A message I sent to the Toulon Rugby Club

[dallymessenger]

Nevermind. There are a couple of brainwashed posters like him on this forum. I also pointed out the fact that the temple of RL in France was named after a WWII resistance hero and union boss.

There are also many sensible Aussie posters on here with whom it's possible to engage in a discussion.

if you are interested in a debate, can you explain to me why RU in france needed to run to the nazis for help?

why did your sport get RL banned?

couldnt it compete fairly?

please im really interested in a debate on why RL in france was banned because of scum which you support.

 

[Girondin]

if you are interested in a debate, can you explain to me why RU in france needed to run to the nazis for help?

why did your sport get RL banned?

couldnt it compete fairly?

please im really interested in a debate on why RL in france was banned because of scum which you support.

I guess you know the answers but vastly overstate the consequences. In short:
- the Nazis crushed us in 1940 and gave France a (loser's) choice: either a weak but autonomous French government, or direct Nazi administration. The most sensible choice was the former, which gave rise to "Vichy"
- the Vichy ideology wasn't nazism. It was of an extremely conservative nature. The closest would probably be the Franco regime in Spain
- as far as sports are concerned, the ideology translated into the following: sport should not mix with money. Therefore no sport should be professional
- as a result, all sports that were professional had to give up that status and were often asked to merge with other sports. Football had its comp completely restructured and dowgraded, clubs were forced to give up their professional sections. Tennis, badminton, table tennis and squash were forced to merge into a single federation.
- now, RL. Since its - very successful - inception in France in the 30s, RL prided itself in being professional. In light of the above, it obviously became a target for the Vichy sports minister. In this case, RL was asked to rejoin RU. The clubs and their assets were transferred to RU.
- as a result, no RL was played in France between 1942 and 1944

Some RU officials did have a lobbying role in getting RL banned. Unfortunately you've got that kind of sad individuals in any crisis situation. Blaming the RU community in general is ridiculous.

Now the consequences. On this board some of you seem to blame Vichy (and union) for the demise of RL in France. Very few leaguies in France say that. They got over it, just like football, tennis, table tennis did.
- re seizure of assets. Don't forget that the RL clubs were for the most part RU clubs who had switched allegiance to RL in the 30s, taking the "assets" with them. Plus those assets were not exactly a real estate empire.
- the vast majority of RL clubs reformed straight away when Vichy collapsed. The championship restarted as early as 1945
- the golden age of French RL was the 50s which puts the "Vichy killed League" rethorics in perspective. 300,000 people welcomed back the victorious French team from the 1951 tour of Australia. The RLWC was also a very popular event.

The real cause of RL's demise since the 60s is inept administration, lack of grass-roots work and lack of a regular international comp to rival the 5 Nations. RL had the upper hand until the 60s.

It's not for me to judge my own writings but this is a view that is shared by most French RL supporters.

 

[Taneroa]

if you are interested in a debate, can you explain to me why RU in france needed to run to the nazis for help?

why did your sport get RL banned?

couldnt it compete fairly?

please im really interested in a debate on why RL in france was banned because of scum which you support.

There is no debate to start with your stupid question ! but you 1st should learn about your own history before accusing ppl about facts that happened years ago !...many of us paid for the ignorance the stupidity and cowardness of others...this story repeats over and over everywhere, and Australia did not make an exception !

Each country has a dark side of it's history...and I don't think Britain and it's colony are in best place to give others some lessons !

http://www.blackwell-compass.com/subject/history/article_view?article_id=hico_articles_bsl028

http://www.blackwell-compass.com/subject/history/article_view?article_id=hico_articles_bpl164

I thought australian were keen on rugby...but it seems some like you prefer talking about nazism and are best on spreading insults, or glorifying past events ! ...

stay with your own opinion, there's no need to debate with an idiot !...:?

btw : France remains the most visited country in the world ! it seems more than 40 billion tourist p/year like to visit nazis !! like your compatriots ...

