What's new
The Front Row Forums

Register a free account today to become a member of the world's largest Rugby League discussion forum! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

5th ODI: India v England at Dharamsala - Jan 27, 2013

Hallatia

Referee
Messages
26,433
I meant to mention that I think that Kumar kid is kind of cute and he's my age, a month and a week older than me. Shami is 5 days older than me
 

Hallatia

Referee
Messages
26,433
2 wickets in 3 balls for Kumar, Root is still out there, but England seem kind of rooted now. It would take a sudden shift in the status of the game for England to start competing again
 

Hallatia

Referee
Messages
26,433
the headline is deliberately misleading
Dhoni 'best in world' - Cook
ESPNcricinfo staff
January 15, 2013

Alastair Cook, England's captain, described MS Dhoni as one of the hardest players in the world to bowl to at the death after his counterattacking 72 from 66 balls late in India's innings provided the platform for their 127-run victory in the second ODI. Dhoni and Ravindra Jadeja added 96 in ten overs for the sixth wicket, taking apart England's inexperienced attack during the closing stages of the innings, and Cook said that coming up with a field and a bowling plan for his India counterpart was extremely tough.

"He [Dhoni] is probably the best player in the world in those situations, in these conditions," Cook said. "He does it time and time again. He's incredibly hard to bowl at and with that extra man in the circle, it's very, very hard to stop on these flat wickets."

Although James Tredwell conceded just nine runs combined from the 42nd and 44th overs, Cook opted for his pace trio of Steven Finn, Jade Dernbach and Chris Woakes at the death but they failed to keep a lid on India's scoring rate.

"You're always going to have hindsight, but probably one batsman you don't want an offspinner bowling to is Dhoni," Cook said. "We've seen him a number of times and with a spinner at the end, it's very hard to bowl to him. So, look, clearly when you get hit for 68 runs in the last five overs, you think, maybe you could have done things differently. But at the time, for me, it was a very big gamble to make."

The win drew India level at 1-1 in the five-match series but, despite the emphatic result, the top order again struggled, falling to 119 for 4 just past the midway stage of the innings before Dhoni, Suresh Raina and Jadeja rebuilt. The bowlers bounced back from conceding 325 in Rajkot to dismiss England for 158 but Dhoni said problems remained in both departments and they could not hope for the dominance of recent ODI series between the two sides in India.

"We're going through a stage when we don't have the same firepower when it comes to the bowling department. Our batting department is not able to convert those starts into a big innings. But we're fielding really well, and that's a big positive for us," he said.

Dhoni described the failure of the batsmen to go on when well set as a "big problem". He said: "If three or four batsmen make 50, then it's important at least one or two of them go on to make at least 75. So that the new batsmen coming after them, when say two quick wickets fall, then they won't feel that much pressure. I think it's very important. If you look at the good side, our batsmen are getting starts. Yes, I would like them to convert their starts to a big innings so that it won't put pressure on the rest."
Sauce
I think Cook's assessment is pretty accurate.
 

AlwaysGreen

Post Whore
Messages
51,460
Dhoni is the best in the world in the finishing role and probably the best ODI batsman in that format. He pretty much won India the last World Cup.
 

vvvrulz

Coach
Messages
13,629
Dhoni is the best in the world in the finishing role and probably the best ODI batsman in that format. He pretty much won India the last World Cup.

Wrong, Dhoni fired exactly once (in the final) and that was after Gambhir threw away what should have been a century. The in-form Yuvraj was supposed to come in when Dhoni did, MSD just came in and stole the limelight.

He's a decent limited overs batsman, but don't forget he plays a ridiculous amount of games on Asian pitches.
 

Hallatia

Referee
Messages
26,433
the ODI series is currently level at 1 a piece. Third match commences today at 5:30pm AEDST
Dhoni fanfare overtakes main event
The Preview by Abhishek Purohit
January 18, 2013

Match facts
January 19, 2013
Start time 1200 (0630 GMT)

Big Picture
Chirkunda is a small border town in Dhanbad district of the Indian state of Jharkhand, where a future national icon came to play a local tennis-ball cricket tournament in the late 1990s. There are hundreds of towns like Chirkunda across Jharkhand, which has mostly made the news for Maoist unrest and political instability. And many people from many such towns will feel pride in the story of a boy from their capital Ranchi, who rose and rose from anonymity.
That boy, MS Dhoni, now returns to his hometown as India captain, World Cup winner, to play in Ranchi's first ODI. To say that Ranchi is an emotional place right now is an understatement. And it is not an overstatement to say that Ranchi gets whatever attention it does mostly because it produced Dhoni.

