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3rd Ashes Test: England v Australia at Birmingham on Jul 29-Aug 2, 2015

Tommy Smith

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21,344
I know he has a huge amount of love here, and fair enough - but his test average away from Australia is 41.7 (62 at home) - if he was a foreigner (think Jayawardene) the same fan boys would be bagging him

He's been a fine player - but not an Australian great imo
I just checked Jayawardene's record and they're basically exactly the same. Both hugely dominant in favourable home conditions but merely solid test players away from home.

But you're right though; Mahela has been to some degree a figure of derision. Labelled a player who feasts in home conditions but unable to replicate that away. Clarke is essentially the same with, like Jayawardene, the odd great innings being the exception.

Both are clearly below the likes of Sanga, Kallis and Ponting to name three.

I still think they're both greats. Clarke is a modern day Aussie great as his numbers are still impressive. But he's not in that elite company.
 

Rabbits20

Immortal
Messages
42,062
Australia may make changes for the next test.

Voges could be out for S. Marsh

M. Marsh (I don't like saying this) there is a chance Wato may come back in.
 

WaznTheGreat

Referee
Messages
24,416
Marcus Stoinis averages around 8 million since moving up the order for Ploddtoria(not his overall average of 40 but his average since moving)

Id rather give that kid a go than bring back S Marsh and Watto,if not Stoinis than Joe Burns at least,whats the point of bringing back S Marsh and Watto?
 

BCH

Juniors
Messages
179
Here is a crazy idea....put a proper batsman at 6.

Bingo.

Ever since Flintoff had that remarkable series as an all-rounder (2005 I think) Australia has been obsessed with having an all-rounder at 6. It never used to be the case.

The top 6 used to be specialist bats, generally the keeper @ 7, 3 then pacers and a spinner. However, we could then usually rely on 1 or 2 of the top 6 being good enough as a change up bowler to lessen the load on the bowlers.

In my opinion, the balance of our test side has been wrong (for Australia) since going for the all-rounder @ 6. You can't do it unless the all-rounder is good enough to stand alone as a no. 6 test batsman. And this short coming has been magnified since the modern day batsmen don't have the skill to dig in and fight to protect their wicket.
 

hineyrulz

Post Whore
Messages
154,110
Voges is a plodder, can't believe they picked this 35 joke.

Our batting like up once again letting down our quality bowling line up. Big changes are needed, the next generation of bats must be blooded and blooded soon.
 

chigurh

Guest
Messages
3,958
Yeah, our bowlers have been carrying the side for years and the scary thing is it looks like we are going to become even more reliant on them over the next few years.
 

Red Bear

Referee
Messages
20,882
Clarkes position is rapidly becoming unjustifiable.
You justified Haddins for ages, and Clarke has a much better record and has been a better player. Looks like back and hamstring injuries have caught up to him though the way he is playing. They'll keep him to the end of summer

He's on the level below players like chappell and Ponting.

I just checked Jayawardene's record and they're basically exactly the same. Both hugely dominant in favourable home conditions but merely solid test players away from home.

But you're right though; Mahela has been to some degree a figure of derision. Labelled a player who feasts in home conditions but unable to replicate that away. Clarke is essentially the same with, like Jayawardene, the odd great innings being the exception.

Both are clearly below the likes of Sanga, Kallis and Ponting to name three.

I still think they're both greats. Clarke is a modern day Aussie great as his numbers are still impressive. But he's not in that elite company.
Well, yeah, but so are plenty of batsmen. It's not really a slight. Pontings amongst the best of all time and would probably make an Aus all time XI. Clarke was a really really good player for some time, despite a number of bad injury problems. He certainly didnt go as well away from home but still managed some very important runs against good opposition overseas (e.g. superb centuries in each of his last two trips to South Africa against probable the best bowling attack around, centuries in England the last two tours, runs in India).

Jayawardene is a little different because his away average of 40 odd is boosted by performing in very similar conditions in India (averages a very good 60), 40+ in Zimbabwe, Pakistan, Windies, but is 35 in England, 32 in Aust, 27 in South Africa and NZ. Clarkes overall numbers are down overseas but has generally still been a reasonable contributor in each conditions, averaging 40 odd in India and South Africa, 42-43 in Sri Lanka and England (Has dropped from 46.5 in 17 English tests prior to this series, probably a better reflection of his performances), 49 in NZ, 39.5 in Windies. Only two disaster zones are bangladesh and UAE where his four tests have only yielded a tad over 100 runs total.

Their records looks similar but Clarke was able to play in a greater range of conditions (just none near as well as home conditions, none too bad), whilst jayawardene clearly had a pretty major weakness against good fast bowling in fast bowling conditions (because most of those countries also had very good attacks over his career). Both very good players.
 

Red Bear

Referee
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20,882
Anyway, very good to see nevill showing the levels of application he consistently has for NSW. Something we've needed down the order for some time.

As for Voges, few have had such a dominant FC season. Not since Katich's amazing year has anyone demanded selection like that. Doesn't look like working out but hardly a terrible call to pick him. He was rolling along in County cricket also and scored a ton in his first test.

Burns will get another shot. There's a few interesting other young batsmen around. Would love a big season from Lynn, ditto Handscombe.
 

WaznTheGreat

Referee
Messages
24,416
You only have to look at the Australia A side to see our f**ked the batting in this country is,none of the twats in this side even average over 40 in FC,Maddinson,Bancroft,Handscomb,Khawaja etc etc

Disgraceful lack of depth,remember when Lehmann,Bevan,Hodge etc etc etc averaged 8 million in FC and still couldn't make the Aussie team.

Australia will be minnows in the future.
 

Twizzle

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
153,603
150 run leads would not be enough the way our bowlers are performing.

And the chances of us getting a 150 lead are even more slim imo.
 

WaznTheGreat

Referee
Messages
24,416
It must be said though that Moeen Ali is a flukey bastard,played and missed at about 100 deliveries,shots falling just safe from fielders 100 times,they could have been bowled out for 220 if not for this flukey prick.

Bring back Tim Bresnan
 

lockyno1

Post Whore
Messages
53,348
150 run leads would not be enough the way our bowlers are performing.

And the chances of us getting a 150 lead are even more slim imo.

We rolled them for 120 last test....get Cook and Ellen early and you never know. You really need 250 odd in front but that is zero chance. Maybe if Warner was in.
 

Twizzle

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
153,603
I also still think Haze and Starc are our best good young bowlers, problem is being young they can be inconsistent and possibly too much score board watching and trying to get wickets every ball.

Maturity and patience needed and all this is a learning curve for these guys.
 

Mr Spock!

Referee
Messages
22,502
You only have to look at the Australia A side to see our f**ked the batting in this country is,none of the twats in this side even average over 40 in FC,Maddinson,Bancroft,Handscomb,Khawaja etc etc

Disgraceful lack of depth,remember when Lehmann,Bevan,Hodge etc etc etc averaged 8 million in FC and still couldn't make the Aussie team.

Australia will be minnows in the future.

The other teams aren't much better.

The Saffers nearly got rolled by Bangladesh recently. Take De Villiers out and they are bog average.

The quality of batting around the world in test cricket is poor.

An average of 40+ is now excellent.
 

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