 

[Yngwie_70]

I guess you know the answers but vastly overstate the consequences. In short:
- the Nazis crushed us in 1940 and gave France a (loser's) choice: either a weak but autonomous French government, or direct Nazi administration. The most sensible choice was the former, which gave rise to "Vichy"
- the Vichy ideology wasn't nazism. It was of an extremely conservative nature. The closest would probably be the Franco regime in Spain
- as far as sports are concerned, the ideology translated into the following: sport should not mix with money. Therefore no sport should be professional
- as a result, all sports that were professional had to give up that status and were often asked to merge with other sports. Football had its comp completely restructured and dowgraded, clubs were forced to give up their professional sections. Tennis, badminton, table tennis and squash were forced to merge into a single federation.
- now, RL. Since its - very successful - inception in France in the 30s, RL prided itself in being professional. In light of the above, it obviously became a target for the Vichy sports minister. In this case, RL was asked to rejoin RU. The clubs and their assets were transferred to RU.
- as a result, no RL was played in France between 1942 and 1944

Some RU officials did have a lobbying role in getting RL banned. Unfortunately you've got that kind of sad individuals in any crisis situation. Blaming the RU community in general is ridiculous.

Now the consequences. On this board some of you seem to blame Vichy (and union) for the demise of RL in France. Very few leaguies in France say that. They got over it, just like football, tennis, table tennis did.
- re seizure of assets. Don't forget that the RL clubs were for the most part RU clubs who had switched allegiance to RL in the 30s, taking the "assets" with them. Plus those assets were not exactly a real estate empire.
- the vast majority of RL clubs reformed straight away when Vichy collapsed. The championship restarted as early as 1945
- the golden age of French RL was the 50s which puts the "Vichy killed League" rethorics in perspective. 300,000 people welcomed back the victorious French team from the 1951 tour of Australia. The RLWC was also a very popular event.

The real cause of RL's demise since the 60s is inept administration, lack of grass-roots work and lack of a regular international comp to rival the 5 Nations. RL had the upper hand until the 60s.

It's not for me to judge my own writings but this is a view that is shared by most French RL supporters.

Wow. Interesting post Girondin. I bet they wont be back because that is about as comprehensive as you can get. Well done and please let me re iterate that most Australians arent like the trolls who go on about Nazism. I look at the scenery in the south of France and know why SBW left.

 

[Razor]

- as a result, all sports that were professional had to give up that status and were often asked to merge with other sports. Football had its comp completely restructured and dowgraded, clubs were forced to give up their professional sections. Tennis, badminton, table tennis and squash were forced to merge into a single federation.

They got over it, just like football, tennis, table tennis did.

Tennis wasn't professional at the time. So mentioning them is pointless.

 

[Girondin]

Tennis wasn't professional at the time. So mentioning them is pointless.

Professionalism in tennis dates back to 1926. Obviously it took a long time for the old guard to accept it.

 

[flamin]

How arrogant does the Toulon boss come across:

Boudjellal seemed unperturbed by the threat of legal action.
"Our problem is: Is Williams under contract with another rugby union side? The answer is no," Boudjellal said.
"Therefore he's free to join with whoever he wants, he doesn't need a letter to leave."
http://news.smh.com.au/sport/bulldogs-get-one-up-on-sonny-bill-20080805-3q43.html

He sounds like the biggest jerk, dismissing rugby league as something inferior. I hope he gets what he deserves.

 

[Girondin]

How arrogant does the Toulon boss come across:

Boudjellal seemed unperturbed by the threat of legal action.
"Our problem is: Is Williams under contract with another rugby union side? The answer is no," Boudjellal said.
"Therefore he's free to join with whoever he wants, he doesn't need a letter to leave."
http://news.smh.com.au/sport/bulldogs-get-one-up-on-sonny-bill-20080805-3q43.html

He sounds like the biggest jerk, dismissing rugby league as something inferior. I hope he gets what he deserves.