For the moment, between Ranchi and Dhoni, the series itself has taken a bit of a backseat. England, of course, will know that their bowlers have taken a battering, a good part of it from Dhoni himself, in both the previous ODIs in Rajkot and Kochi. While their batsmen managed to just outdo India's in the first ODI, they fell woefully short in the second, against swing and spin alike. The Kochi loss bore traces of the old England and why they have lost 17 of their previous 20 ODIs in India - unable to control the rampaging home batsmen and unable to tackle the sticky local conditions.

England already know that this is not exactly the India side of old, which was extremely difficult to overcome on home soil. The personnel, especially the batsmen, might not have changed drastically, but times certainly have for Dhoni and his team.

Form guide
(Most recent first)
India WLWLL
England LWLWW
In the spotlight
Thousands lined the route from the Birsa Munda airport to the team hotel in Ranchi to catch a glimpse of MS Dhoni, who has said he wasn't expecting such a tremendous reception, and felt "humbled". Dhoni is one of the very few India cricketers to come somewhat close to Sachin Tendulkar in terms of popularity and adulation, as well as in his ability to shut himself off from it all. There is no doubt he could feel overwhelmed when he walks out to the middle in the city he grew up in. There is also no doubt that he won't allow his game to be affected by the emotions of the thousands who will be screaming out his name from the stands.
Kevin Pietersen is in some form. His magnificent 186 on a Mumbai turner proved that last November and the way he walked down the pitch and hit balls from off to leg in Rajkot and Kochi reinforces the case. But both those knocks have been terminated in the forties. Pietersen can't be denied for too long.

Team news
Tim Bresnan missed the Kochi ODI with a niggle and, if fit, should return in place of Chris Woakes. Will England persist with Jade Dernbach? The fast bowler got the wicket of Dhoni in Rajkot and had kept India in check in the batting Powerplay before he and his bag of variations fell apart at the death.
England (possible) 1 Alastair Cook (capt), 2 Ian Bell, 3 Kevin Pietersen, 4 Eoin Morgan, 5 Joe Root, 6 Craig Kieswetter (wk), 7 Samit Patel, 8 Tim Bresnan, 9 James Tredwell, 10 Jade Dernbach/Stuart Meaker, 11 Steven Finn

Amid all the local excitement, Dhoni was hit on the right thumb while batting against the bowling coach Joe Dawes in the nets. That was the end of his practice as he received ice treatment, but he is expected to be fit to play. With Shami Ahmed not doing badly at all in the four overs he got in Kochi, India can be expected to stick to a winning combination.

India (possible) 1 Gautam Gambhir, 2 Ajinkya Rahane, 3 Virat Kohli, 4 Yuvraj Singh, 5 Suresh Raina, 6 MS Dhoni (capt & wk), 7 Ravindra Jadeja, 8 R Ashwin, 9 Bhuvneshwar Kumar, 10 Ishant Sharma, 11 Shami Ahmed.

Pitch and conditions
The Jharkhand State Cricket Association stadium has hosted just two first-class games, both of which were drawn. The curator has been quoted as saying he expects the side batting first to make around 350 on the "sporting wicket". Winter has started to wind down in the east of the country, with Jharkhand experiencing milder weather over the past few days. The curator does not expect dew to be a major factor. A light drizzle is forecast for later in the evening.
Stats and trivia
Before Rajkot, the last time England beat India in India in an ODI was in April 2006, in Ranchi's neighbouring city of Jamshedpur.
Ranchi will become India's 42nd ODI venue.
Quotes
"Very high marks, let's say nine out of ten. I haven't given a perfect ten because even the best can be improved ... the good players can become even better, so also stadiums and facilities."
MS Dhoni rates the new stadium in his hometown
Sauce
 

AlwaysGreen

Post Whore
Messages
51,460
Wrong, Dhoni fired exactly once (in the final) and that was after Gambhir threw away what should have been a century. The in-form Yuvraj was supposed to come in when Dhoni did, MSD just came in and stole the limelight.

He's a decent limited overs batsman, but don't forget he plays a ridiculous amount of games on Asian pitches.

So so a match winning innings in the final of a World Cup isn't winning your team the World Cup? :lol::lol::lol:

Wrong.
 

vvvrulz

Coach
Messages
13,629
So so a match winning innings in the final of a World Cup isn't winning your team the World Cup? :lol::lol::lol:

Wrong.

His solitary innings was a good one but everyone forgets he didn't even top score. Gambhir/Kohli had already set up the win.

Firing in a single innings in a two month tournament isn't winning a world cup, it was Sachin, Yuvraj and Zaheer that mainly did the business.
 

