What's new
The Front Row Forums

Register a free account today to become a member of the world's largest Rugby League discussion forum! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

2nd Test: South Africa v New Zealand at Port Elizabeth Jan 11-15, 2013

Hallatia

Referee
Messages
26,433
the New Zealand performance day 2 was just sad. Particularly with the bat. I was with Smith on waiting for Elgar's century to declare. It made no difference aside from poor Steyn who was hit with a ton of short balls. South Africa made up for that though with Morne and Kleinveldt targeting everyone with that sort of stuff. Can't see the match going to day 4. New Zealand would be lucky to make 100 in the first innings. I would like to see them do something in the second but they don't look like they have over 400 in an innings in them
 

Iafeta

Referee
Messages
24,357
Ok, lets cut through the rubbish (IE most of the New Zealand Cricket team and the entire organisation).

* The decision to ax Taylor and the way it was done, cannot help but think this has seriously put a split in the NZC dressing room.
* Jeetan Patel, he'd seriously struggle to get overs in Sydney club cricket. He should never play another test match. He is a horrific pie thrower of epic proportions.
* Martin Guptill, he needs to go out and get 4-5 first class tons before he sees the light of a test match again
* Daniel Flynn, this whole "this guys got nuts" thing, he's an abject failure of an international bat. How many tests now is this with a test average well under 30 and no test tons? Batsmen are there to score runs.
* Are we seriously going to continue with this muppet coach who has basically driven the great divide through the joint?
* What would we do to get Wright back?

There was a test match season back in about 94/95 where they dipped to such low standards. Walsh in 1 test got 13 for 55 I think it was in Wellington. In the first innings the Windies piled on tons while Shane Thomson stood at first slip, picked while clearly sporting an injury. Junior Murray freakin got a ton. Other than that, in all the time I've watched New Zealand Cricket I've never for the life of me seen such dire times.

I think we should be going one step further here in the obituarision of New Zealand Cricket. One person who I think has escaped the knives (by very cleverly working out when to get out when he'd stuffed it all up) is Justin Vaughan. What on earth has he done?
 

Fast Eddie

First Grade
Messages
8,085
In order of people who have to go from this current team

Hesson
Whoever was involved in putting Hesson in as coach
Guptill
Patel
Flynn
Bracewell/Wagner (when Southee is back)

Watling takes the vacant opening spot. Ronchi comes in as keeper.
 
Last edited:

Red&BlackBear

First Grade
Messages
5,603
Whole team needs to be dumped and a new one needs to be sent over here to play each state twice in the 4 day game before even considering re-entering the test arena and when they do it should be against Bangladesh, Sri Lanka and West Indies.
 

Patorick

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
8,997
Whole team needs to be dumped and a new one needs to be sent over here to play each state twice in the 4 day game before even considering re-entering the test arena and when they do it should be against Bangladesh, Sri Lanka and West Indies.
And Ireland.

:sarcasm:
 
Messages
2,137
I think it's unfair to the spectators that shit teams get to play test maches against good teams. There should be some sort of system in place whereby the shit teams need to earn the right to play tests against the good teams.
 

Iafeta

Referee
Messages
24,357
Well yeah, for the quality of test cricket you're probably right atilla. The issue would be though if you keep playing against rubbish nations, you're not really giving those teams any chance of becoming good test nations, because you're only testing yourself against rubbish.

I think the ICC needs to get involved in some form or fashion. I mean, you can understand the West Indies going through lulls - they're not heavily populated, and they're not a wealthy group of nations. Bangladesh, you can understand, because they are extraordinarily poor financially. Zimbabwe, financial disparaties are huge in that country and there's enormous political turmoil. But what is New Zealand's excuse? I would see a time in say 15 years where Bangladesh with its population and love for cricket that they can be a good test nation. I can't see it with New Zealand.

