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4 nations and the international game

Springs

First Grade
Messages
5,682
Look at the facts... Australia and NZ IS international league. The steps are in process so that the lesser nations play more tests and tournaments against each other. But they'll always struggle to compete with the best. The reason half the RLIF board is made up of the ARL is because Australia is the only country where rugby league can claim to be a national sport. Maybe to some extent in NZ but it is waaaay to far behind Rugby it's not even comparable.

Origin works and is a massive money spinner because people care about it, and it fits in right in the highlight of the NRL season. International league just doesn't have that interest and there just isn't money available to help other countries develop and improve at grassroots level. That's not the ARL's job. Other countries have to fund themselves and the RLIF can help them out but in the end it comes down the the lesser nations and often the resources just aren't there.

That furthers on with your last point. Countries like Australia and NZ have the strength based on their domestic competitions to put money back into their national sides and into the game at grassroots level. Other countries simply don't have the popularity of the sport or the economy to do that.

So it was Australia vs no-one in the Final last year?
There is not as much passion for international League as there is for Origin, in AUSTRALIA. I'm pretty sure there is great interest for England and New Zealand fans, as well as PNG and as shown in the European Cup, France.
I agree that there is not as much passion in following Australia as there is for following your state. I cannot follow Australia any more but I still follow the Blues with a passion.
 

Joker's Wild

Coach
Messages
17,894
you mean the con job that silly aussies swallow hook line and sinker.. ?

bit like the silly horse race tomorrow, its just a bloody horse race....

Thankyou for proving my point

Why do you have support one of the teams to see if the game has intensity? I enjoy watching SOO because I am a Rugby league fan but it is over hyped these days.
Ask the players who have been involved in both. The answer is always the same
 

Eels Dude

Coach
Messages
19,065
Why do you have support one of the teams to see if the game has intensity? I enjoy watching SOO because I am a Rugby league fan but it is over hyped these days.

Because those who support a side care about the result and get involved in the game more, and only one who supports a side can understand the feeling and the emotions of what it means. You'd go through similar emotions I assume supporting the Kiwis because they actually mean something to you. So as an outsider looking in you can't understand what origin means to a NSW or QLD supporter unless you attempt to step into their shoes.
 

Eels Dude

Coach
Messages
19,065
So it was Australia vs no-one in the Final last year?
There is not as much passion for international League as there is for Origin, in AUSTRALIA. I'm pretty sure there is great interest for England and New Zealand fans, as well as PNG and as shown in the European Cup, France.
I agree that there is not as much passion in following Australia as there is for following your state. I cannot follow Australia any more but I still follow the Blues with a passion.

There it is. It means a hell of a lot more to NZ that they beat us, then it does if we beat them. If Australia lost the four nations nobody would care apart from the diehard fans, players, and officials (whose heads are on the line I might add) and that's not many.
 

Fast Eddie

First Grade
Messages
8,085
Because those who support a side care about the result and get involved in the game more, and only one who supports a side can understand the feeling and the emotions of what it means. You'd go through similar emotions I assume supporting the Kiwis because they actually mean something to you. So as an outsider looking in you can't understand what origin means to a NSW or QLD supporter unless you attempt to step into their shoes.

That doesn't really make any sense at all.
 

Iafeta

Referee
Messages
24,357
Look at the facts... Australia and NZ IS international league. The steps are in process so that the lesser nations play more tests and tournaments against each other. But they'll always struggle to compete with the best. The reason half the RLIF board is made up of the ARL is because Australia is the only country where rugby league can claim to be a national sport. Maybe to some extent in NZ but it is waaaay to far behind Rugby it's not even comparable.

Origin works and is a massive money spinner because people care about it, and it fits in right in the highlight of the NRL season. International league just doesn't have that interest and there just isn't money available to help other countries develop and improve at grassroots level. That's not the ARL's job. Other countries have to fund themselves and the RLIF can help them out but in the end it comes down the the lesser nations and often the resources just aren't there.

That furthers on with your last point. Countries like Australia and NZ have the strength based on their domestic competitions to put money back into their national sides and into the game at grassroots level. Other countries simply don't have the popularity of the sport or the economy to do that.

For a start, I don't agree that international league is New Zealand and Australia. England defeated New Zealand last year, and have consistently competed with them ever since I've watched the game. I also don't believe it needs to stay as such. Why was France so successful back in its halcyon days? Why was a test series against the Kumuls for a team like New Zealand or Great Britain a genuine obstacle? These nations HAVE been strong in the past. You talk of resources, Papua New Guinea has always been economically a poor nation with an immense also dispersed passion in rugby league. I can look at football and look at pitiful nations like Ghana, Nigeria, Senegal who have all been competitive on the world stage. Football is marketed very cleverly on an international scale. Rugby league is not.

As far as Origin being a money spinner because people care about it - why is that? Go back to the late 70s and interstate league was crashing down with continual NSW dominance because of the absurdity of residency rather than origin itself. Origin was gimmicked and marketed brilliantly. To say international rugby league can't achieve that is short sighted. We have a great live product.

The true question is, how do we get the bottom three of the top five back to some sort of regular competitiveness? What would make a damn fine start would be to apply the same hype, the same fervent passion in strategic thought process, to international league as they did for Origin. The second step would be to stop representatives on the international board from having an insular self protected view of their own backyard.
 

babyg

Juniors
Messages
1,512
There it is. It means a hell of a lot more to NZ that they beat us, then it does if we beat them. If Australia lost the four nations nobody would care apart from the diehard fans, players, and officials (whose heads are on the line I might add) and that's not many.