Here he is during an improvised press conference fo the Aussie journalists yesterday.
http://www.rctoulon.com/actualite-f...boudjellal-repond-sur-sonny-bill-williams.php

He's clearly a of the self-satisfied sort, but he's a smart guy with a great business acumen. Nothing really offensive for RL here.

What he says about him granting a release to a South African player recently is true. Though that's his call and saying the Bulldogs should have done the same is a bit far-fetched.

 

[Razor]

Professionalism in tennis dates back to 1926. Obviously it took a long time for the old guard to accept it.

No a breakaway group formed by Jack Kramer paid players to play matches. It had no official recognition by any Government or other body. It was just a get-together every now and again. There was no hierarchy at all with event status constantly changing.

Same as gymnastics and figure skating are amateur sports still. However in both sports there is a break groups where they are paid. Same as tennis was, they aren't recognised and competitors in both the professional comps aren't able to compete in the Olympcis because they don't compete in a recognised competition.

I can also tell you now there was professional Union going on long before 1995, but those bodies were not recognised. And just like professional tennis at the time, was nothing more than a get-together.

 

[Girondin]

No a breakaway group formed by Jack Kramer paid players to play matches. It had no official recognition by any Government or other body.

Fair enough. Let's say the purpose of the Vichy crackdown on tennis was to make sure no French athletes would participate in such breakaway groups.

Agree re union being "shamateur" in France pre-1995.

 

[dallymessenger]

I guess you know the answers but vastly overstate the consequences. In short:
- the Nazis crushed us in 1940 and gave France a (loser's) choice: either a weak but autonomous French government, or direct Nazi administration. The most sensible choice was the former, which gave rise to "Vichy"
- the Vichy ideology wasn't nazism. It was of an extremely conservative nature. The closest would probably be the Franco regime in Spain
- as far as sports are concerned, the ideology translated into the following: sport should not mix with money. Therefore no sport should be professional
- as a result, all sports that were professional had to give up that status and were often asked to merge with other sports. Football had its comp completely restructured and dowgraded, clubs were forced to give up their professional sections. Tennis, badminton, table tennis and squash were forced to merge into a single federation.
- now, RL. Since its - very successful - inception in France in the 30s, RL prided itself in being professional. In light of the above, it obviously became a target for the Vichy sports minister. In this case, RL was asked to rejoin RU. The clubs and their assets were transferred to RU.
- as a result, no RL was played in France between 1942 and 1944

Some RU officials did have a lobbying role in getting RL banned. Unfortunately you've got that kind of sad individuals in any crisis situation. Blaming the RU community in general is ridiculous.

Now the consequences. On this board some of you seem to blame Vichy (and union) for the demise of RL in France. Very few leaguies in France say that. They got over it, just like football, tennis, table tennis did.
- re seizure of assets. Don't forget that the RL clubs were for the most part RU clubs who had switched allegiance to RL in the 30s, taking the "assets" with them. Plus those assets were not exactly a real estate empire.
- the vast majority of RL clubs reformed straight away when Vichy collapsed. The championship restarted as early as 1945
- the golden age of French RL was the 50s which puts the "Vichy killed League" rethorics in perspective. 300,000 people welcomed back the victorious French team from the 1951 tour of Australia. The RLWC was also a very popular event.

The real cause of RL's demise since the 60s is inept administration, lack of grass-roots work and lack of a regular international comp to rival the 5 Nations. RL had the upper hand until the 60s.

It's not for me to judge my own writings but this is a view that is shared by most French RL supporters.

if all professional sports were banned, why wasnt soccer?

why did some people in RU even push to get RL banned? why would someone think of taking advantage of a rival sport when the country was being occupied by a foreign power?

why did RU take away assets from RL? grounds, money, even jerseys were taken away?

why wasnt RL allowed to use the name rugby?

why wont the FFR pay compensation to the FRL for what they did?

anytime i think of RU in france, i can see the link between the nazis and their (RU) existance today. still if all you care about is union over justice, i suppose you dont really care.

