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3rd ODI: England v Australia at Manchester on Sep 8, 2015

Pete Cash

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62,165
Maybe he has high expectations on himself.

This isn't new Zealand cricket lol. Australian cricket wants results. Even if its not realistic.
 

Twizzle

Administrator
Staff member
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154,198
Not sure what Williamson has to do with it, I think they're both fine young players - Smith's done more in tests, Williamson more in odis

I merely said your top 6 has been poor, and Smith's acting like he's under pressure (not as a bat, just generally) which he's not


twizzle then went off on some tangent - I'm kind of over it now...


By discrediting your claim that Smith had an atrocious series ?

See everyone else's response. I really didn't need to say much.

For a bloke that is over it, you sure keep trying to cling onto your baseless claim.
 

Pete Cash

Post Whore
Messages
62,165
Australians are always going to struggle on the type of wicket that was dished up at Trent bridge outside of exceptional performances. We haven't lost a test at the gabba for like 20 years....why do you think that is. Why did we annihilate your lot at the gabba but then lost at Tasmania ?

Are kiwis more likely to play on a pitch like the gabba or bellerive oval in their day to day life ????
 

Das Gupta

Juniors
Messages
977
Writing off a double ton coming off a badly lost test match is also laughable. England didn't bat so well on that pitch

Australia didn't bat much better at Trent Bridge either or Edgbaston.
Once Australia posted 500 I reckon the Poms gave up. They should have grounded out another 100 runs in their 1st dig. They were disgraceful in their 2nd dig.. ..though not as bad as your mob were at Trent Bridge.

I am not writing off a double ton or writing off Smith's talent either but, isn't strange he cashed in runs on the 2 somewhat flat surfaces in London (lords & The Oval) but couldn't buy a run at the swinging Trent Bridge or Edgbaston ? and he threw away starts on the up and down pitch at Cardiff.
He also threw away another start the other night on the turner at Old Trafford.
Forget the decks at home this summer lets see how he goes in India next time with the added pressure of captaincy.
 
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Tommy Smith

Referee
Messages
21,344
Smith's scores in the four live tests in the Ashes:

33
33
215
58
7
8
6
5

Root's scores in the four live tests in the Ashes:

134
60
1
17
63
38 n.o.
130

Smith had one good test in four. Root had three good tests in four.

Forget the series average because it's pretty simple. Smith contributed significantly to his team losing 3 out of 4 live tests. Root significantly contributed to his team winning 3 out of 4 tests.

Thus, it's clear that Smith had a poor series. And Root was much better.
 

WaznTheGreat

Referee
Messages
24,421
Smith and Root are both geniuss who would average 20 in a proper era,AB De Villiers and Sanga would be legends in any era.
 

Pete Cash

Post Whore
Messages
62,165
Smith's scores in the four live tests in the Ashes:

33
33
215
58
7
8
6
5

Root's scores in the four live tests in the Ashes:

134
60
1
17
63
38 n.o.
130

Smith had one good test in four. Root had three good tests in four.

Forget the series average because it's pretty simple. Smith contributed significantly to his team losing 3 out of 4 live tests. Root significantly contributed to his team winning 3 out of 4 tests.

Thus, it's clear that Smith had a poor series. And Root was much better.

This is a dumb post :lol:
 

Pete Cash

Post Whore
Messages
62,165
Obviously root needs a flat deck with zero scoreboard pressure or his bowlers to have completely dicked the opposition to score runs. He collapses under the smallest bit of scoreboard pressure.....

So taking away all the runs he scored I think you will find Joe Root actually scored zero for the series.
 

simmo1

First Grade
Messages
5,570
Smith was third best bat in the series behind Root and Rogers. Then a pretty big gap to Warner, and an even bigger gap to everyone else.

Still a few questions about Smith's technique against the moving ball, but he's certainly not the only one. I think it'd be harsh to say he had a poor series, but it definitely showed that the team relies heavily on him scoring runs, and tbh don't think he's quite good enough (yet) to carry a batting order on his own like some of the all-time greats could.
 

Twizzle

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
154,198
Reality

twizzle's reality

Feel free to discredit my actual claim

Already did, do you need to to repeat myself ?