AlwaysGreen

Post Whore
Messages
51,460
OK. So we'll dismiss gilly's innings in the '07 WC final as well by that logic. Without Dhoni India would not have won the final.
 

vvvrulz

Coach
Messages
13,629
OK. So we'll dismiss gilly's innings in the '07 WC final as well by that logic. Without Dhoni India would not have won the final.

Who said anything about dismissing Gilchrist's innings? He contributed throughout that world cup and that innings almost single handedly propped up the Australian total.

Dhoni made half the runs Gilly did comparing world cups, came in with the match already well set and did what Yuvraj would have likely done anyway against some mild Sri Lankan bowling. Dhoni played a good 91 but that innings is overrated, and I cannot agree that 'he won the world cup'. One single supporting innings doesn't win a world cup.
 

Horrie Is God

First Grade
Messages
8,073
KP gawne..

Actually 2 quick wickets and all of a sudden it's game on..

India going through the poms like a dodgy vindaloo ATM..
 

AlwaysGreen

Post Whore
Messages
51,460
Who said anything about dismissing Gilchrist's innings? He contributed throughout that world cup and that innings almost single handedly propped up the Australian total.

Dhoni made half the runs Gilly did comparing world cups, came in with the match already well set and did what Yuvraj would have likely done anyway against some mild Sri Lankan bowling. Dhoni played a good 91 but that innings is overrated, and I cannot agree that 'he won the world cup'. One single supporting innings doesn't win a world cup.

I'm sorry Mrs Yurav I didn't realise that you had an invested interest in the matter.
 

Hallatia

Referee
Messages
26,433
was reading some stats on Dhoni which suggest what Cook says about him being the best at what he does in ODIs

Dhoni's success formula in ODIs
His tendency to hit the ball straight, and his ability to play the waiting game, have been the keys to his superb run as an ODI batsman in the last 20 months
S Rajesh
January 19, 2013

Plenty has gone wrong for MS Dhoni in the last 20 months: India have been thumped in overseas Tests, and then lost some more at home too; his captaincy moves have been questioned; and his batting form in Tests has been pretty ordinary - 958 runs in 33 innings at 33.03 - and those stats were propped up by home runs against New Zealand and West Indies. There's one aspect of his game, though, that has remained untouched by all these recent debacles - his ODI batting has been quite spectacular recently, even if all his runs haven't led to victories.

Since the end of the 2011 World Cup, Dhoni has played 27 ODI innings, scored 1166 runs, and averaged 83.28 at a strike rate of 92.39. The average has been helped along by 13 not-outs, but even allowing for that, these are amazing numbers: in these 27 innings he has gone past 50 on 11 occasions, and scored a century when coming in to bat at 29 for 5 in seaming conditions against a potent Pakistan attack. He has guided the team when wickets have fallen around him, consolidated during the middle stages of the innings, and been there during the slog overs, performing each role to perfection.

There has been criticism about him batting too far down the order at Nos. 6 or 7 - he has batted higher only three times during this period - but it can also be argued that he has given the specialist batsmen in the team the best opportunity to build their innings. That he has been left with so much to do is a damning indictment of the lack of form of the top-order batsmen. In these 30 matches that Dhoni has played, he has scored 16.38% of bat runs scored by all Indian batsmen, a pretty high percentage for someone who bats outside the top five in the 50-over format.

Dhoni is one of 11 batsmen to score more than 1000 ODI runs during this period, and while his average is easily the highest, only Suresh Raina has a higher strike rate among these 11.

Batsmen who have scored 1000+ ODI runs since May 2011
Batsman|Innings|Runs|Average|Strike rate|100s/ 50s
MS Dhoni|27|1166|83.28|92.39|1/ 10
Virat Kohli|41|1997|55.47 |9.79|8/ 8
Alastair Cook|32|1355|46.72|85.59|4/ 9
Kumar Sangakkara|44|1751|41.69|75.15|3/ 11
Gautam Gambhir|30|1098|37.86|83.30|2/ 9
Suresh Raina|40|1183|35.84|94.94|0/ 10
Mahela Jayawardene|43|1426|34.78|81.67|1/ 12
Mohammad Hafeez|35|1176|34.58|72.19|3/ 6
Tillakaratne Dilshan|48|1500|33.33|81.92|4/ 7
Dinesh Chandimal|43|1215|32.83|74.53|1/ 9
Upul Tharanga|38|1044|28.21|73.10|1/ 9
The table below demonstrates how cleverly Dhoni paces his innings in an ODI. He has often spoken about the importance of not going for big shots too early in the innings, and of holding back the charge till as late as possible; the numbers below show he practises what he preaches. In the 419 balls he has played during the first 30 overs of an innings, Dhoni has scored only 245, a run rate of 3.50 per overs. He has played out 250 dot balls during this period (60% of the total deliveries he faced), but has been dismissed only three times. Most of his runs in this time have come in singles. The break-up reads thus: 130 ones, 23 twos, and a three, with only 66 runs coming in fours or sixes.

