Aboriginal and Maori WC Saga Continues

[International RL]

That is a major worry. What if the Aboriginals beat England? I'd say at full strength excluding Kangaroos reps, they would be the 4th best team in the world. The question is, how does a team with such brilliant backs and light weight forwards perform? I'd say better than all nations except the big 3. You would also think that given the explosion in Polynesian players in the NRL between the last World Cup and now, the NZ Maori would be a far more formidable team than in the 2000 world cup.

From a marketing perspective the problem I see is the NZ Maori is a genuine second string side. The majority of the best Maoris will be in the Kiwi side. However, a full strength Aboriginal side is a novelty that I bet many Aussie RL fans would be willing to pay to see. That doesn't mean they should be guarenteed a spot in the Cup. But if they are on debut (at least in modern times), then the novelty factor may make them quite the hit.

No, I'm sorry Ali...its total crap. How is any different? If the 17 best rugby league players in AUSTRALIA were aboriginal they would be in the kangaroos...this is utter madness.

Our credibility as a code of international significance goes on the line in 2008 and if we allow these 2 side show teams in...well it will be nothing short of a farce. Honestly, the media will SLAM it. I won't be able to defend it either...any code that has the prospect of Australia v Australia (b) in the final...is a joke.

Let them be a part of the tournament in an exhibition manner. No more.

 

[Bezant]

As an alternate suggestion what if in lieu of the ANZAC Test in 2008 a game was played between the Australian aboriginal team vs NZ Maori to honour the contribution of these peoples to the development of the sport over the last century.

However for the world cup at the end of the season Australia & New Zealand should be represented by the Kangaroos and Kiwis.

 

[Nook]

If the RLIF backpedal on this one and allow them in, they've lost me.

With you on this one.

Having them there in the first place IMO - regardless of arguments about 'sovereign' nations - would, rightly or wrongly, be detrimental to the credibility of the competition.

But if they even consider putting these teams in now in these circumstances...well, that would be beyond a joke.

They won't, and all this nonsense will end up providing a bunch of publicity for the competition itself which isn't such a bad thing.

 

[griff]

If we were to only include sovereign states then Wales, Scotland, England, Northern Ireland and Cook Islands all miss out. Other nations such as Puerto Rico, New Caledonia, Niue, Tokelau, Bermuda, the West Indies, Taiwan and American Samoa would all also be ineligible.

You don't appear to have the slightest idea of what is or isn't a country, let alone of the many existing classes for such states.

All those represent places with various levels of sovereignty and territoriality. That's the key thing with what a country is - geography. Geography and ethnicity are completely different concepts and mixing some teams based on geography and some on ethnicity in a single competition is a problematic and vexed concept that should be left well alone.

 

[rugby13france-livrade+sav]

What is the difference between a Welsh, a Scottish, a North Irish, an English ?
None they are British citizens and they have the same passport i.e. a UK passeport


In soccer or onion what is the difference between Wales, Scotland, North Ireland, England ?
these areas of Great Britain are members of FIFA or IRB !
. what are the consequences of this ?
the development of soccer or onion in these 4 areas of Great Britain !


You omit 2 major things:
. Australia and New Zealand is the origin country of Aborigines and Maoris, they were here before us white or yellow,
. all Australia and New Zealand is their country, is their country before us white or yellow


To play the WC Aborigines and Maoris
. have to constitute their respective teams (even with Kangaroos and Kiwis: choice of the players),
. have to play the qualifications games.


Moreover, what do you want:
. RL development in the world ? or, concentratation only in Australia and Great Britain ?


You, we respect 4 origine communities in Great Britain, Why not the 2 of Australia or New Zealand ?

In RL we are a special type of human ?

 

[brendothejet]

The Thing Is You Wont See Wales Vs Wales In The Soccer World Cup Semi Final.....

 

[bartman]

I know this is a deeply political issue, both in terms of sporting politics and general politics. And the RLIF clearly didn't consider Aboriginal or Maori teams as part of their plan for how this tournament would work, but are meeting on 18 August to hear a (belated) case for their inclusion.