You said our top 6 has been atrocious, Smith bats in the top 6 and had the highest average of the series.

Not sure where you are going with this. For some one who is over this you sure keep coming back a lot.
 

Pete Cash

Post Whore
Messages
62,165
Smith was third best bat in the series behind Root and Rogers. Then a pretty big gap to Warner, and an even bigger gap to everyone else.

Still a few questions about Smith's technique against the moving ball, but he's certainly not the only one. I think it'd be harsh to say he had a poor series, but it definitely showed that the team relies heavily on him scoring runs, and tbh don't think he's quite good enough (yet) to carry a batting order on his own like some of the all-time greats could.

People seem to be expecting Smith to fail. He was in a purple patch and was allowing his technique to get ridiculous. He sorted it out and played the oval much more normal.

If we go back to the 2013 Ashes he actually played a pretty decent innings at Trent Bridge. He came in after Clarke got bowled by a screamer and he and Hughes stabilised the innings iirc. He scored a decent enough 50. Which is what we needed from the middle order at Edgbaston and Trent Bridge.
 

Pennies

Juniors
Messages
396
Obviously root needs a flat deck with zero scoreboard pressure or his bowlers to have completely dicked the opposition to score runs. He collapses under the smallest bit of scoreboard pressure.....

So taking away all the runs he scored I think you will find Joe Root actually scored zero for the series.

So coming in at 3/43 in an ashes opener and scoring a match turning ton against the raging hot favourites on a weird pitch is no pressure at all??? Give me a break.

The only ones that collapsed under the pressure was the Australian team. Shamefully at Trent Bridge.
As proven in India,Twice in England, and against Pakistan in Abu Dubai Australia are nothing but flat track thugs.
Taking out the test series against the minnows Windies, Australia have lost 4 out of their 5 past tests series abroad.
 

Pennies

Juniors
Messages
396
Root was dropped on 0 by Haddin,should have been 4/43

Root is an overrated modern era donkey like Smith

Yes he was dropped but he was under pressure coming out against the world champs and under further pressure being dropped. But he still went on under pressure and revived England's fortunes by scoring a ton.
The ton was not scored on a flat pitch nor was it scored when England were in a dominant position. Hence he is not totally a flat track bully.
Lets wait a few years and see what how Root and Smith have progressed before passing judgement on their careers.
 
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Tommy Smith

Referee
Messages
21,344
Can we all agree that Brad the merkin Haddin dropped the Ashes?

If he caught Root for 0, which was a sitter, Australia would have won the first test and retained the Ashes.

Haynetrain >>>>>>> Wade >>>>>> Haddin.
 

Red Bear

Referee
Messages
20,882
It's obviously hard for Australians to bat in England. Especially now because they are so rarely exposed to English conditions. Our top 3 who are exposed to the new ball had a reasonable series. There is plenty to criticise Smith for his idiotic shot during the second innings at Trent Bridge and as mentioned his stupid dismissal at Cardiff but where was the middle order.

If we use Tommys standard then roots first century doesn't count because it was batting first on a flat wicket and his second doesn't count because Australia had failed so badly and he had anti scoreboard pressure on him. What a bad series Joe Root had when we arbitrarily remove all his runs.
I've been saying this for a little while, but that's a big factor. In fact other than South Africa most sides are shithouse outside their home conditions.

Australia in Australia, where the bounce is generally true to steep, thrive. Some call our pitches flat yet our bowlers tend to run through them.

England however don't generally do well out here, despite arguably better batting conditions. They're used to slower conditions of England. Much like the Indians thrive on the poor bounce of their home pitches.

It's not so much flat pitches, it's that teams don't generally adjust to conditions outside their home ones. Alot of that is the amount of T20/ODI/tours in general that are jammed in. It's rare that sides prepare properly in foreign conditions (England did in 2010/11 and it helped enormously). And that's where at least some of Aus problems lay - couple of games on relatively flat pitches against poor opposition where the Marshes were belting tons. Not a great prep for the pitches of tests 3&4.

I'm surprised the Kiwi's are only playing one warm up match tbh. It's rare sides are ever prepared out here, we run through em at the Gabba and the series is just about over.
 

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