Between overs 30 and 40, his run rate goes up, but not by all that much, to 4.05 per over. Out of 367 deliveries, he has played out 210 dots (57%), and has still scored mostly in singles and twos (119 and 14), with only 88 runs coming in fours or sixes. Between the 41st and 45th overs, the dot-ball percentage drops to 42 (97 out of 229), while the scoring rate also goes up to very nearly a run a ball. However, even during this period he has generally resisted the temptation to cut loose.

It's only in the last five overs that he has completely broken the shackles, striking the ball to all parts and scoring at nearly 11 runs per over. In this phase of innings, 60% of his runs have come in fours or sixes, and his dot-ball percentage drops to 22. It can be argued that he sometimes leaves the onslaught for too late, but Dhoni has the numbers to back his method.

Dhoni and the art of pacing an ODI innings (since May 2011)
Overs|Runs|Balls|Dismissals|Average|Run rate|4s/ 6s
0-30|245|419|3|81.67|3.50|12/ 3
30.1-40|247|367|5|49.50|4.03|16/ 4
40.1-45|227|229|2|113.50|5.94|14/ 7
45.1-50|447|247|4|111.75|10.85|43/ 16
153535.jpg

Dhoni's wagon wheel shows he has scored plenty of runs in front of the wicket © ESPNcricinfo Ltd

Dhoni's scoring methods also indicate he has worked out his percentages well. Of the 1166 runs he has scored since the last World Cup, 810 have come in front of the wicket (nearly 70%), while 334 have been scored in the V between mid-off and mid-on. On the other hand, he has scored only 86 in the V behind the wicket - between third man and fine leg - which shows his preference for playing with the full face of the bat, rather than attempting cute angles. He has also struck more than 50% of his sixes (16 out of 30) in the V between long-on and long-off, with 12 more coming in the midwicket region. (See wagon-wheel graphic.)

His scoring patterns against different types of bowlers also shows his inclination to play the percentages. Against right-arm spin, Dhoni has scored at only 3.88 runs per over, but he hasn't been dismissed even once. He has played some high-quality offspinners during this period - Saeed Ajmal (36 runs off 77 balls), Mohammad Hafeez (48 off 72) and Graeme Swann (77 off 99) being the main ones - and Dhoni has been sensible enough to respect their skills, preserving his wicket so that he is around to take advantage of other, weaker bowlers. (It's an approach that a batsman like Virender Sehwag would do well to adopt.)

Against left-arm spin, too, Dhoni has been pretty circumspect, scoring 40 from 70 balls off Xavier Doherty - who is also the only spinner to dismiss him in ODIs during this period - and 13 from 27 off Rangana Herath. Against Samit Patel, whose skills as a left-arm spinner aren't in the top league, Dhoni has scored more freely, taking 59 off 58. His overall scoring rate against spin is also relatively low because spinners bowl primarily in the middle overs, when Dhoni's main focus is usually on preserving his wicket.

The quicker bowlers have gone for more runs, though right-arm seamers have also dismissed him 13 times. Tim Bresnan has dismissed Dhoni three times - the only bowler to do so - but has also gone for 99 runs in 79 balls (7.51 runs per over). Jade Dernbach has conceded 95 off 100, but has dismissed Dhoni twice, while Lasith Malinga's two wickets have cost him 68 off just 53 balls. The bowler who has struggled the most against Dhoni is Steven Finn, going for 85 from 59 balls, without ever dismissing him.

Most fast bowlers will fancy their chances against Dhoni in Tests, especially overseas, but in ODIs Dhoni has tackled them pretty effectively. Batting outside Asia remains a tricky issue for Dhoni - he averages only 33.13 in chases outside Asia, compared to 63.89 in Asia - but given his current form, he is India's best batting bet in ODIs regardless of the conditions.

Dhoni against each type of bowler in ODIs since May 2011
Bowler type|Runs|Balls|Dismissals|Average|Run rate|4s/ 6s
Right-arm pace|757|713|13|58.23|6.37|73/ 15
Right-arm spin|200|309|0|-|3.88|2/ 9
Left-arm spin|113|156|1|113.00|4.34|1/ 3
Left-arm pace|96|84|0|-|6.85|9/ 3
Sauce
 
Last edited:

Latest posts

Top