A leopard never changes his spots.

[Reek_Havoc]

Everytime we miss a halfback, I see the same old sheet. The first few sets... Benji acts as a halfback(first receiver) and then on the 4th and 5th tackes Farah will more often than not will be the 7 (first receiver). So probably the Tigers most attacking weapon from dummy half is redundant/lost on those key last tackles cos farah is playing 1st receiver. I f**king hate that. Farah tries to do too much.

 

[madunit]

You are a deadset spastic. You've just got no idea.

lol wanker.

While you're explaining to me how our halves work, please do it to Sheens and Royce. They've said numerous times and as recently as when discussing Tuiaki's return that our halves play left and right. It's obvious this is the case as well.

learn to read you muppet. Where did I say anything about us playing (or not) left and right? I didn't.

How did Benji or Morris' game change when Sheens changed them from wearing 7 and 6 to 6 and 7? They didn't. If you honestly believe they did then you're got less of an idea than I thought.

Again, learn to read. I'm not saying their game did change, I'm saying it needed to. f**k me, you come on here and call me a spastic and then you completely fail in every aspect of comprehension.

Benji has been our main play maker since Prince left. Do you think our team has run off the back of Morris, Lui and Moltzen organising us, particularly when they've chopped an changed so much? Wouldn't that make Benji our halfback? According to you it does.

Halfbacks do more than freaky flick passes ok. They have to ORGANISE a lot more than that, as I previously said. Let me guess, you saw me calling you a muppet and didn't read anything else in my post.

Wearing or playing in 7 doesn't give Benji more responsbility, unless you've got someone like Ayshford playing the other side of the ruck and not doing anything. Our team is principally run by Farah, with Benji having a major role as well. The difference between Canberra with Benji at '6' and the Dragons with Benji at '7' was Farah and not having anyone doing something on the other side of the ruck.

But wearing the 7 should make him play with more responsibility, because that is whats required at halfback, which is again, what I was saying.

We lost on the weekend because Benji has been playing sh*t for weeks, not because he was playing halfback. The difference was Farah's involvement and the quality of the opposition. Ayshford would have been more involved cutting up fruit for half time.

Ayshford was hardly involved because there was no halfback supporting him. We lost on the weekend because there was no halfback. You need a halfback for direction, organisation, playmaking, stability and responsibility. Of those 5 things, Benji at his best delivers only 1 of those. Which is fine if you're at five-eighth, but not at halfback.

I wouldn't have thought you would need to resort to using lines such as not having played the game before. That's up there with 'you're not a real fan'. Regardless of whether I've played or not, it doesn't take a genius to work out that we play our halves left and right, especially when the two guys running our team have said so numerous times.

I never said a f**king word about our halves playing left and right. Do you read any posts on here other than your own you mong? Usually I wouldn't bother bringing up anything about playing the game before, but in the case, it is almost imperitive to this argument, if you want to see what a real halfback does on the field, the best way is to actually be on there with them.

Benji playing his normal game at '7' isn't detrimental to our game, it's Benji playing his sh*t game that is detrimental to our chances of winning.

And Benji always plays a sh*t game at halfback.

And that, my little deadsh*t moron, is no coincidence.

 

[madunit]

Great contribution...

Finally a post which you read. full marks.

Since you've proven yourself to be a little lost, I'll spell it out to you.

How would you know if I'm lost, you've completely misconstrewed my previous post in a way not even a pissed off woman could.

The numbers our halves wear don't mean a thing. They play left and right. How did Morris' and Benji's game change when they swapped numbers?

Yet Benji miraculously always played sh*t and we always lost when he was wearing the 7. That is no coincidence.

Our backrowers play left, right and centre. This is another thing Sheens has said a number of times, particularly when he's played Payten at lock.

There's no drama with that. They aren't organisers or playmakers etc.

Lets look at this years games for examples. When we had Fulton, Ellis and Heighington playing we had Ellis playing left, Heighington playing tight and Fulton playing right. When we've played either Payten or Flanagan in 11, they've played tight and Heighington went and played left, yet still wore 13.

who gives a sh*t, they're all back rowers.

Please continue to tell me that our halves play first and second receiver and that their numbers mean anything and that the numbers our backrowers wear mean anything, you're doing so well.

Firstly, show where I said any of that you muppet.

