2nd Test: South Africa v Australia at Port Elizabeth March 9-13, 2018

[TheParraboy]

Call me crazy but I rate Mark Taylor just above Hayden with the bat.

And certainly as a complete package I'd pick him over Hayden hands down because he was also one of Australia's greatest captains, and also one of the GoaT 1st slippers which as a quality is just so incredibly underrated in cricket.

Lyon and tubby played tests together???

 

[JJ]

https://www.dawn.com/news/352727

14 years ago NZ v SA
Got a bit ugly in the middle.

Australia even gets a mention and we weren’t even playing



NAPIER, New Zealand, March 1: Rival New Zealand and South African cricket skippers will be warned to end their sledging battle, match referee Gundappa Viswanath of India said on day.

The two sides meet here Tuesday in the sixth and last one day cricket match in a series New Zealand has already won 4-1. New Zealand's Stephen Fleming and South Africa's Graeme Smith on Sunday indulged in a prolonged verbal exchange and Brendon McCullum and Jacques Kallis had to be separated after clashing mid-pitch.

"I'll just mention it, there's still a lot of cricket left in the series." New Zealand coach John Bracewell defended Fleming, suggesting he was sticking up for McCullum and Kyle Mills, who has clashed with Smith throughout the series.

"I quite like the way they're not allowing themselves to be bullied, and I like the way their team mates went in there and helped them out," Bracewell said.



"The South Africans learned the trick from the Australians but I don't think they're as good at it. "We're very aware of it, under pressure with their backs to the wall, people will try those things. The Australians do it by nature, they do it before they've started losing."


South Africa coach Eric Simons said he was disappointed with the Fleming-Smith clash

14 years ago, well that's relevant - you had to go 14 years to find a stoush without Aussies or Indians - how many Aust related events in those 14 years???

 

[Mr Angry]

Nice guys run last. Look at NZ.

Saffas ain't nice either.

 

[Bazal]

Call me crazy but I rate Mark Taylor just above Hayden with the bat.

And certainly as a complete package I'd pick him over Hayden hands down because he was also one of Australia's greatest captains, and also one of the GoaT 1st slippers which as a quality is just so incredibly underrated in cricket.

Yeah I agree. His record is considerably tarnished by the latter stages of his career though, and that's fair too. He was carried for far too long.

Hayden was ordinary at the start, Taylor was ordinary at the end. But Taylor had success against some of the best bowlers of all time, Hayden did not.

 

[Tommy Smith]

Yeah I agree. His record is considerably tarnished by the latter stages of his career though, and that's fair too. He was carried for far too long.

Hayden was ordinary at the start, Taylor was ordinary at the end. But Taylor had success against some of the best bowlers of all time, Hayden did not.

The tail end of his career definitely overshadows his peak.

As a result people tend to forget that he was a fine batsman in his prime; which was in and around arguably the most potent era of fast bowling world over the game has seen.

And again when you add in his captaincy and slips catching I think he's criminally underrated.

I've always said that I'd take Taylor/Slats over Hayden/Langer.

The records don't justify that but imo the eye test does. Although admittedly it's very close.

But you simply can not underestimate the difference between facing Ambrose & Walsh over Marlon Black & Nixon McLean; and Wasim & Waqar over Mohammad Sami, or White Lightning over Nantie Hayward & Andre Nel, and so on.

 

[TheParraboy]

14 years ago, well that's relevant - you had to go 14 years to find a stoush without Aussies or Indians - how many Aust related events in those 14 years???

What you on about??

Merely demonstrating just how nice and the ultimate good guys of cricket NZ has become in recent times
(Kiwis were outlining how better we were in sledging was my main point)

Aust has always sledged, no secrets there.

Like I said before some can’t handle oh the big bad Aussies, I can’t play now they hurt my feelings I’m gonna complain lol.

 

[JJ]

What you on about??

Merely demonstrating just how nice and the ultimate good guys of cricket NZ has become in recent times
(Kiwis were outlining how better we were in sledging was my main point)

Aust has always sledged, no secrets there.

Like I said before some can’t handle oh the big bad Aussies, I can’t play now they hurt my feelings I’m gonna complain lol.

I get all that but it's Warner with his feelings hurts here

 

[Hutty1986]

Lol losing 3/4 of his match fee for defending himself. Wonder what would happen if the roles were reversed.

 

[Twizzle]

Warner cleared to play second Test
Vice-captain accepts penalty of three demerit points for Durban incident, is one point away from automatic suspension

Australia vice-captain David Warner is free to play in the second Test against South Africa after accepting match referee Jeff Crowe’s sanction for the stairwell incident in Durban.

Warner was charged with a Level 2 breach of the ICC's code of conduct for bringing the game into disrepute and has been fined 75 per cent of his match fee (approximately $13,500) and given three demerit points.




CCTV shows Warner-de Kock incident

A Level 2 offence can warrant up to four demerit points being issued, which equates to an automatic suspension of one Test or two ODIs/T20I, whichever comes first.

But Warner has accepted a sanction of three points, meaning he's free to play in the second Test in Port Elizabeth, which starts on Friday.

