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2nd Test: Australia v West Indies at Melbourne on Dec 26-30, 2015

Ibleedblue

Juniors
Messages
530
West Indies either need to fix their shit with these guys refusing to play test cricket or be relegated to minnow status for the longer version of the game, it's a joke how bad they are at test cricket, you need to take 20 wickets to win a game, they'll be going well to take 10

Look at the players in the big bash right now, Bravo, Russell, Sammy, Badree.. I am sure there are more too, if they're not hurting watching their national team getting absolutely murdered then they shouldn't be playing cricket

I can't even imagine if someone like David Warner said to CA "oh I would much rather play T20 cricket", which is basically what Chris Gayle has done, like for like example

You must remember that these island nations that form the WI are third world countries and the great majority of the WI players probably grew up with no money at all. Test players in the WI are paid peanuts but if they play T20 they get rich contracts in the IPL and Big Bash and be seen as kings. If you have a lot of money in a place like the West Indies you are a hero.

Here in Australia we don't have problems like that and never will
 

ANTiLAG

First Grade
Messages
8,014
You must remember that these island nations that form the WI are third world countries and the great majority of the WI players probably grew up with no money at all. Test players in the WI are paid peanuts but if they play T20 they get rich contracts in the IPL and Big Bash and be seen as kings. If you have a lot of money in a place like the West Indies you are a hero.

Here in Australia we don't have problems like that and never will

Oh if you have money anywhere, there is a hero element - Rockefeller, Carnegie,Warren Buffet, Bill Gates etc.

But yeah, Cricket Australia can pay David Warner say 2 million a year - plus his IPL deal and endorsements. If he stops being rude to Indian cricketers and continues to blitz the IPL then he'll collect some of those in India too. Australia tour England as the "second test tour" after a shorter test tour to warm the Poms up, so the IPL is pretty much complete by the time he is on Ashes call up. So Davey gets all his IPL dollars pending a late Windies tour.

West Indies either need to fix their shit with these guys refusing to play test cricket or be relegated to minnow status for the longer version of the game, it's a joke how bad they are at test cricket, you need to take 20 wickets to win a game, they'll be going well to take 10

Look at the players in the big bash right now, Bravo, Russell, Sammy, Badree.. I am sure there are more too, if they're not hurting watching their national team getting absolutely murdered then they shouldn't be playing cricket

I can't even imagine if someone like David Warner said to CA "oh I would much rather play T20 cricket", which is basically what Chris Gayle has done, like for like example

Really, because Adam Gilchrist, Andrew Symonds, Mike Hussey, Ricky Ponting, Brett Lee and many other players have retired from international and played T20. Maybe you think Gayle is younger.

Either way, you need to think about Professional Cricketers playing cricket as a job, and a national employer I guess could be likened to working a government job, and T20 could be likened to the private sector. Payment for the job is a factor in choosing employment. So are the hours, physical stress and enjoyment of the job.

Further, Bravo did well on one tour to Australia in test cricket. I doubt he would improve the team. He has a test bowling average of 40, and a batting average of 30. Thats not good for an allrounder. Not good at all.

Sammy is no good as a test player. He bowls too slow to get wickets and averages 36. Economical, but no wickets.

Russell is not really a test bowler in my view, but he does have a good FC record. However, he has played 17 FC over 8 years. He does not want the bowling workload. His body does not like it - and he wouldn't be bowling at 140 like he does for 4 overs, if he had to bowl 20. That is why he has played one test. A total failure at that.

Badree has not played a FC since 2009. He averages 37.5 with the ball. He is another leg spinner joining the growing list of Brad Hogg, Imran Tahir, Ish Sodhi etc who is an average red ball bowler who struggles for wickets but bowls economically in the pyjama clothing game which is probably due to batsmen being concerned about googlies, and an in and out defensive field keeping the economy rate down and not worried about wickets.

Gayle has a bad back. But even if he was fit, what right does any man have to say to him to not play for big money but to play for small money for yours and their entertainment in test cricket? He does not want to be in the West Indies or in England when the IPL is being played. He wants all his IPL match fees. And he can continue past 40 in T20, and not exhaust and injure himself and break his back playing test cricket. What you rather have, $200,000 for being the best West Indian player playing all the tests, ODI's and T20I's, all those days on tour, or the 5 or 6 T20 tournaments for 2 million, maybe more dollars a year. Which would you choose? He has achieved a lot in test cricket already, 2 tripples - so work far less in T20, for far less of the year, for far more money in the millions or work harder and longer for far less money but make Australians happier with their boxing day test opposition and earn a tenth or less than T20. Might even win more games and accolades playing the T20 in a team with good bowlers in their sides and better batsmen to bat with.