But if, if the RLIF decide to backflip and approve their participation this time, as long as it is through a means of qualification (repecharge) and they wouldn't be taking the place of another country that may have otherwise qulaified (ie have 12 team finals instead of the awkward 10), then is it that big a deal?

Neither will win through to the final four, which should be Australia, New Zealand, England and France for mine. With twelve teams in four groups of three, the Aboriginal and Maori sides (if they make it through repecharge against the other four teams vying for three spots) could easily be separated from having to play Australia or New Zealand - or perhaps forced to play in the same groups (and hence stand less chance of progressing).

I guess the way I'm looking at it is that the decision is out of our hands, so why get upset? The idea about curtain raiser matches are all fine, and might help to address the issues about recognising contributions. But if the decision is made to potentially include them through qualification and a 12 team finals format, and if the RLIF thinks that it would atrract more exposure and revenue for the game in the centenary year, our politics aside - will it really be such a bad thing for RL or the WC?

 

[rugby13france-livrade+sav]

For the Aborigines, their country has a name:


Tjukurrpaland




and has also an official flag which is officially reckonized by your governments and by many foreign goverments

http://img355.imageshack.us/my.php?image=zzzabokr1.gif

When you have a look into the international federations member of the GAISF, you see that Northern Ireland, Scotland, England, Wales are members of other international sport federations, to soccer and onion you add: Chess, Boxing, Karaté, Basket ball, ...



We in RL we are special, we are a special type of Humans !!!
.

 

[taipan]

Australia is one country,the Kangaroos will be picked on form whether they are Aborigine,Caucasian etc.
The teams involved in the main competition must be representative of countries.
I now feel there should be,a special series as part of the world cup celebration .ie a 3 match series involving Maoris and Aborigines)(not picked for their countries) during the tournament-eg the Meninga Plate-played in Darwin,Melbourne and Sydney.Both these people have contributed greatly to the game of rugby league,and must be recognised,but as a special separate
series as part of the tournament.
Giving them their own tournament makes them special in my book.

 

[eels_fan_01]

Too be honest id like to see an Aboriginal side just for the crowds in Australia play them agaisnt some crapy sides like Ireland and they can get a bigger crowd. They would be an exciting team to watch.

Id say no to the NZ Maori side for that fact that i dont think they would get as big crowds and it would just seperate NZ fans, they would obviously rather see a NZ side that has a chance of winning it and the Maoris or really the 2nd string side wont have a chance.

I still think Australia, New Zealand and England would all be able to overcome the maori and aboriginal sides. I know some people have doubts on England but im sure they would be able to. I just think a Aboriginal side would give the cup some credibility with another "good" team in it or another team that can actually play. England and New Zealand are always suggesting we play as NSW and QLD because we win too much so this would be a mini opportunity for this.

 

[screeny]

Griff's right, the geography of the issue coupled with some degree of sovereignty allows the HNs to get in. Although I must admit I have softened on this notion - mainly due to the argument 'this is a festival of RL's heritage' and 'if people criticise us or laugh at us, then f**k 'em, who cares, we're doing what's good for RL' - I still think we can accomodate them in a series of matches that are not part of the World Cup finals without patronising them.

Playing a series against each other on double-header days, as the first matches, would be the best idea, I think. Good value, a celebration of RL and the national sense of the finals tournament would be preserved.

 

[Nook]

When did Beetson and co get in on this, anyway?

If they really cared about international RL they'd have known the World Cup was planned and these teams had been excluded a long time ago, and taken 'action' then. They didn't and now what we are going to have to put up with is a bench of rentaquotes lending public support to an argument would have been dubious enough before the RLWC cycle had commenced, let alone now.

It'd be great seeing an Aboriginal v Maori test/series held before or in conjunction with the RLWC. Hopefully they can sort something out that doesn't involve turning the World Cup into an utter farce.

 

[eels_fan_01]

So most people think that it would be a farce to have competitive maori and aboriginal sides in the world but a lower team getting beat 150-0 will be ok for international league.

 

[phonetic]

It was good enough for RU for teams to be thumped like that!

Given that there are 10 teams, I doubt there will be such scorelines. Sure there will be thrashings, but none to that extreme.

There were decisions made on this long ago, but now we have to put up with the bad press associated with it. Wern't NZ Maori officially denied entry some time ago? Why wasn't a stink kicked up then.

Basically, it's too little too late. Beetson should have had his act together long ago if he wanted to help campaign for this. If he's out of touch with the movements of the game internationally, then that's his problem.. he should butt out of it.

 

[rugby13france-livrade+sav]

the farce is to have Wales and not Aborigines and Maoris

How many Aborigines in the Kangaroo team or Maoris in the Kiwi team ?
Why can not they prefer the Aborigine or Maori national team ?
Why may not they prefer the Aborigine or Maori national team ?

The Arthur's fight doesn't begin in july 2006 !
It is since 2002 that Arthur conduct the fight, it was for the WC scheduled in 2004 and cancelled
(on this matter, some of you have a very short memory !)


If Aborigines and Maoris are a farce in the rlif and the WC, isn't it a farce Wales, Scotland, in the RLEF and European Championship ?


In RL we are special !!!, we are the best !!!


Is it this the Greatest Game ? ?



Aborigines and Maoris have to play the qualifications and if they are qualified this means
. they are in the top 10 or 12 !!!
. they are as good as Wales or Fidji or Russia or USA !!!
Are you afraid by this ??


You appreciate, you appreciate very much their contribution in the RL but they are to remain in a ghetto !!!
. is it this the democratic Australia ??
. is it this the Greatest Game ??
. is it this the sport of the workers ??
. is it this the sport of the small people ??


Or RL is it the sport of rich people (like onion, golf, tennis) ??

:x

 

[hutch]

they wont be there, they shouldnt be there end of story. all australians of all backgrounds should aim to represent the kangaroos, same with nz with the kiwis. this issue should have been put to bed a long time ago, it was until beetson opened his mouth, probably for the first time on international rugby league.

i would rather see russia get beaten 100-0 by the kangaroos then australia beat the aboriginal team 50-0. the most interesting games from the world cup IMO will be the clash between countries such as png, france, tonga wales because the games will be unpredicable, nobody knows who will win and they will be legitimate international teams (hopefully).

 

[fourplay]

I think they should be included for the reason it would make the world cup VERY competitive with 4 teams having a solid shot at winning.

Did anyone else see the Aboriginal team in the Sun Herald ?

DAMN it was STRONG and would probably knock off the Kangaroos.

 

[fourplay]

Here is the potential full strength Aboriginal team named in the Sun Herald

1. Matt Bowen
2. Amos Roberts
3. Timana Tahu
4. Justin Hodges
5. Ty Williams
6. Jonathon Thurston
7. Scott Prince.
8. Sam Thaiday
9. John Doyle
10. Mark Tookey
11. Carl Webb
12. Willie Tonga
13. Dean Widders

14. Preston Campbell
15. Rhys Wesser
16. Greg Inglis
17. Matt Sing

Lots of quality players but they need a couple more forwards for the bench, bring Gordon Tallis outta retirement :badgrin:

Actually, move Inglis to centres and big Timana Tahu can play as a backrower!

 

[hutch]

DAMN it was STRONG and would probably knock off the Kangaroos.

so a team containing 4 or 5 players who might make the kangaroos would probably beat them???? i would say the kangaroos would PROBABLY beat the aboriginal team.

yes they would add a competitive team to the world cup, we could add 15 competitive teams to the world cup and call it the nrl.

the world cup is not about australia or new zealand, we dont deserve 2 teams each. its about giving countries a shot at something, its about improving between world cups. its far more important to improve rugby league in wales, france, fiji, png, ireland, russia, usa etc then to have 2 extra competitive indigenous teams in the world cup.

 

[bartman]

As I've said earlier, try naming a current Aboriginal side's forward pack - it almost can't be done. Many teams will beat them through the forwards if they play.

* Edit - sorry just saw the SMH team. The bench is entirley backs! I'd fancy the LU forum's chances of getting together a pack that would dominate the opposition six in that side. *