Aboriginal and Maori WC Saga Continues

[bobbis]

Aboriginal and Maori sides would be more competitive than a few of the teams competing, I dont think they could knock over any of the top 3 though.

However I really don't think they should be there, theres a difference between England, Scotland and Wales and Australia and the Aboriginals. For 1 England etc have seperate geographical areas, Australia and the Aborignals occupy the same area. Secondly you can play for both Australia and the Aboriginals you cant play for Wales and England. Thirdly the Aboriginal team will be selected after the Kangaroos from the same group of players so its affectively an Australian B team, while Wales England and Scotland will not select from the same group of players.

I think both should play more internationals and be used as curtain raisers in the WC. Why not play a 3 test series between them during the WC as curtain raisers.

 

[YANTO]

Former Panthers enforcer Mark Geyer said he'd love to watch Aboriginal and Maori teams play.
"I don't think I'll be giving up a Saturday night to watch a few of the other teams that will be competing from the developing league nations," he said.

Not really a comment that we want to hear.
Seems that Mr Geyer believes RL belongs to Aus and NZ and has no place any where else.

 

[International RL]

so a team containing 4 or 5 players who might make the kangaroos would probably beat them???? i would say the kangaroos would PROBABLY beat the aboriginal team.

yes they would add a competitive team to the world cup, we could add 15 competitive teams to the world cup and call it the nrl.

the world cup is not about australia or new zealand, we dont deserve 2 teams each. its about giving countries a shot at something, its about improving between world cups. its far more important to improve rugby league in wales, france, fiji, png, ireland, russia, usa etc then to have 2 extra competitive indigenous teams in the world cup.

Here Here

 

[ali]

Former Panthers enforcer Mark Geyer said he'd love to watch Aboriginal and Maori teams play.
"I don't think I'll be giving up a Saturday night to watch a few of the other teams that will be competing from the developing league nations," he said.

Not really a comment that we want to hear.
Seems that Mr Geyer believes RL belongs to Aus and NZ and has no place any where else.

It's typical NRL arrogance. There's an attitude down here that if it's not as good as the NRL, it's not worth watching.

 

[AuckMel]

Ho hum.

The World Cup will be good for Rugby League in Australia, the UK and New Zealand because noone (at RL HQ) gives a flying about anyone else.

In 2006 New Zealand are still refused permission to play their full strength line up. The game is still in such a farcical state, that we have nothing to lose in allowing the Aboriginal and Maori teams to compete.

 

[Nook]

In 2006 New Zealand are still refused permission to play their full strength line up.

Keep in mind that you are talking about an RL body that has in the recent past whinged about the injustice of "missing out" on players like Jonathan Thurston. Incompetence on both sides of the Tasman - RL in NZ deserve better but when you see some of the nonsene that the NZRL dribbles you can understand they are sometimes treated with disdain.

The game is still in such a farcical state, that we have nothing to lose in allowing the Aboriginal and Maori teams to compete.

What rubbish. The international game - at least here in Australia - is doing farily well. Couple of big tournaments planned, a few solid crowds and some fantastic TV ratings. But if we include the Aboriginal/Maori teams at this stage we deserve what we will get - ridicule.

 

[AuckMel]

Keep in mind that you are talking about an RL body that has in the recent past whinged about the injustice of "missing out" on players like Jonathan Thurston. Incompetence on both sides of the Tasman - RL in NZ deserve better but when you see some of the nonsene that the NZRL dribbles you can understand they are sometimes treated with disdain.

LoL

I haven't heard that one before.

Your national body, along with the UK's, continues to refuse to let New Zealand play at full strength and it's their fault?

What rubbish. The international game - at least here in Australia - is doing farily well. Couple of big tournaments planned, a few solid crowds and some fantastic TV ratings. But if we include the Aboriginal/Maori teams at this stage we deserve what we will get - ridicule.

Rugby League is doing very well in Australia because you blokes ensure you always come first. State of Origin and NRL of more importance than test matches.

The code is laughed at Internationally regardless of Aboriginal and Maori teams playing.