He can just sing and dance in the T20 carnival and get rich. And good on him. He is the best T20 batsman around. He has specialized and chosen his career path. He has the right to choose his employers.

NZ has just lost BMac to the T20 circuit. He has his massive IPL deal - a 3 year BBL deal (first year of which is now), just announced a new NatWest Blast deal, he will be in the BPL and CLT20, probably the PSL. Earns him far more than his $200K New Zealand contract.

NZC had to let IPL players Anderson, Boult, BMac and others join the England tour after the warmup tour games, so that they would make themselves available for the tests without a show down with NZC. Their IPL deals are worth far more than NZC can pay them. They missed the IPL finish but got 2 or 3 more weeks of IPL wages.

The T20 dollar is going to impact on all nations outside England, Australia, and India drastically because only those 3 countries can and does pay its players above the IPL salary level - but even England and Australia nations will lose the experienced domestic players staying around to teach their skills. The likes of KP, Watto and Hodge will join the T20 circus when no longer wanted at international level and losing those 700,000 pound and over a million dollar Australian central contracts.
 
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blaza88z

Coach
Messages
15,187
T20 is ruining Test Cricket, West Indies were once a powerhouse, feared by all, now they would struggle to beat a PM's XI with this squad and whilst the names above don't stand out as having an exceptional record it sets a terrible precedent going forward for any players emerging, why represent your country when you can slog a ball for 20 overs max or bust it and rip out 4 amazing overs and get paid ridiculous amounts of money while the national team continues to be the most under-performed test playing nation. They almost don't deserve to be able to tour against us. I have Sri Lanka above them in regards to who would provide a bigger challenge.

McCullum has earned the right to play for whoever he wants, he's done so much for NZ cricket, he's getting towards the back end of his career and with the way NZ cricket is going right now he's not irreplacable.

Also all those Australian players you listed only made themselves available for T20 cricket over playing for Australia once they had retired or were simply dropped from the team. That's the complete opposite in regards to the current state of West Indian cricket. I feel the ICC needs to step in, it is going to get worse.
 

ANTiLAG

First Grade
Messages
8,014
T20 is ruining Test Cricket, West Indies were once a powerhouse, feared by all, now they would struggle to beat a PM's XI with this squad and whilst the names above don't stand out as having an exceptional record it sets a terrible precedent going forward for any players emerging, why represent your country when you can slog a ball for 20 overs max or bust it and rip out 4 amazing overs and get paid ridiculous amounts of money while the national team continues to be the most under-performed test playing nation. They almost don't deserve to be able to tour against us. I have Sri Lanka above them in regards to who would provide a bigger challenge.

McCullum has earned the right to play for whoever he wants, he's done so much for NZ cricket, he's getting towards the back end of his career and with the way NZ cricket is going right now he's not irreplacable.

Also all those Australian players you listed only made themselves available for T20 cricket over playing for Australia once they had retired or were simply dropped from the team. That's the complete opposite in regards to the current state of West Indian cricket. I feel the ICC needs to step in, it is going to get worse.

I love your "earned the right to play" - that is quite funny if you know McCullumisms ("earn the right to be aggressive"). But I disagree. A new player, like Boult or Williamson also has the right given to them by being citizens in a free country to play for whoever they want. That right is given by freedom, not by paying dues to the national team (who will drop a player whenever).

A commentator said today in ODIs BMac is irreplacable - I don't necessarily agree because there are good players floating around - but they are unpopular with the selectors for varying reasons (Munro and Ryder) where the slow scoring favourites are the teacher's pet (Latham). But BMac is 34, and is leaving for the money. He can scrape out 5 years of big time t20 earning not playing much with regard inury and not away from his family touring. Where does he sign up?