New Zealand needs to quickly look at its first class system. To have six first class teams in a nation that size is always going to mean average cricketers are getting guernseys. It sohuld be four max. There should be a strategy involved around their quality of pitches too. A decade ago they were all green tops. Now I hear they're practically batting paradises. There has to be variety. Pithces that spin, pitches that are fast and bouncy, pitches that are green. Put players under pressure more regularly. Allow spinners to learn to be more than guys who bowl 20 overs in a day to give their pace bowlers a rest. The other thing that MUST happen is the return of regular and full, extended NZ "A" team tours and tournaments, so that the group of players on the fringe learn how to play on different surfaces, against a high quality of opponent, so that going on an international tour isn't so much of a tough experience in terms of pitches, and in terms of quality, the gap is somewhat bridged.

R&B Bear, Bangladesh DID beat them. Comprehensively about 3 years ago in an ODI series. In Bangladesh currently I think New Zealand is every chance of losing.

Fast Eddie, agree with most of your list. Not sure on Bracewell. I thought he was easily the best of the main attack in terms of the length hit, which is crucial in South Africa. Wagner, I don't agree with, early on he was getting a lot of knicks through third and fourth slip down to the third man boundary. Could easily have got wickets early on. The bloke who basically appointed Hesson was Buchanan, in that it was his over the top involvement that forced John Wright to give it away.
 

edabomb

First Grade
Messages
7,208
Hesson has said the goal is the next World Cup hasn't he? Why you would be building towards something that you realistically have a 1% chance of winning I do not know. I think if we're gonna chuck all our eggs in that basket we should give up on tests though - because it is getting ridiculously embarrassing.
 

Iafeta

Referee
Messages
24,357
That World Cup is in NZ and Australia isn't it? If thats the case, I have no issues with that ... but thats for the short form of the game only. Test cricket should NEVER be used as a springboard for anything else. It is, was and always will be premier version of the game, and a coach surely is smart enough never to devalue it.
 

Fast Eddie

First Grade
Messages
8,085
Fast Eddie, agree with most of your list. Not sure on Bracewell. I thought he was easily the best of the main attack in terms of the length hit, which is crucial in South Africa. Wagner, I don't agree with, early on he was getting a lot of knicks through third and fourth slip down to the third man boundary. Could easily have got wickets early on. The bloke who basically appointed Hesson was Buchanan, in that it was his over the top involvement that forced John Wright to give it away.

I just meant in that when Southee returns Wagner or Bracewell will have to make way. It will be Wagner but I agree that he had some decent spells.
 

Hallatia

Referee
Messages
26,433
Steyn just carries on like a pork chop at times, screaming and glaring when he takes a wicket etc.
Steyn uses the fire to bowl well and he needs it, when he started he was a nice guy on the field and it really wasn't good for him. The fire he utilises makes him the best and most dangerous bowler currently in the game. But really, he is lovely. Unlike his captain who is a jerkface both on and off the field
 

Iafeta

Referee
Messages
24,357
I think you're right. I think in terms of test cricket, its fairly clear cut what needs to happen.

Watling
McCullum
Williamson
Taylor
Brownlie
Somehow they have to get Ryder involved again
Ronchi
Somehow they have to find a spinner, otherwise, they may well go with a 4 pronged pace attack and give Williamson some overs
Southee
Bracewell
Boult

The big question marks are how to get Ryder involved again and where on earth they're going to find a half decent spinner. Patel is fair dinkum horrific.
 

Fast Eddie

First Grade
Messages
8,085
Thats the best line up we can field. Ryder won't play against England so I'm not sure who will bat in the middle order in his spot. The Cachopa from CD maybe?

And if Vettori is fit again he will be picked, but for genuine spinner options theres Nethula, Martin, Astle? I wouldn't mind seeing Astle get a crack, plus he's handy with the bat. So presuming Ryder and Vettori are out I'd go with this for the home series

Watling
McCullum
Williamson
Taylor
Brownlie
Cachopa (Carl)
Ronchi
Astle
Southee
Bracewell
Boult

Decent enough side, not good enough to win but I'd like to think it can compete at home.
 
Top