Refusing to let the tri-nations champion select their strongest team for every game they play only gives people who laugh at us more ammo.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

The NRL clubs and ESL clubs certainly prevent the Kiwis from using their best players, not the RFL and ARL. The RFL and NRL could do more to get the best Kiwi players released for Tests if they wanted to of course. If NZ really wanted to get its best, or near its best, Test side the way to do it would be to ensure all the best players play for clubs that will release them. Used to be amost of the best Kiwis played for the Warriors but now they are mostly brought through the Australian junior ranks while the Warriors are signing more and more Australians. More Kiwis are going to England as well, chasing the cash. If they were that desperate to play for NZ they wouldn't go to England at all. If the NZRL are so keen to get more Kiwis for Test footy they shouldn't have sold their stake in the Warriors and they should be pushing for a second NZ NRL team. If the NZRL owned, or part-owned, two NZ based NRL clubs and signed most of the best Kiwi players to play fot those clubs the Kiwis would always have a strong Test team.

On the point about the game being a joke at international level, it's clear a lot more needs to be done to get international league where it should be. This WC is the biggest undertaking in that direction for years and making it work is crucial. Allowing teams into the WC that would hamper our efforts to bring the game more credibility at international level is not a good idea.

 

[Nook]

LoL

I haven't heard that one before.

Twas a couple of years ago - one of the Selwyns was quoted bitching about how unfair it was with all these young blokes (Aussies) turning the Kiwis down.

Your national body, along with the UK's, continues to refuse to let New Zealand play at full strength and it's their fault?

Has the ARL banned the full strength NZ team? News to me. The Kiwis struggle because most of their players are at offshore clubs - due to a lack of professional teams in New Zealand. Three causes: the indifference of the ARL/RFL, the self interest of the clubs and the general incompetence of the NZRL.

Rugby League is doing very well in Australia because you blokes ensure you always come first. State of Origin and NRL of more importance than test matches.

You've clearly got a chip the size of the South Island on your shoulder. "You blokes?" You mean, all the Aussies on this board who run clubs and refuse to release players? Surely you can do better than that.

The code is laughed at Internationally regardless of Aboriginal and Maori teams playing.

That is a helpful attitude. "Those big, nasty Aussies are mean to us...f**k international RL, that'll show 'em."

Refusing to let the tri-nations champion select their strongest team for every game they play only gives people who laugh at us more ammo.

Again, who is refusing? I must have missed the ARL press release banning the full strength Kiwi team? Be sensible.

 

[winnyason]

nook another pr goose. this is joke that this concept is even consider, aboriginals get enough freebies in the world now in a world cup last i checked it was not country as for maroi is not 95% percent of the kiwis side maroi.
if this happens it will be the death of international league, this does not even deserve a thought, this will undo all the hard work done in europe over the last 5 years & ruin the partly rebuilt reputation the code hold in the world.

 

[ozbash]

Why don't you use the quote feature?

There's a difference between competitive internationals and the World Cup - you're just chosing to ignore it. A World Cup signifies nations from around the world competing for the honour of being dubbed 'the best'. Aboriginal Australia and Maori New Zealand are not nations. They're cultures and races, sure, but they're not nations.

Now, if Aboriginals want to go out and claim some island and become an official country - power to them. Until then, they don't deserve a place in the World Cup.

why dont you go and get f**ked ?

the Aotearoa Maori will probably get a shot at a future world cup ( hopefully the next one) . The aboriginals will be very unlikely to because they are an oppressed nation.

 

[International RL]

why dont you go and get f**ked ?

the Aotearoa Maori will probably get a shot at a future world cup ( hopefully the next one) . The aboriginals will be very unlikely to because they are an oppressed nation.

No they won't. Nor should they...and calm down. And as for this 'opressed nation' business...I;m not even going to indulge it.

 

[AuckMel]

Twas a couple of years ago - one of the Selwyns was quoted bitching about how unfair it was with all these young blokes (Aussies) turning the Kiwis down.

No, not that, you blaming the NZRL for your national bodies refusal to support the NZRL on player availability. Laughable really.