Okay, I'll type this in the vain hope that you will read it.

What our Back rowers do means f**k all

I never said anything about halves playing first or second receiver etc.

You have the comprehension skills of a ball sack

 

[Tigers_are_Pro]

The only teams which play genuine left and right halves are the Storm and Dragons because they get their structure from their hookers in Priddis and Smith. We don't to an extent because Farah plays multiple roles, therefore he pops up anywhere, Benji pops up anywhere and Lui is the only person who's fairly stable on the right. As evidenced last night, Benji played around the ruck pretty much all game bar the last tackles where he shifted a couple wide or either Farah shifted a couple wide.

 

[Magpie Nick]

lol wanker.
learn to read you muppet. Where did I say anything about us playing (or not) left and right? I didn't.

You didn't, but you did say we play our halves as halfback and five-eighth, which would require them playing as a first a second receiver, particularly if the halfback's role is dominated by organising. It's clear you're using that line as a cop out. If you agreed with the idea of playing our halves left and right you wouldn't be trying to preach the idea of Benji needing to organise everything when playing half. When it's clear as day how we play our halves, what are you watching? It's no wonder you've got no idea what you're talking about.

Again, learn to read. I'm not saying their game did change, I'm saying it needed to. f**k me, you come on here and call me a spastic and then you completely fail in every aspect of comprehension.

Why would Benji need to change his game when playing 6 or 7 when it's clear as day that we don't play our halves as half and five-eighth? Benji has been the chief organiser in our team for four years, don't try and tell me, or anyone for that fact, that Morris, Lui and Moltzen have been the main men in our halves.

Halfbacks do more than freaky flick passes ok. They have to ORGANISE a lot more than that, as I previously said. Let me guess, you saw me calling you a muppet and didn't read anything else in my post.

But wearing the 7 should make him play with more responsibility, because that is whats required at halfback, which is again, what I was saying.

Benji has more responsibility in the halves than anyone he partners. Again, you cannot seriously believe that Morris, Moltzen and Lui were more dominate or more organising than Benji. Not one of those blokes could organise anything more successfully than Benji and you know it.

Ayshford was hardly involved because there was no halfback supporting him. We lost on the weekend because there was no halfback. You need a halfback for direction, organisation, playmaking, stability and responsibility. Of those 5 things, Benji at his best delivers only 1 of those. Which is fine if you're at five-eighth, but not at halfback.

Ayshford was hardly involved because the bloke is utterly sh*t. He's one of the simplest footballers to ever pull on our jersey. We lost on the weekend because the other team was simply better than us and Benji had to do more than he did the week before, which was also going to be a disaster considering his rubbish form lately.

Again, do you seriously believe that Morris, Moltzen and Lui provided our team with any direction and organisation let alone more than Benji?

I never said a f**king word about our halves playing left and right. Do you read any posts on here other than your own you mong? Usually I wouldn't bother bringing up anything about playing the game before, but in the case, it is almost imperitive to this argument, if you want to see what a real halfback does on the field, the best way is to actually be on there with them.

Using the 'have you played the game' line is a sign of struggle. Especially when the vast, vast majority of people that read this forum have played before, including me.

A real halfback does organise, direct and provide stability for the team, when the team plays a real halfback. We don't. We haven't since Prince left. Get that into your head. Stop thinking that the bloke who wears 7 for us organises the team.

And Benji always plays a sh*t game at halfback.

And that, my little deadsh*t moron, is no coincidence.

It's only one game and hardly indicative of Benji's form at halfback, but I'll direct you to the Titans game of 2008. Benji tore the heart out of the Titans from 'halfback'.

A lot of the reason we have a sh*t record with Benji wearing 7 is due to the rest of the team. When he was at 7, we had Morris at 6. I shouldn't need to tell you how much of a failure having Morris as one of our play makers was. During the time Benji partnered Morris, he either led or was right up there in the league with the leading line breaks and assists and try assists. That to me doesn't say that Benji is sh*t, it says the blokes around him are hopeless, which they were and some still are.

Benji playing 'halfback' isn't the reason our team loses. Benji plays 'halfback' when we have a load of injuries, generally meaning the few good players we have are either injured or playing with loads of nuffies. Our halfback doesn't organise our team, our halfback plays second fiddle to both Benji and Farah, you cannot honestly think the bloke wearing 7 has more responsibility than those two.

