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5th Test: England v India at The Oval Sept 7-11 2018

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3,915
Given its a dead rubber and England still have holes in their top order wouldn't it have been the perfect time to pick Rory Burns?
They could drop Rashid (who had done nothing) move Jennings to 3 for 1 test and put Burns in now. Which would be better than debuting him against Sri Lanka in Sri Lanka later on.
 

ANTiLAG

First Grade
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8,014
Ali is not a front line bowler/spinner unless you think averaging 40 with the ball is enough to be the sole spinner on a deck expected to be dry. A front line spinner could be usefull, though wish it wasn't Rashid

Well this just isn't the full story. Moeen averages 39, Rashid averages 41. So because one isn't good enough, you play two duds? Strange logic Parra.

But, Moeen averages 31.6 in England. Moeen has taken 106/142 wickets at home, that's 74% of his wicket. And yes, this is good enough to be the sole front-line spinner and 5th bowler after his return last test. It is more than what is needed. Moeen did well in his test back because of the footmarks to right handers (helped by England having so many lhb and Sharma bowling around the wicket so often). That isn't going to offer a leggie anything! Sure a leftie could bat, but Rashid struggles to put revs on the ball and Dhawan is likely to tonk him. The new ball is better used with the swing bowlers.

Now what has Rashid done? Averaged 32.4 this series? No real runs to think of in the winning games (though he wagged a bit in the lost test).

Last test, Root clearly favoured Moeen over Rashid before Moeen started bagging victims. Root has begrudgingly bowled Rashid for most the series when he was the 5th option. Since Moeen's return, Rashid is the 6th option!

Now if they're wanting to keep Rashid warm for Sri Lanka, that's one thing. But say that is what they're doing, and besides, I think Lankans will get the better of him like most do.

Besides, doing what SA still do (bar Maharaj) and the great WI did is still an option, when you don't have the spinners nor the runs in the batting, don't pretend that you do. Just play your best team, without 2, 3 or even any spinners. SA dropped Shamsi heading into a dustbowl!

Rashid has been a passenger all series. But unlike those contributing big time to England wins - he gets a full series?!
 
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TheParraboy

Moderator
Staff member
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68,409
Well this just isn't the full story. Moeen averages 39, Rashid averages 41. So because one isn't good enough, you play two duds? Strange logic Parra.


like I said previously would have preferred someone other than Rashid, Good decision to have 2 spinners though ;)

again, having only one as your front line spinner, who bats in the top order, and 5 seamers on a dry deck, not a good mix. Credit to the poms for not doing that

any case lets see how this test plays out eh?

poms 0/36
 

ANTiLAG

First Grade
Messages
8,014
like I said previously would have preferred someone other than Rashid, Good decision to have 2 spinners though ;)

again, having only one as your front line spinner, who bats in the top order, and 5 seamers on a dry deck, not a good mix. Credit to the poms for not doing that

Again, nonsense. It is in no way a good decision because the player is Rashid. It is stupid. Just like it was last test. Sticking to a formula that ignores the conditions and the players over the available talent to form an XI is just utter stupidity imo. Murali or Warne are not options, Rashid is.

When the team is already playing 6 bowlers, and is short on runs, and the ball is swinging, 2 spinners is not a concern. Just play the best spinner even if he bats in the top order (really don't get your attempted relevance here at all) and make sure the best 6th bowling option is the best batting option.

It isn't like Woakes doesn't swing it in England - where swing has been king all series. And it isn't like Rashid is as likely to score a century as Woakes. England needs runs, not some 6th option leggies when the footmarks favour Moeen vs India.

You seem to want to suggest that Rashid is the better and more threatening bowler than Moeen in England simply because he is less of a batsman (that's fallacial - the batting and bowling skill levels are independent when simply assessing bowling), but there is nothing to support your theory. At all. And all indications from Joe Root beg to differ if you want to go against stats as well. He'd rather Moeen bowl into the footmarks than Rashid bowl his fulltosses.

England has now dropped a red hot in form motm in Curran and Woakes this series, and kept Rashid 'the passenger' all series. For what? It may pay dividends this test, but even if it does, he has a worse strike rate than Curran and Woakes for their contributions so far for games played. And who's to say Woakes wouldn't have done better?

India - have gone with 4 bowlers and one spinner (dropped Ashwin), England have 6 bowlers and 2 spinners (1 of whom was Motm last game with 9 wickets).

Looks like the wrong opening bat is retiring.
 
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ANTiLAG

First Grade
Messages
8,014
Poms selecting Rashid supports my theory :wink:

No - it really doesn't. If Joe Root bowls Rashid before Moeen, that just might. But not if Moeen then bowls for longer.

Either way - you're stuck with Moeen still having the superior career and in England record, and this series record as a bowler alone.

The message for Rashid is - if you're going to be a specialist bowler, bowl better than Moeen.

Else its back to Tommy's dilemma, where the frontliners are worse at their frontline skill than the bits and pieces players who also bring a bit of a second skill as well. Because that is England's reality right now. Their specialist batsmen and 'specialist spinner' comparatively suck more at their preferred skills than their allrounder equivalents. Hence 6 bowlers and 2 wicket keepers (was three when Pope played).

England is short on quality batsmen and top level spin bowler better than Moeen. That is their reality. What do they have - is a ton of fair quality allrounders (ball or wk). But they need runs. Not wickets. Their allrounders are outscoring the batsmen, all the batsmen - even Root. And they're taking wickets.

Rashid is doing neither this series. He's basically Jennings with a tan and a beard.
 
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Eelectrica

Referee
Messages
21,134
Cook and Ali getting decent runs. Not much after those two. Even a rare failure from Curren.
7/198. After looking solid at 1/133.
 
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ANTiLAG

First Grade
Messages
8,014
Shit, when I fell asleep on the lounge the Poms were 1/120 odd and cruising along.

They weren't really cruising along, though? Cook and Ali were playing and missing a lot. Ball was doing a lot.

Bumrah, Shami and Sharma I bet wish they could stay in England and keep using the Dukes ball.

Gives any pie chucker a chance if they just present seam up.

What is impressive for me is how effective Jadeja was. India have stacked the batting, playing only 4 bowlers and dropping Pandya (which I thought they should do all series)

24 overs, day 1 in England, 2/57. That's outstanding - and must reasonably be exactly what Kohli ideally wanted, if not more than.

So if this Vihani debutant is any good, Pandya's value to the Indian test team which I question outside of places like Australia, is really up for grabs. I see Pandya's value on flat Australian wickets which just crush fast bowlers with easy batting conditions, which also then brings his hit through the line batting style into the fold.
 

Eelectrica

Referee
Messages
21,134
Rashid done for a well made 15. Actually that makes him one of top scorers for England this innings.

Buttler might as well go the tonk now. Broad and Anderson ain't sticking around.
 

ANTiLAG

First Grade
Messages
8,014
Rashid done for a well made 15. Actually that makes him one of top scorers for England this innings.

Buttler might as well go the tonk now. Broad and Anderson ain't sticking around.
Haha - got a life on 9 for mine but VK had already used the reviews.

Thanks for update - I'll switch back for Butlercaspades.
 
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