Doesn't that just mean we are all arrogant f**ks in Australia. We think we're the sh*t even when we lose every second tournament. Dissregard the losses and assume there's no competition when we win.
 

ozbash

Referee
Messages
26,922
doesn't that just mean we are all arrogant f**ks in australia. We think we're the sh*t even when we lose every second tournament. Dissregard the losses and assume there's no competition when we win.

yes !!
 

Eels Dude

Coach
Messages
19,065
That doesn't really make any sense at all.

It makes perfect sense you just don't get it. To you SOO is just a game of footy to watch. Some light entertainment because it's 'rugby league' as you said earlier, but to a NSW or QLD supporter it's a hell of a lot more than that. That trophy represents something. If you cannot see where I am coming from there is no point argueing with you.

Being a fan of either of the team has nothing to do with the actual intensity of the play.

It does with how you percieve the game. If you don't care about who wins, it's obviously not going to come across as such an intense experience is it...
 

Eels Dude

Coach
Messages
19,065
Doesn't that just mean we are all arrogant f**ks in Australia. We think we're the sh*t even when we lose every second tournament. Dissregard the losses and assume there's no competition when we win.

To a point yeah... bit like cricket. We win it's not a big deal, lose the Ashes and everyone's devestated. Our nations most profilic sporting moment is apparently winning some yacht race in the 80's nobody's given a stuff about since. But when you win so much it gets boring, it's taken for granted. And that's why the support for Australian teams or individuals (eg Socceroos) is so much greater for sports we generally struggle in internationally.
 
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flamin

Juniors
Messages
2,046
Australia and NZ's dominance of internationals on the other hand will not change anytime in the next couple of decades. Call me arrogant, call me what you want - but at the end of the day, only people with delusions of grandeur think otherwise.


Really?

It was only 5 years ago people were talking about Australia's dominance (some still are) and how the other sides would never get close. Now NZ is considered a genuine challenge to Australia. Things change. And change is only fuelled by those vision to imagine an alternative.

We certainly can't expect an improvement by sitting around doing nothing.
 

KeepingTheFaith

Referee
Messages
25,235
There it is. It means a hell of a lot more to NZ that they beat us, then it does if we beat them. If Australia lost the four nations nobody would care apart from the diehard fans, players, and officials (whose heads are on the line I might add) and that's not many.

Which is exactly how Origin started. Just replace NZ with QLD and Australia with NSW.

The problem with SOO is that it's used as a selling point to lure the best away from representing other countries, which only further weakens the international game and gives it little chance of growing outside of QLD/NSW.

That's why you'll never see international league hyped to the extent that Origin is, there's not enough for Australia to gain.
 

Fast Eddie

First Grade
Messages
8,085
It makes perfect sense you just don't get it. To you SOO is just a game of footy to watch. Some light entertainment because it's 'rugby league' as you said earlier, but to a NSW or QLD supporter it's a hell of a lot more than that. That trophy represents something. If you cannot see where I am coming from there is no point argueing with you.



It does with how you percieve the game. If you don't care about who wins, it's obviously not going to come across as such an intense experience is it...

So you're pretty much saying you over state the intenseness of the game because you have an emotional attachment to it? It's pretty easy to judge and compare intensity of games objectively imo. Players behaviour and body language, line speed and general speed of the game, defensive intensity etc
 

Eels Dude

Coach
Messages
19,065
Which is exactly how Origin started. Just replace NZ with QLD and Australia with NSW.

The problem with SOO is that it's used as a selling point to lure the best away from representing other countries, which only further weakens the international game and gives it little chance of growing outside of QLD/NSW.

That's why you'll never see international league hyped to the extent that Origin is, there's not enough for Australia to gain.

Yeah maybe if NZ can win this tournament then it will change. If they win back to back it certainly will. SOO is Australia's tournament. Other countries can develop their own if they see fit and it offers their players advantages. But the ARL shouldn't cheapen SOO for the sake of the international game.
 

Eels Dude

Coach
Messages
19,065
So you're pretty much saying you over state the intenseness of the game because you have an emotional attachment to it? It's pretty easy to judge and compare intensity of games objectively imo. Players behaviour and body language, line speed and general speed of the game, defensive intensity etc

I'm saying what I take out of it myself watching, compared to international games, and from the way I see it and judge you're they SOO is as intense as ever on the field. If you think otherwise that's your opinion but I believe you're incorrect. You can claim to be objective but so am I.
 

adamkungl

Immortal
Messages
42,971
Yeah maybe if NZ can win this tournament then it will change. If they win back to back it certainly will. SOO is Australia's tournament. Other countries can develop their own if they see fit and it offers their players advantages. But the ARL shouldn't cheapen SOO for the sake of the international game.

Allowing born and bred QLDers like Vidot to represent their country of heritage as well as their state doesn't cheapen anything.

Picking born and bred NSW boys like Inglis for QLD does.

I don't understand how so many people are blinded by this bullsh*t. There's no cheapening if the rules are done right - it's just the ARL keeping their strangehold on the international game.
 

Eels Dude

Coach
Messages
19,065
Allowing born and bred QLDers like Vidot to represent their country of heritage as well as their state doesn't cheapen anything.

Picking born and bred NSW boys like Inglis for QLD does.

I don't understand how so many people are blinded by this bullsh*t. There's no cheapening if the rules are done right - it's just the ARL keeping their strangehold on the international game.

Where do you draw the line though? It's already a joke Nathan Fien can play for NZ and K Hunt for Australia, then doesn't that just allow loopholes like Isaac Luke playing origin? Agree on Inglis, but he's one off and it's not right.
 

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