the Panthers success goes against your arguments about the unfairness of the comp though. They have built their team from mostly local juniors and didn't really buy any marquees. The only major purchases I can think of were James Maloney, Tamou and Api. Maloney left years before their premierships, Tamou's career was already on a down trend by the time he went to Penrith and Api wasn't in the top rung of hookers when he went there.

The Storm and Roosters might just be a case of being much better run and professional than the rest of the comp.

 

[Pippen94]

Yes exactly.

Now, what happens to teams on average if the rules of the competition are so weighted against them that that becomes effectively impossible?

Nah I'm good, I know enough already to know that it's totally irrelevant and that you're just chucking it out there because you're not familiar with the example I brought up and don't really understand the discussion, but feel the need to disagree all the same.

Feel free to take your own advice and inform yourself on the J-league structure if you like though.

Yeah, the j-league where most of the teams come from one city..

 

[MugaB]

Though that's true, it's also true that irrespective of how good they are at capitalising on it individually, certain clubs have massive advantages within the players market and salary cap and the NRL has generally done nothing to address those inequalities.

Traditionally there're two ways that leagues address those issues; A. an independent talent development system with a draft (American major league system), or B. get rid of the salary cap and allow the sport to become a game of the survival of the richest (traditional football pyramids).

I don't mind B. at all, as in the Darwinism, but what's great about our game is that even though we see certain teams remain at the bottom, we celebrate them coming back up after their struggle ala the Bulldogs this season, or the warriors last season..

If the salary cap wasn't in effect, then we'd look similar to the ESL, where only the same 4 teams win every year, whilst the bottom teams disintegrate, what we have is a happy medium, the clubs that don't have the "advantages" like inner city life aka roosters, broncos, etc, are focusing solely on inner development, as in not relying on other clubs to provide them with market marquees, this is a good thing coz all clubs should be doing this, not the pooled draft you outlined..

it means they get a self contained advantage like what happens in Penrith now.. its the advantage they have over thier rivals, its why they remain dominant, until the next club has its similar style setup comes along and can challenge that team...

at the moment there's way too much player swapping at a market level, so no cohesion at junior level to bring up to 1st grade level, broncos for an example have 6 feeder clubs, they need to filter that into one before the broncos to be any good, yes they made GF last year, but imagine that was sustainable team, it's not they are busted at the moment