 

[Magpie Nick]

Finally a post which you read. full marks.

How would you know if I'm lost, you've completely misconstrewed my previous post in a way not even a pissed off woman could. Yet Benji miraculously always played sh*t and we always lost when he was wearing the 7. That is no coincidence.

There's no drama with that. They aren't organisers or playmakers etc. who gives a sh*t, they're all back rowers.


Firstly, show where I said any of that you muppet.

Okay, I'll type this in the vain hope that you will read it.

What our Back rowers do means f**k all

I never said anything about halves playing first or second receiver etc.

You have the comprehension skills of a ball sack

It's hard to tell what you're actually saying or where you're coming from with "lol", but it's clear that you didn't agree with what I said yet you've put nothing up to say why.

Regarding Benji always playing sh*t at 'halfback' - maybe you could explain why he was at the top of the league for try and line breaks and assists when playing half? Please explain to everyone how Benji and Morris' games changed when they swapped numbers.

You're right, the numbers our backrowers wear doesn't mean anything. Why then have you disagreed with the idea of numbers meaning something? If you don't, what's the point of writing "lol"?

It's clear you don't agree with the idea of our halves playing left and right, this conversation wouldn't be happening if you did. According to your theory of our halfback having to organise and direct the team, it would mean that they play first and second receiver, unless you're saying that our halfback doesn't play first receiver or on one side of the field. Why the f**k are you saying our halves do?

 

[hybrid_tiger]

All is saved gentleman - we have Fitzy in the #7 this week.

 

[innsaneink]

Nick is correct.

 

[blackandwhite]

Everytime we miss a halfback, I see the same old sheet. The first few sets... Benji acts as a halfback(first receiver) and then on the 4th and 5th tackes Farah will more often than not will be the 7 (first receiver). So probably the Tigers most attacking weapon from dummy half is redundant/lost on those key last tackles cos farah is playing 1st receiver. I f**king hate that. Farah tries to do too much.

Mr Havoc is correct.

 

[madunit]

Benji has won 8 of 24 games he has played at halfback. Thats 33%

Compared to the 55 wins from 88 games he's at five eighth paints a bloody conclusive picture.

As much as Nick believes that Benji and the team don't play any differently when Benji is at halfback, the stats paint a completely different picture.

Benji played 14 of 23 games at halfback last year

Tigers won 5 and lost 9 in that time
Benji switched to five-eighth and Tigers won 7 and lost 2

Most of Benji's try assists andother associated stats came when he moved to five-eighth.

As for the crap about the backrowers. That is a completely different argument completely unrelated to what you initially started on about Nick.

Back Rowers at all clubs do essentially the same thing. It's like saying the numbers on the back of props means nothing.

Halves are a completely different kettle of fish and their roles are far more important and integral to a team than any back rower has ever been.

As much as we may very well play left and right, the crux of the issue is that this style is detrimental to our game, and we, like every other team in the competition, now and in the entire history, need a decent halfback who is reponsible and can guide a team around the park. Without guidance in the middle of the field, you have no direction, and no direction leads to no consistency, no reliability and no premierships.

Now with that in mind, I can guarantee you that Sheens knows this, thus, as much as the Tigers halves may play left and right, he always has some form of extra responsibility placed onm the halfback to direct the team around, and rightfully so.

This extra responsibility is one Benji can't handle. A 33% success rate playing at halfback shows that, moreso when compared to his rate when playing at five-eighth.

So saying Benji plays no differently at 7 to when he plays at 6 may be right, but he has extra pressure on him when he plays at 7, which he can't cope with which inevitably leads to losses and Benji putting in sh*tty performances.

Benji has to play differently when at halfback. He knows it, everyone knows it. Problem is he can't.

He's a very good number 6 but he isn't a halfbacks arsehole.

 

[westie]

Benji has won 8 of 24 games he has played at halfback. Thats 33%

Compared to the 55 wins from 88 games he's at five eighth paints a bloody conclusive picture.

As much as Nick believes that Benji and the team don't play any differently when Benji is at halfback, the stats paint a completely different picture.

Benji played 14 of 23 games at halfback last year

Tigers won 5 and lost 9 in that time
Benji switched to five-eighth and Tigers won 7 and lost 2

Most of Benji's try assists andother associated stats came when he moved to five-eighth.

