A message I sent to the Toulon Rugby Club

[Loudstrat]

I guess you know the answers but vastly overstate the consequences. In short:
- the Nazis crushed us in 1940 and gave France a (loser's) choice: either a weak but autonomous French government, or direct Nazi administration. The most sensible choice was the former, which gave rise to "Vichy"
- the Vichy ideology wasn't nazism. It was of an extremely conservative nature. The closest would probably be the Franco regime in Spain
- as far as sports are concerned, the ideology translated into the following: sport should not mix with money. Therefore no sport should be professional
- as a result, all sports that were professional had to give up that status and were often asked to merge with other sports. Football had its comp completely restructured and dowgraded, clubs were forced to give up their professional sections. Tennis, badminton, table tennis and squash were forced to merge into a single federation.
- now, RL. Since its - very successful - inception in France in the 30s, RL prided itself in being professional. In light of the above, it obviously became a target for the Vichy sports minister. In this case, RL was asked to rejoin RU. The clubs and their assets were transferred to RU.
- as a result, no RL was played in France between 1942 and 1944

Some RU officials did have a lobbying role in getting RL banned. Unfortunately you've got that kind of sad individuals in any crisis situation. Blaming the RU community in general is ridiculous.

Now the consequences. On this board some of you seem to blame Vichy (and union) for the demise of RL in France. Very few leaguies in France say that. They got over it, just like football, tennis, table tennis did.
- re seizure of assets. Don't forget that the RL clubs were for the most part RU clubs who had switched allegiance to RL in the 30s, taking the "assets" with them. Plus those assets were not exactly a real estate empire.
- the vast majority of RL clubs reformed straight away when Vichy collapsed. The championship restarted as early as 1945
- the golden age of French RL was the 50s which puts the "Vichy killed League" rethorics in perspective. 300,000 people welcomed back the victorious French team from the 1951 tour of Australia. The RLWC was also a very popular event.

The real cause of RL's demise since the 60s is inept administration, lack of grass-roots work and lack of a regular international comp to rival the 5 Nations. RL had the upper hand until the 60s.

It's not for me to judge my own writings but this is a view that is shared by most French RL supporters.

Wow, finally some light shed. Thank you - knew you could do it.

Petain, from my understanding, allowed the Vichy regime because he saw the terrible cost of War at Verdun in 1916. Like the Austrians did in 1939. A brave decision IMHO.

And yes, French RL was strong in the 1950's. They claim the 52 French side was the best ever to visit Australia from anywhere. Caned the Kangaroos in tests.

 

[Taneroa]

you said you were interested in a debate.

when i tried to get one, you ran off in a cowardly manner typical of the vichy sc*m.

little wonder SBW running away from the nrl fits in well with the cowardly mentality in French RU.

No need to think about the reasons that made SBW go away from his team and Australia !..

You want a debate !! lmFAo !!!! we were supposed to talk about rugby my poor little boy but u prefer talking about bullsh*ts...
Stay with your friends and your stupidity, you love your RL, you're the only ones ! .... when there won't be any other good players in NRL because of ppl like you maybe you would like to engage a real debate

Learn about your history first before giving lessons to others !
Everywhere brits went, there were crimes, genocides, slavery, dispossessions, etc..., etc...

Adieu

 

[dallymessenger]

thanks for not being able to answer those questions, not many onion fans have when asked.

the only way RU can get ahead of RL is by cheating.

in a fair competition, RL always wins

 

[blingblang]

thanks for not being able to answer those questions, not many onion fans have when asked.

the only way RU can get ahead of RL is by cheating.

in a fair competition, RL always wins

:lol:
If Rugby didn't exist then RL would have to invent if only to be able to make sorry excuses for itself.:lol:

 

[taipan]

:lol:
If Rugby didn't exist then RL would have to invent if only to be able to make sorry excuses for itself.:lol:

Union existed so that a more entertaining form of that code could evolve.Like larva to a butterfly.

 

[taipan]

I surrender : je me rends

Now I answered the question I hope you all feel better !








Oh really ? aren't you a little bit small minded ! Our president or Tana Umaga didn't came and made your superstar go and leave suddenly dispite the australian laws !!