There will be some players like A Cook and M Clarke who will never be good at T20. So that keeps test cricket running. And some players want to play it. T20 won't ruin test cricket any time soon as long as players want to play it, and people want to watch it on tv, it will just take away its stars sooner - especially from nations outside the big 3. 20 or 50 years down the track - it may be different. May be 3 day or 4 day tests and more time off for players to play T20.

Southern hemisphere rugby union has been under siege from Japan and Norther Europe rugby clubs for a long time now. And its not relenting any time soon. The southern unions have evolved strategies. NZ banned Europe players, Australia has the Giteau rule, and SA has given up and said all its players can leave be selected. NZ's favorite strategem has been to advise players to stay a little longer to excel at a world cup and make their Northern exit far more valuable. And they gave Japan a super rugby team starting next year. A Southern Hemisphere 5 nations soon?

But look at Soccer (UK and Europe) and the NBA (USA) for basketball - if there is a centralised wealthy market of numerous fans that wants the best in a sport, and will pay for them, then they will get them. One way or another. From all over the world. And its easier when the funding is reduced to the less wealthy market which the ICC as the big 3 has done with increased distribution of ICC funds to India. And those club competitions becomes something special - globally. The EPL, the Champions League, the NBA, people may not even follow their domestic comp but follow those leagues. I know I follow the NBA finals more than I follow the Breakers.

Wait for the BCCI and IPL expansion - maybe another tournament but for 50 over cricket. Or a Kerry Packer type rebel league in India taking on the BCCI, like the ICL but richer. Its all just evolution. But it keeps cricket alive and well.
 
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El Diablo

Post Whore
Messages
94,107
West Indies either need to fix their shit with these guys refusing to play test cricket or be relegated to minnow status for the longer version of the game, it's a joke how bad they are at test cricket, you need to take 20 wickets to win a game, they'll be going well to take 10

Look at the players in the big bash right now, Bravo, Russell, Sammy, Badree.. I am sure there are more too, if they're not hurting watching their national team getting absolutely murdered then they shouldn't be playing cricket

I can't even imagine if someone like David Warner said to CA "oh I would much rather play T20 cricket", which is basically what Chris Gayle has done, like for like example

CA should just ban touring nations players from the Big Bash
 

Iafeta

Referee
Messages
24,357
What a snorefest this series is. Typically intellectual Australian decision by CA to play the Windies on Boxing Day.
 

JJ

Immortal
Messages
32,714
yet you whinge that none are playing tests

moron

Don't believe I have - I'd said the good Bravo is in the test team - Gayle is past it, and the rest are mediocre all rounders, at best room for 1 in the test team, but Holder is better

Good work genius
 

Twizzle

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
153,655
Selector's decision justified with Burns and Oozie, and good to see Burns has changed his grip on the bat and playing much straighter now, driving straighter as well.

I hope Smith can hang around till we declare he has been missing those big scores recently.
 

Pete Cash

Post Whore
Messages
62,165
He got a century like three matches ago.

I can't blame the windies players for chasing cash. It's very easy for Australian cricket fans to think that test cricket is important. Australian cricketers are paid very well to play test cricket. The west Indian cricketers less so. Australia's highest paid athletes outside of guys playing serious money sports like basketball are all cricketers. Michael Clarke used to make more than an entire nrl teams salary cap for example. David Warner now would be clearing 5 million a year now at a minimum. Mitch Starc would be in the same area because he is so good at short form cricket (statistically one of the best ever)

Gayle has played a lot of tests for the windies. The bloke should cash in if the windies can't pay him an adequate wage. Especially as the west Indies is not really a country so he has questionable loyalty to it.
 

Gina Minehart

Juniors
Messages
1,352
He got a century like three matches ago.

I can't blame the windies players for chasing cash. It's very easy for Australian cricket fans to think that test cricket is important. Australian cricketers are paid very well to play test cricket. The west Indian cricketers less so. Australia's highest paid athletes outside of guys playing serious money sports like basketball are all cricketers. Michael Clarke used to make more than an entire nrl teams salary cap for example. David Warner now would be clearing 5 million a year now at a minimum. Mitch Starc would be in the same area because he is so good at short form cricket (statistically one of the best ever)

Gayle has played a lot of tests for the windies. The bloke should cash in if the windies can't pay him an adequate wage. Especially as the west Indies is not really a country so he has questionable loyalty to it.

It's not a country. Did you hear the notional anthem yesterday? hehe
 

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