2nd Test: New Zealand v West Indies at Napier, Dec 19-23 2008

[Beavers Headgear]

Fair enough Iafeta, i can see your reasoning, although i still don't entirely agree with it 100%. It just seems lately every time i read through a topic in here, Vettori is getting flogged in it

In recent years, i have been pretty happy with what he has offered to the side, and i felt that when he and Bond were able to work together they were hugely effective

As for the last time he ran through a side, 6/55 last week against the West Indies was a fair effort. His bowling has set up plenty of tests for us imo, he and the rest of the side just haven;t finished those off. The 1 that springs to mind the most was against Aussie at Eden Park where he took 12-13 wickets

 

[attila_the_gorilla]

In test cricket, I think strike rate is even more important than the average. A good strike rate allows your batsmen to have enough time to win matches.

Vettori`s career strike rate is 75, ie. he takes a wicket every 12.5 overs. If our other bowlers had the same rate, it would take 4 sessions to bowl out a team, on average. That`s 8 sessions/2 innings. You can`t let your opponent bat for 8 sessions out of a maximum of 15 if you wanna win test matches.

Just for reference, Chris Cairns had a career strike rate of 53.

Murali 54, Warne 57 (but of course these two had very low averages too, just demonstrating that you don`t need to be very expensive to have a good strike rate).

Vettori is a defensive type bowler, more suited to one day cricket.

 

[JJ]

Fair enough Iafeta, i can see your reasoning, although i still don't entirely agree with it 100%. It just seems lately every time i read through a topic in here, Vettori is getting flogged in it

In recent years, i have been pretty happy with what he has offered to the side, and i felt that when he and Bond were able to work together they were hugely effective

The problem I have is every time I listen to a commentator, or pick up the Herald there is an article about what an outstanding test bowler Vettori is.... when in fact there is no evidence to support that at all.

Of course he and Bond went well together - he's hard to score off... Bond was the best fast bowler in the world... Nathan Astle would have worked well in tandem with Bond too

 

[Beavers Headgear]

This year Vettori has 50+ test wickets, so a glowing appraisal of his bowling is fair enough at the moment.

JJ, I have the opposite problem to you i suppose, every time i read an article or turn on the radio, it is constant bagging of every player, 1-11, non stop. I wonder why people bother if they get such little enjoyment from it at time

 

[JB]

This year Vettori has 50+ test wickets, so a glowing appraisal of his bowling is fair enough at the moment.

JJ, I have the opposite problem to you i suppose, every time i read an article or turn on the radio, it is constant bagging of every player, 1-11, non stop. I wonder why people bother if they get such little enjoyment from it at time

I'm on the same page as you BH. Sure, he's not in the same league as a Warne or Murali, and it would be nice if he could carve it up a bit more come the 4th innings of a test. But he's a quality player who's had a great year. I think we're lucky to have him.

 

[Iafeta]

But is that opinion on being lucky to have him on the basis that we have no one else or that he's a match winning bowler? I think it's the latter.

Vettori is a defensive spinner who'd fit well in the Australian team right now (can bat well, can bowl tidily and would I think make Lee and co a more attacking proposition from the other end than Hauritz or Krezja could) but sadly in the current New Zealand set up we need someone who can rip wickets out. We don't have it and Vettori's record and reputation suffers because of it. Lovely flight bowler, but needs to use bounce and spin more effectively.

 

[attila_the_gorilla]

It`s a myth that you need to have a containing bowler while your strike bowler takes wickets from the other end. A good test bowler takes wickets against conservative batsmen.

Every single specialist test bowler needs to be a strike bowler.

 

[edabomb]

This year Vettori has 50+ test wickets, so a glowing appraisal of his bowling is fair enough at the moment.

JJ, I have the opposite problem to you i suppose, every time i read an article or turn on the radio, it is constant bagging of every player, 1-11, non stop. I wonder why people bother if they get such little enjoyment from it at time

If you look at his stats for the year I think the 4 tests we played against Bangas have played a massive part in his great year.

 

[Iafeta]

It was reasonable still even discarding the Bangladeshis. Excluding Bangladesh he picked up 34 wickets at 32.97 per wicket.

Including Bangladesh he picked up 54 wickets at 26.12 per wicket. He feasts on the Bangladeshi batsmen.

 

[Beavers Headgear]

Interested thing reading this thread

Taylor was lynched after his Dunedin dismissal for the shot he played. He played the same shot in this match for 2 sixes without comment

 

[attila_the_gorilla]

Top order batsmen score their runs without taking unneccessary risks. Maybe he could be a number 6, if that`s the only way he can play. I`d take him over Oram for sure.

 

[Beavers Headgear]

No, he is a number 4, and will continue to be a number 4 while he is our best performing batsman, as he was in 2008