I think you have forgotten that your "little boy" is now 23, he is big enough to know what he has to do and what he's doing !
He took his responsabilities and to be honest, we certainly will have a sharp look at his performances but moreover we'd like you stop insulting our country, our town, our public and our team !

We never asked to be described as your stupid journalist of the Daily Telegraph of Sidney did : http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/sport/nrl/story/0,26799,24114304-5012650,00.html

this article sucks and is a real insult to our town ! It also seems the story of the stolen wallet happened to french journalist, not to himself !

Your sadness and your anger cannot allow insults and hate !

We can understand what it has done hurts, even if he may be right to do that, he shouldn't have done it like this ! I'm sure he will apologize (may be it is already done) , but don't blame him too much !

He is a kid, with so many preisure on his shoulders according to his age ! I guess he had to break with his former life, with your medias, and all troubles he faced these past few months

Now you supporters and your NRL should think about what also made him leave and also some other players : I mean your salary cap !

Do you really think young talent such as SBW will accept such a rule when - unfortunately but truth is - money rules !

Finally as one of you already wrote mourad boudjellal and SBW aren't australian, the first is a rugby club president and first of all a business man, the 2nd is NZ and surely wants to make a new start of his life !

oh btw : I'm really french, from Toulon and this site : http://www.flickr.com/photos/taneroa is really the one of my pictures !, I'm surprised you didn't tell me anything about the pictures of SBW on it !

You obviously don't you get it.SBW broke a legally binding contract -a five year contract with the Bulldogs,without consulting management.He and his previous manager,asked the Bulldogs to increase the contract from a 3 to 5 year one.
The law in Australia agreed he broke a legally binding contract,which has and will cost the club thousands of dollars.
He plays again for Toulon he is in contempt of Australian law.It appears that law has little meaning in France. It is OK for Australians to go over and fight in France in WW1 and 2 ,to help get rid of Nazism/Vichy,but the Aust govt laws pertaining to sport are notworth the paper they are written on,appears to be the case.
A kid at 23 ? In Australia you can fight in iraq,Timor,Afghanistan at 18 -19 years.Pressures SBW was under what a laugh. Pressures such as Mundine and his new mgr more likely.
BTW he SBW continues to be paid by the Bulldogs,due to contractual obligations.
His contract expires at the end of 2012.He is in contempt of court,now and until he either fulfills his contract or the Bulldogs and SBW reach a settlement.

 

[taipan]

I guess you know the answers but vastly overstate the consequences. In short:
- the Nazis crushed us in 1940 and gave France a (loser's) choice: either a weak but autonomous French government, or direct Nazi administration. The most sensible choice was the former, which gave rise to "Vichy"
- the Vichy ideology wasn't nazism. It was of an extremely conservative nature. The closest would probably be the Franco regime in Spain
- as far as sports are concerned, the ideology translated into the following: sport should not mix with money. Therefore no sport should be professional
- as a result, all sports that were professional had to give up that status and were often asked to merge with other sports. Football had its comp completely restructured and dowgraded, clubs were forced to give up their professional sections. Tennis, badminton, table tennis and squash were forced to merge into a single federation.
- now, RL. Since its - very successful - inception in France in the 30s, RL prided itself in being professional. In light of the above, it obviously became a target for the Vichy sports minister. In this case, RL was asked to rejoin RU. The clubs and their assets were transferred to RU.
- as a result, no RL was played in France between 1942 and 1944

Some RU officials did have a lobbying role in getting RL banned. Unfortunately you've got that kind of sad individuals in any crisis situation. Blaming the RU community in general is ridiculous.

Now the consequences. On this board some of you seem to blame Vichy (and union) for the demise of RL in France. Very few leaguies in France say that. They got over it, just like football, tennis, table tennis did.
- re seizure of assets. Don't forget that the RL clubs were for the most part RU clubs who had switched allegiance to RL in the 30s, taking the "assets" with them. Plus those assets were not exactly a real estate empire.
- the vast majority of RL clubs reformed straight away when Vichy collapsed. The championship restarted as early as 1945
- the golden age of French RL was the 50s which puts the "Vichy killed League" rethorics in perspective. 300,000 people welcomed back the victorious French team from the 1951 tour of Australia. The RLWC was also a very popular event.