 

[dallymessenger]

Wow. Interesting post Girondin. I bet they wont be back because that is about as comprehensive as you can get. Well done and please let me re iterate that most Australians arent like the trolls who go on about Nazism. I look at the scenery in the south of France and know why SBW left.

little wonder you ignored my post.

RU in france was built on the work of the nazis.

when the country was being invaded, some chose to fight, some chose to collaborate.

some people in union not only chose to collaborate, they thought to themselves, lets damage RL as much as we can because we cant compete with them on the field.

 

[dallymessenger]

There is no debate to start with your stupid question ! but you 1st should learn about your own history before accusing ppl about facts that happened years ago !...many of us paid for the ignorance the stupidity and cowardness of others...this story repeats over and over everywhere, and Australia did not make an exception !

Each country has a dark side of it's history...and I don't think Britain and it's colony are in best place to give others some lessons !

http://www.blackwell-compass.com/subject/history/article_view?article_id=hico_articles_bsl028

http://www.blackwell-compass.com/subject/history/article_view?article_id=hico_articles_bpl164

I thought australian were keen on rugby...but it seems some like you prefer talking about nazism and are best on spreading insults, or glorifying past events ! ...

stay with your own opinion, there's no need to debate with an idiot !...:?

btw : France remains the most visited country in the world ! it seems more than 40 billion tourist p/year like to visit nazis !! like your compatriots ...

so you agree the vichy banning of RL is a dark episode for union, good, this will be easier than i thought,

its a shameful and disgusting episode in a sport which many times is evil

 

[dallymessenger]

How arrogant does the Toulon boss come across:

Boudjellal seemed unperturbed by the threat of legal action.
"Our problem is: Is Williams under contract with another rugby union side? The answer is no," Boudjellal said.
"Therefore he's free to join with whoever he wants, he doesn't need a letter to leave."
http://news.smh.com.au/sport/bulldogs-get-one-up-on-sonny-bill-20080805-3q43.html

He sounds like the biggest jerk, dismissing rugby league as something inferior. I hope he gets what he deserves.

he is a comic book writer.

hes used to getting laughs from people

 

[dallymessenger]

with shameful episodes like the vichy banning of RL, you wonder how union manages to compete with RL at all.

indeed ive always believed that any time there is fair competition between the 2 sports, RL always wins.

RU then needs to cheat to survive or get back in the game

 

[Girondin]

if all professional sports were banned, why wasnt soccer?

why did some people in RU even push to get RL banned? why would someone think of taking advantage of a rival sport when the country was being occupied by a foreign power?

why did RU take away assets from RL? grounds, money, even jerseys were taken away?

why wasnt RL allowed to use the name rugby?

why wont the FFR pay compensation to the FRL for what they did?

anytime i think of RU in france, i can see the link between the nazis and their (RU) existance today. still if all you care about is union over justice, i suppose you dont really care.

The answers to you questions were in my post. But you stick with your dogmatic ideas. I guess it's a case of cognitive dissonance.

 

[dallymessenger]

The answers to you questions were in my post. But you stick with your dogmatic ideas. I guess it's a case of cognitive dissonance.

no they werent.

before you run off like a coward, which is typical for RU in france, why wasnt amateur RL allowed to be played during the war.

since only professional sports were banned (a lie anyway) why did the FFR not allow amateur and junior RL to be played in france.

were they that scared of competing with RL?
:lol:

 

[Girondin]

anytime i think of RU in france

I think you should just sit back and stop tormenting yourself with questions that even the most hardcore RL fans in France don't bother with ;-)

 

[Dragonwest]

How do you say ' I surrender ' in French ?

dont have a clue, but i know they are bloody good at it

 

[dallymessenger]

I think you should just sit back and stop tormenting yourself with questions that even the most hardcore RL fans in France don't bother with ;-)

you said you were interested in a debate.

when i tried to get one, you ran off in a cowardly manner typical of the vichy sc*m.

little wonder SBW running away from the nrl fits in well with the cowardly mentality in French RU.