As for the crap about the backrowers. That is a completely different argument completely unrelated to what you initially started on about Nick.

Back Rowers at all clubs do essentially the same thing. It's like saying the numbers on the back of props means nothing.

Halves are a completely different kettle of fish and their roles are far more important and integral to a team than any back rower has ever been.

As much as we may very well play left and right, the crux of the issue is that this style is detrimental to our game, and we, like every other team in the competition, now and in the entire history, need a decent halfback who is reponsible and can guide a team around the park. Without guidance in the middle of the field, you have no direction, and no direction leads to no consistency, no reliability and no premierships.

Now with that in mind, I can guarantee you that Sheens knows this, thus, as much as the Tigers halves may play left and right, he always has some form of extra responsibility placed onm the halfback to direct the team around, and rightfully so.

This extra responsibility is one Benji can't handle. A 33% success rate playing at halfback shows that, moreso when compared to his rate when playing at five-eighth.

So saying Benji plays no differently at 7 to when he plays at 6 may be right, but he has extra pressure on him when he plays at 7, which he can't cope with which inevitably leads to losses and Benji putting in sh*tty performances.

Benji has to play differently when at halfback. He knows it, everyone knows it. Problem is he can't.

He's a very good number 6 but he isn't a halfbacks arsehole.

You've missed the point again Sadunit. It's not the number on his back, it's the guy next to him. At the start he tried to do too much (as a traditional half), but no one could accuse him of that lately. If Benji is at 6, it means our regular bloke is there, if he's not, it means we have injuries and are struggling. I've never seen a dude get stats so incredibly wrong.

 

[madunit]

But according to Nick, there is no one next to him, as they play different sides of the field and Benji plays the same game every time anyway.

The stats aren't wrong westie.

 

[madunit]

In 2009, when Benji played halfback, the five-eighths were:
John Morris - 12 times
Blake Ayshford - 2 times

The stats aren't wrong

 

[N.C.]

Stats don't lie - they tell you exactly what you ask them to.

What's the win/loss ratio with John Morris in the starting side - in any position? What's the win/loss ratio with John Morris coming off the bench?

What's the win/loss ration with Ayshford playing anywhere but centre?

I agree with what you are saying Madunit but I don't think it is as straightforward as you make out. Asking Benji to take on an organising role is like asking FarcedEddie to explain politics - he's pretty keen to give it a go because he saw someone do it once, but he really just doesn't get it. Regardless of where Benji plays on the park, if all the fiddly stuff is left to him then it just wont get done. Putting John Morris or Blake Ayshford beside him wont make him a better organiser, regardless of the number on his back.

But if you put Tim Moltzen in 6 and Benji Marshall in 7, would you expect the same outcome?

 

[madunit]

No. There are some repsonsibilites placed on a halfback which Benji cannot deal with.

Which is all I have been saying all along.

 

[N.C.]

I would, but only because I'd expect them to play exactly the same as if they swapped those numbers back again.

 

[Magpie Nick]

Wow, I didn't actually think you believed that Morris, Lui and Moltzen would try to assume a bigger role than Benji. Or would Sheens have them try to. It's astounding that you actually believe Benji hasn't been the main man in our halves since Prince left. If Benji cannot deal with the responsibilities of playing as a half, then I'm sure as hell that Morris, Moltzen and Lui can't and I'd be very surprised if you honestly thought so too.

Benji often plays sh*t when playing as our halfback because, like I said in the previous post, we stick some complete scarecrow there who cannot do anything at all, leading to Benji having to do absolutely everything, and, considering Benji's erratic form of late and generally poor form when the team is going poor, is always going to result in him looking bad as a half.

The stats I was referring to regarding Benji and try and line breaks and assists were coming from halfback. I couldn't tell you one stat about his time at five-eighth last year because no one mentioned them. However people did mention the fact that he was leading or at the top of the crucial categories while playing as our 7.

Regarding the backrowers' numbers being an entirely new point. Sort of. I was referring to our halves' and backrowers' numbers meaning nothing these days. The inclusion of backrowers in that point was more to explain that we play more than our halves in a non 'traditional' way. You've missed the idea on this one but hey, that's not surprising.