Has the ARL banned the full strength NZ team? News to me.

They may as well have. By doing nothing they ensure the advantage continues to go to their team.

The Kiwis struggle because most of their players are at offshore clubs - due to a lack of professional teams in New Zealand. Three causes: the indifference of the ARL/RFL, the self interest of the clubs and the general incompetence of the NZRL.

I'm not sure just what you expect the NZRL to do. Its not like any of the odds are in their favour. They are almost totally dependent on the good nature of the NRL and ESL clubs.

You've clearly got a chip the size of the South Island on your shoulder. "You blokes?" You mean, all the Aussies on this board who run clubs and refuse to release players? Surely you can do better than that.

The statement was entirely accurate. "You blokes" = the ARL do whats best for Australia.

That is a helpful attitude. "Those big, nasty Aussies are mean to us...f**k international RL, that'll show 'em."

And you want me to be sensible?

Again, who is refusing? I must have missed the ARL press release banning the full strength Kiwi team? Be sensible.

If you really want fair duinkum International Rugby league, I suggest you bombard the ARL with emails telling them to make sure teams you play are actually competitive all the time and not just once or twice a year.

Just look what happened in last years Tri-Nations GF.

 

[AuckMel]

The NRL clubs and ESL clubs certainly prevent the Kiwis from using their best players, not the RFL and ARL. The RFL and NRL could do more to get the best Kiwi players released for Tests if they wanted to of course.

They could, and I'm not sure why they don't. A stronger Kiwi team would ensure larger gates and better ratings.

If NZ really wanted to get its best, or near its best, Test side the way to do it would be to ensure all the best players play for clubs that will release them. Used to be amost of the best Kiwis played for the Warriors but now they are mostly brought through the Australian junior ranks while the Warriors are signing more and more Australians. More Kiwis are going to England as well, chasing the cash. If they were that desperate to play for NZ they wouldn't go to England at all. If the NZRL are so keen to get more Kiwis for Test footy they shouldn't have sold their stake in the Warriors and they should be pushing for a second NZ NRL team. If the NZRL owned, or part-owned, two NZ based NRL clubs and signed most of the best Kiwi players to play fot those clubs the Kiwis would always have a strong Test team.

Debateable. I'm not even sure if we've acheived anything more by being involved in the NRL.

The game hasn't grown. We've had one ref get two games in 11 years, we still play 3rd fiddle behind SOO and the comps.

In some ways, getting out of the Warriors may be the smartest move the NZRL have ever made.

On the point about the game being a joke at international level, it's clear a lot more needs to be done to get international league where it should be. This WC is the biggest undertaking in that direction for years and making it work is crucial. Allowing teams into the WC that would hamper our efforts to bring the game more credibility at international level is not a good idea.

I hear what you're saying, but I'm inclined to think having teams chock full of Aussies and Kiwis isn't that much different.

I have serious doubts that, we'll see much change after the WC anyway.

 

[griff]

For the Aborigines, their country has a name:


Tjukurrpaland

I've never heard any aborigines (or anyone else for that matter) use the word "Tjukurrpaland". If they did they would be laughed at for the ridiculous notion that it is.

By the way you seem very quiet on pressing for the Basques or Catalans or Corsicans inclusion in the RLWC?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped....svg/150px-Flag_of_the_Basque_Country.svg.png

 

[Nook]

No, not that, you blaming the NZRL for your national bodies refusal to support the NZRL on player availability. Laughable really.

Right - so the NZRL whinging about Jonathan Thurston, an Aussie, wanting to play for Australia isn't laughable, but the ARL's stance is? A useful starting point would be 'the NZRL and the ARL are as bad as each other.' At least that way that chip you are lugging around wouldn't be so obvious.

They may as well have. By doing nothing they ensure the advantage continues to go to their team.

Bit of a difference between 'they may as well have' and actively seeking to weaken NZ teams, innit?


Quote:

The Kiwis struggle because most of their players are at offshore clubs - due to a lack of professional teams in New Zealand. Three causes: the indifference of the ARL/RFL, the self interest of the clubs and the general incompetence of the NZRL.