It is unknown whether South Africa have accepted the Level 1 charge handed out to Quinton de Kock for his involvement in the heated confrontation with Warner outside the team’s dressing rooms at tea on day four in Durban.

https://www.cricket.com.au/news/dav...-australia-south-africa-suspension/2018-03-07

 

[hineyrulz]

The tail end of his career definitely overshadows his peak.

As a result people tend to forget that he was a fine batsman in his prime; which was in and around arguably the most potent era of fast bowling world over the game has seen.

And again when you add in his captaincy and slips catching I think he's criminally underrated.

I've always said that I'd take Taylor/Slats over Hayden/Langer.

The records don't justify that but imo the eye test does. Although admittedly it's very close.

But you simply can not underestimate the difference between facing Ambrose & Walsh over Marlon Black & Nixon McLean; and Wasim & Waqar over Mohammad Sami, or White Lightning over Nantie Hayward & Andre Nel, and so on.

Agree with all of this, he had to face some of the greatest quicks off all time. Hayden barely scored a run until they all retired or got long in the tooth. And when he did struggle there was always the drop in pitch at the MCG to save his arse.

 

[Tommy Smith]

Agree with all of this, he had to face some of the greatest quicks off all time. Hayden barely scored a run until they all retired or got long in the tooth. And when he did struggle there was always the drop in pitch at the MCG to save his arse.

As we know batsman vs bowler is a sport within a sport.

So on the surface you look at the averages of Hayden vs Taylor and you say, "well Hayden was clearly better".

But...

One analogy you might use to assess the difference in thr quality of bowling opposition is the FA Cup.

Mark Taylor and Michael Slater were constantly drawing Man Utd or Liverpool in the Cup. Hayden and Langer were often drawing Exeter or Hartlepool.

It's like on the surface a 7 nil win is better than a 1 nil win based purely on the stats. But when you factor in the opposition all of a sudden that 1 nil win can look better.

And similarly a 50 avg looks a lot better than early 40s; but then you factor in the bowlers; the sport within the sport.

And suddenly I'd take Tubby's avg of 44.

 

[Bazal]

Warner should have been suspended for being a prancing vagina.

Dish it out, expect it back

 

[TheParraboy]

im putting 10 bucks on a Warner ton

money for jam

nothing surer...

 

[JJ]

im putting 10 bucks on a Warner ton

money for jam

nothing surer...

Because he had a hissy fit? LOL

Dunno, the necessary conditions of a flat deck and dead rubber won't both be present...

 

[hineyrulz]

Tennis anyone????

 

[JJ]

Tennis anyone????

Nah, we have an exciting ODI series here with two good teams

Poor Davey couldn't handle de Kock's cutting words

 

[hineyrulz]

Nah, we have an exciting ODI series here with two good teams

Poor Davey couldn't handle de Kock's cutting words

Yeah because Dave called Poor De Kock a f**king sook which was so mean and ugly.

 

[JJ]

Yeah because Dave called Poor De Kock a f**king sook which was so mean and ugly.

Was it???

Again, it was Davey's carry on on the field and then in the stairwell that was ugly... he dished out abuse, and as has been the case with some Aussie cricketers in the past lost his rag when someone had a clever comeback... think Steve Waugh called that mental disintegration?

 

[hineyrulz]

Was it???

Again, it was Davey's carry on on the field and then in the stairwell that was ugly... he dished out abuse, and as has been the case with some Aussie cricketers in the past lost his rag when someone had a clever comeback... think Steve Waugh called that mental disintegration?

If Warner’s behaviour was so bad on the field why didn’t the umps step in???

Even Merkham said the aussies were chatty but didn’t cross the line.

I thought his stupid carry on after the run out was worse. He deserved his punishment for going off the way he did but from what we have heard the only one who got personal was De Kock face. Oh and Faf but how would he know he wasn’t out there long enough to cop anything.

 

[JJ]

If Warner’s behaviour was so bad on the field why didn’t the umps step in???

Even Merkham said the aussies were chatty but didn’t cross the line.

I thought his stupid carry on after the run out was worse. He deserved his punishment for going off the way he did but from what we have heard the only one who got personal was De Kock face. Oh and Faf but how would he know he wasn’t out there long enough to cop anything.

I was referring to the runout.

We've heard the Aussies say they didn't get 'personal' (by their definition) and the Jaapies disagree... I am not sure exactly what the code says, but everyone except the Aussies say they are always personal, as I said earlier in this thread, everyone seems to have their own self defined lines that aren't to be crossed... I don't see a place for mindless abuse, and that's what sometimes happens - if people can't handle a retort they shouldn't start it...

The whole family thing is weird, to me they can get stuffed - we laugh at the Botham "your wife and my kids" line, personally I think Sarwan's comeback to McGrath was also fine given what McGrath initiated, same with Eddo Brandes "every time I bonk your wife she gives me a cookie". Players who choose to start this stuff have to handle it when it comes back - simple... and Davey clearly can dish out plenty but can't handle it coming back (and he's not the only one, and it's not just Aussies, its lame twats generally)