If you put Moltzen and Benji in opposite numbers, would I expect the same style of play? Absolutely. Benji is the main man in our halves and has been since Prince left. Moltzen and Lui have said a number of times they need a few games to get confident enough to try and overcall Benji. I wouldn't expect our dominant, controlling halfback to need a few games to overcall our five-eighth.

 

[madunit]

Wow, I didn't actually think you believed that Morris, Lui and Moltzen would try to assume a bigger role than Benji. Or would Sheens have them try to.

I never said or suggested that.

It's astounding that you actually believe Benji hasn't been the main man in our halves since Prince left.

I never said or suggested that.

If Benji cannot deal with the responsibilities of playing as a half, then I'm sure as hell that Morris, Moltzen and Lui can't and I'd be very surprised if you honestly thought so too.

Benji's performances at five-eighth are far superior to those when he's at half. Moltzen, Lui and yes, even Morris, have more of an idea how to direct a team from halfback than Benji ever has. Benji doesn't have an organisational bone in his football body. Blind Freddie can see that. His stronger performances at five-eighth help take the playmaking duties off the halfbacks, meaning all they need to do is organise the backs and essentially, pass the ball to Benji when he wants it.

Benji often plays sh*t when playing as our halfback because, like I said in the previous post, we stick some complete scarecrow there who cannot do anything at all, leading to Benji having to do absolutely everything, and, considering Benji's erratic form of late and generally poor form when the team is going poor, is always going to result in him looking bad as a half.

Last year he had Morris as his five-eighth for 12 of 14 games that Benji was at halfback. Morris who had played in the halves with the Tigers for 2 previous seasons.

The stats I was referring to regarding Benji and try and line breaks and assists were coming from halfback. I couldn't tell you one stat about his time at five-eighth last year because no one mentioned them. However people did mention the fact that he was leading or at the top of the crucial categories while playing as our 7.

I'll do my best to help you out here by trying to get these numbers together.

Regarding the backrowers' numbers being an entirely new point. Sort of. I was referring to our halves' and backrowers' numbers meaning nothing these days.

No. You said that the number on the backs of our halves mean nothing, when they clearly do. You brought up the backrowers thing as some sort of stupid link to try and catch me out, yet it was quite clearly that the two arguments are COMPLETELY unrelated.

The inclusion of backrowers in that point was more to explain that we play more than our halves in a non 'traditional' way.

Playing our halves in a non-traditional way has absolutely no relevance whatsoever to our backrowers positioning.

You've missed the idea on this one but hey, that's not surprising.

No. I'll give you credit on the other points as they have merit, it's just our difference of opinions on the matters, but on this point you were doing nothing but clutching at straws. poorly.

 

[Magpie Nick]

You didn't say that Morris, Moltzen or Lui were organising the team (until now, which in itself is astounding), but you said that our halfback needs to be the more controlling and dominant partner in the halves. It's ridiculous that you think this hasn't been Benji since the moment Prince left. I can't honestly believe that you actually think Morris, Moltzen and Lui have been our main men over the past few years, I'm convinced you're just saying that they've been the more dominant (by your definition of our halfback and you're admission of them being more skilled as a traditional half) to suit your argument. There's no way in hell that anyone is going to agree with you in thinking that Morris, Moltzen or Lui can organise our team better than Benji nor have they been since Prince left.

Benji has been the main man in our halves since Prince left. Your secondary play maker isn't the bloke who does the bulk of the organising and controlling, it's really not that hard to understand or see this is the case for our team.

"Numbers defining roles disappeared a few years ago, particularly in our case."

That is the direct quote where I referred to the numbers our players wear. Please point out where this only relates to our halves. If I was specifically referring to our halves I would have (and did previously) said so. The fact that I wrote that point on by itself also clearly says I wasn't referring just to our halves. And you said I struggled at comprehension.

 

[blackandwhite]

"Numbers defining roles disappeared a few years ago, particularly in our case."

OK I get it now.....7 = halfback or five-eighth and 6 = five-eighth or halfback and the hooker is sometimes 7 but never 6.

>>>>> Which one plays on the left again?

And 11 and 12 = 3 and 4....or is it 2 and 5...its not 6 and 7 is it ?

>>>>> Wait Can we still let No. 2 be winger ? Is No.2 the left or right winger ?