I'm not sure just what you expect the NZRL to do. Its not like any of the odds are in their favour. They are almost totally dependent on the good nature of the NRL and ESL clubs.

Yes, the poor downtrodden Kiwis and the big mean Aussies, a familiar story.

I'm no expert but I've got a few suggestions for the NZRL:

-fire people who say stupid things regularly. Hire people who keep offensively stupid public remarks to a minimum.
-get some junior structures up and running so all of the best players don't end up playing for clubs overseas and therefore end up with restricted availability for international games.
-work with the Warriors to provide some sort of stability and a unified front for the development of RL in NZ.
-focus on doing the groundwork for getting a second team up and running rather than recruiting kids from Campbelltown and Toowoomba to play for the Kiwis.

"They are almost totally dependent on the good nature of the NRL and ESL clubs." Yep. Whose fault is that? Easier to blame the Aussies, I suppose.

The statement was entirely accurate.

Except for the part where "us blokes" aren't the ARL. You seem to be struggling with that bit. "You blokes" = the ARL do whats best for Australia.

And you want me to be sensible?

Give it a go, you've nothing to lose.

If you really want fair duinkum International Rugby league, I suggest you bombard the ARL with emails telling them to make sure teams you play are actually competitive all the time and not just once or twice a year.

And perhaps you could email the NZRL and tell them to get off their arses once in a while instead of taking the easy option of always blaming someone else?

Just look what happened in last years Tri-Nations GF.

Wow. You cut me deep with that one.

 

[AuckMel]

Right - so the NZRL whinging about Jonathan Thurston, an Aussie, wanting to play for Australia isn't laughable, but the ARL's stance is? A useful starting point would be 'the NZRL and the ARL are as bad as each other.' At least that way that chip you are lugging around wouldn't be so obvious.

Of course they are, but the NZRL aren't supporting the non release of players are they?

Sheesh.

Bit of a difference between 'they may as well have' and actively seeking to weaken NZ teams, innit?

No different at all. By standing by and supporting the clubs, the ARL are making thier stance perfectly clear.

Yes, the poor downtrodden Kiwis and the big mean Aussies, a familiar story.

We'd stop whinging if you guys had the nads to take us on at full strength in every game.

I'm no expert but I've got a few suggestions for the NZRL:

-fire people who say stupid things regularly. Hire people who keep offensively stupid public remarks to a minimum.
-get some junior structures up and running so all of the best players don't end up playing for clubs overseas and therefore end up with restricted availability for international games.
-work with the Warriors to provide some sort of stability and a unified front for the development of RL in NZ.
-focus on doing the groundwork for getting a second team up and running rather than recruiting kids from Campbelltown and Toowoomba to play for the Kiwis.

Some interesting comments. A bit of that old ocker sarcasim, mixed in with the usual I don't know sh*te about the game in NZ.

What it all comes down to of course is, money.

Yep. Whose fault is that? Easier to blame the Aussies, I suppose.

Not just the Aussies. The english are just as bad.

And perhaps you could email the NZRL and tell them to get off their arses once in a while instead of taking the easy option of always blaming someone else?

I've emailed them a few times actually and the responce they get is always the same. We can't force the clubs to release the players.

Wow. You cut me deep with that one.

Well, it just shows you what our best team is capable of.

No wonder so many of you prefer to blame the NZRL.

 

[brendothejet]

whilst many points here are valid I feel i have to say this:

Guys there are enough people giving RL sh*t in the world...

we are supposed to be the good guys.

All I'm saying, is give peace a chance.

Ramalama Ding Dong.

Yes we have no bananas.

now lets all go buy tickets to any international rugby league game we can shall we?

 

[screeny]

Another point: don't you proponents think that, by definition, giving the Maori and Aborigine a go is simply racist, and therefore politically unacceptable?

Any ethnicity can be English or West Indian or Australian, but only Aboriginal tribesmen can be Aboriginal.

 

[AuckMel]

Are we discriminating against Maori and Aboriginal players who can't double dip like other Australians and New Zealanders?