The real cause of RL's demise since the 60s is inept administration, lack of grass-roots work and lack of a regular international comp to rival the 5 Nations. RL had the upper hand until the 60s.

It's not for me to judge my own writings but this is a view that is shared by most French RL supporters.

Rl indeed had at times inept admin in the latter 20th century,it also had the cream of its players poached by rugby union despite the game (union)supposedly being amateur.The FRU disregarded the amateur notion in the latter 2o the century.
If anyone can justify the following in France,they have no sense of fairness and are on another planet.
Then why weren't the assets handed back to rl after the war?
Why was the code only able to adopt the name"game of 13" instead of its real title rugby league for decades? .

The rugby league had approx 300,000 francs in the bank at the time of Vichy decree and dissolution,where is that money,it surely wasn't union's.?

Why was rugby league denied funding at times for getting the game into schools for decades?

Why did the commission into sport under Vichy by Mme Buffet admit in 2002" the action against against rugby league was the result of steps taken THE FRENCH RUGBY UNION FEDERATION ,which saw an opportunity to get rid of a dangerous rival"? So a govt committee blamed the FFR not us or a few French rugby league supporters

By 1939 there were 200 amateur rugby league clubs in France,why did they have to play union,because of a decree?.

It is also worth noting more powerful sports such as football,boxing and cycling were given a 3 year reprieve and never made to toe the line.Badmington ,strangley was also banned for being somehow being un-French.
NB The French rugby league at the time was openly semi-professional,but not yet full professional.Rugby union in Sth West France was also semi -professional ,but not openly so.
It is ,was ,blatant discrimination,which appears to be ignored by union supporters.
The FRL are hardly guilty of extinguishing thesemlves,and donating any assets they had at the request of an installed occupation Govt(which was despised by many freedom loving Frenchmen),over to rugby union.

 

[dallymessenger]

:lol:
If Rugby didn't exist then RL would have to invent if only to be able to make sorry excuses for itself.:lol:

RL is to RU what man is to the ape.

more evolved.

 

[adamkungl]

Girondin's answer was pretty comprehensive. If I didn't know any better I'd say Dally got owned....

 

[dallymessenger]

Girondin's answer was pretty comprehensive. If I didn't know any better I'd say Dally got owned....

:lol:c**k a doodle do.

read where he avoided my questions twice

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

Rl indeed had at times inept admin in the latter 20th century,it also had the cream of its players poached by rugby union despite the game (union)supposedly being amateur.The FRU disregarded the amateur notion in the latter 2o the century.
If anyone can justify the following in France,they have no sense of fairness and are on another planet.
Then why weren't the assets handed back to rl after the war?
Why was the code only able to adopt the name"game of 13" instead of its real title rugby league for decades? .

The rugby league had approx 300,000 francs in the bank at the time of Vichy decree and dissolution,where is that money,it surely wasn't union's.?

Why was rugby league denied funding at times for getting the game into schools for decades?

Why did the commission into sport under Vichy by Mme Buffet admit in 2002" the action against against rugby league was the result of steps taken THE FRENCH RUGBY UNION FEDERATION ,which saw an opportunity to get rid of a dangerous rival"? So a govt committee blamed the FFR not us or a few French rugby league supporters

By 1939 there were 200 amateur rugby league clubs in France,why did they have to play union,because of a decree?.

It is also worth noting more powerful sports such as football,boxing and cycling were given a 3 year reprieve and never made to toe the line.Badmington ,strangley was also banned for being somehow being un-French.
NB The French rugby league at the time was openly semi-professional,but not yet full professional.Rugby union in Sth West France was also semi -professional ,but not openly so.
It is ,was ,blatant discrimination,which appears to be ignored by union supporters.
The FRL are hardly guilty of extinguishing thesemlves,and donating any assets they had at the request of an installed occupation Govt(which was despised by many freedom loving Frenchmen),over to rugby union.

You are absolutely right, when Rugby League was to disband, the juniors were supposed to be able to play the game still, when they were old enough, they'd switch to union and union were the ones who would look after them, yet not 1 RL game was played by the juniors back then, I wonder why :roll: