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Discussion in 'St George Illawarra Dragons' started by R&WTILLIDIE, Jul 28, 2020.

  1. Eatons Hill Dragon

    Eatons Hill Dragon Juniors

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    Welch played Origin for QLD last year and is a very good front rower.
    And totes he has had two major leg issues in the past 3.5 years.
     
  2. Eatons Hill Dragon

    Eatons Hill Dragon Juniors

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    Agree we need to clone Jeremy Smith and Neville Costigan.
    However the Dragons of the past decade will instead find a new Mark Blackburn and Jason Hoogerwerf.
     
    redv13 likes this.
  3. Gareth67

    Gareth67 First Grade

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    Yes there certainly was a bit of silverware in the Taj Mahal trophy cabinet when they enticed Huddart out from the old dart . And once again a Jeremy Smith type of player is exactly what the Dragons require , one tough nut and as you have pointed out the man also had brains. Why he , Bennett released him instead of another player back in 2011 is beyond me .

    But as we all realize our pack must have some real starch added to it if the Dragons are to become a force once again .
     
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  4. matPORTS

    matPORTS Juniors

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    Agreed with this massive clean out.

    Of the players who've already moved on or not under contract for next year, we would have around $2.6m to spend by your approximations.

    I'd also say that Sailor won't be with us next year if he's not in the top grade. So add some more money to that total.

    Even if we release none of the deadwood / under-performers, that would be more than enough money to get Johnston, Welch & Hetherington in and perhaps re-sign JDB legal proceedings depending (although the terms of such new deal need to be delicately worked through ie. 1 year with option in our favour for the second + third etc).

    Welch & Hetherington potentially coming onboard will hopefully put a rocket up the rest of the forwards to keep improving / performing (particularly those who've been in the system for a long time now i.e. Lawrie, Host, Ford). As with Johnston he'd provide the leadership in our back five that we've been lacking for sometime now and will assist with the further development of Ramsay, the Feagais etc.

    The deadwood / under-performers can go back to reserve grade (or Illawarra League so as not to stall the development of our next crop of juniors) in an attempt to force a release on their own accord, and that also includes Jason Saab seeing out his contract. Sadly our coach, recruitment and retention staff have no idea how to deal with this, which will mess our salary cap up for years and make the job of their successors (who will come by 2022 if not sooner) that much harder (our board certainly won't bother keeping these guys accountable).

    **EDIT**

    My thoughts (underestimating on some and over-estimating on some):

    Graham - $500k
    Lafai - $400k
    Frizell - $500k

    Aitken - $300k
    Brittain - $100k
    de Belin - $600k
    Ellis - $100k
    Host - $200k
    Lovodua - $100k
    Sailor - $150k

    TOTAL = $2.95m
    CONSERVATIVE ESTIMATE = $2.8-3.2m

    Re-Sign:
    de Belin - $650k (will command some sort of upgrade but I don't think we should offer any more given he's not played for two years - and he will get through his legal procedings for purpose of this exercise)
    Host - $250k
    Sailor - $200k
    Ellis - $150k
    Brittain - $150k (back up hooker)

    TOTAL = $1.4m
    LEFT IN KITTY = $1.4-$1.8m

    Signings:

    Must targets:
    Alex Johnston - $750k
    Christian Welch - $450k

    TOTAL = $1.2m
    LEFT IN KITTY = $200-600k

    Other notables off-contract at other clubs (might be worth exploring some of these if we can't land the above two):
    Adam Elliot (Bulldogs)
    Jordan McLean & John Asiata (Cowboys)
    Matt Ikuvalu (Roosters)
    Tom Starling, Sebastian Kris (Raiders)
    Scott Sorensen (Sharks)
    Brendon Elliot & Cade Cust (Sea Eagles)
    Rhys Kennedy (Broncos)

    Then there will also be clubs looking to offload players e.g. Panthers - some in there team will be commanding upgrades thus forcing them to promote further junior stocks and forcing others to explore the market

    Then there is also the Widdop rumor (which may have an affect on movements for us one way or the other - my take is that he will be back in the NRL next year just a matter of who with).

    Let me do a squad based on all of this:

    COACH: Shane Flanagan (well Jack is getting off his legal matters in this theory so why can't Flanno?)

    The following would be my starting 13, Round 1 2021:

    1. Dufty
    2. Johnston
    3. Z Lomax
    4. Feagai (Centre Feagai)
    5. Ravalawa
    6. Sailor
    7. Clune
    8. de Belin
    9. Hunt
    10. Vaughan
    11. T Sims
    12. Welch
    13. McInnes

    Spots 14-21... make your bench spots up out of the following with the rest leading the way in reggies:

    14. Kerr
    15. Host
    16. Lawrie
    17. Ford
    18. Fuimaono
    19. Blacker
    20. Ellis
    21. Brittain

    Extended squad:

    22. Sullivan
    23. Ramsey
    24. Williame
    25. Feagai (Winger Feagai)

    Deadwood Category:

    26. Norman (we don't want to be messing our cap up for this - Illawarra League to see out his contract... shouldn't be stalling the development of Sullivan & the next junior half coming through)
    27. Merrin (best bet will be retirement - but is in reggies next year otherwise)
    28. K Sims (best bet Super League - but is in reggies next year otherwise)
    29. Saab (unless any transfer is positive in our favour - reggies... basically get your head in order)
    30. Pereira (reggies)

    Top of the Development Squad:
    - Schiller
    - H Lomax

    Basically:

    1. Install a new coach + recruitment/retention/pathways manager.
    2. Re-sign those needed.
    3. Focus on the astute signings from outside the club (Johnston & Welch)
    3. We will have some money in the kitty - this can be used to dangle a carrot for upgrades for anyone deserving.
    4. If we can force any release out of the deadwood category (basically all need to be told that you're out of first grade for next year) then we might be able to recruit one or two extra depending (but don't see a need - give the young fellas a crack).
    5. Makes 2022 interesting - plenty of cap space available when the deadwood will no longer cost us financally. Vaughan & T Sims (among others) on notice in 2021.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2020
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  5. Dragonslayer

    Dragonslayer First Grade

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    Before we can say, for certain, who will come and who will go, we must first address a number of other factors that are currently having effect on our team.

    Until those factors are dealt with or resolutions found, we cannot possibly go down the path of 'quality' signings or dreaming of xyz joining our squad. There is a pattern developing that players outside our club are side-stepping us as far as they can eg: Suli and CHN.

    We still have to fill a squad of 30 for next year (+ DS players). As it stands we will either retain or re-sign existing players and only bait some broken down or retirement ready player from outside. In saying that, I think Ellis looks a good prospect and if the rumour of Welsh joining us (who played SOO last year) is correct then that is also a good start (due diligence please). I dont personally believe Vaughan will go, but that will depend on thise factors i've already alluded to.
     
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  6. hazzbeen

    hazzbeen Bench

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    Bring back Graham O' Grady , Pat Jarvis for now .... F**K just woke up .... :)
     
  7. denis preston

    denis preston Bench

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    Jesus Poss, why do you keep adding the value of hunt & Norman's contract as 1.7 mill to spend ? They are not going elsewhere on that sort of money and if they could be offloaded it would be with us still paying at least half of it. So instead of valuing it as 1.8 mill it would be more like 400k for Norman & 500k for Hunt and thats provided someone else sees value at half rates or they are prepared to go.
     
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  8. Eatons Hill Dragon

    Eatons Hill Dragon Juniors

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    Not to mention $750,000 for Alex Johnston. Best position is wing not fullback and at that price way way overs.
     
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  9. Gareth67

    Gareth67 First Grade

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    Possum old mate , we realize that recruitment is in a mess , but it will only improve once the old boys club has been swept out .

    Your mate Millward could very well be restricted in doing his job in the manner that he himself would like due to the board , Mary himself and of course a bank balance that is hovering on near empty .
     
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  10. Gareth67

    Gareth67 First Grade

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    If only hazz , they were both real workhorses and exactly the type that is required in the Dragons engine room now . I was always impressed with O’Gradys work ethic , for a small bloke he really got stuck into the tackling and his attack was first rate .
     
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  11. hazzbeen

    hazzbeen Bench

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    And both players were tough as teak ..... I remember a game against South it could have been even a semi , an all in happened ( the good old days of biff ) players were into to it all over the park , O'Grady was into them going from one to another, he could definitely look after himself ..... My type of player ....
     
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  12. Gareth67

    Gareth67 First Grade

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    He certainly was , I recall the semi against Parramatta and the Dragons were the underdogs , we were leading with only a few minutes to go when their hooker raked the ball back and sent Eric Grothe on his way to the try line , snatching the match in the dying seconds .

    We had not only O’Grady but the late Steve Rodgers playing and due to their combined efforts came within a whisker of entering the Grand Final . As you have said they were great players who could not only change the course of a game , but also add team spirit into the entire team . They were tremendous assets to the Red V and it is most unfortunate that players of their caliber are no longer available .
     
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  13. Inisai Toga

    Inisai Toga Juniors

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    Intelligent strategic recruitment from the Dragons then. Not just “whose available on the market, so get them“ type recruitment. These players influence others. Reddy was similar. Frank Stanton often built rep sides around Reddy. They mould others on and off the field. A bit rough around the edges perhaps, but I’d prefer them than the modern day players and the confessions on ‘ how were going to do this and that’ in the weekend to appease Marketing staff and website uploads.
     
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  14. blacksafake

    blacksafake Guest

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    Agree but there’s too many things there for our board to do.
    I don’t think they’re capable of doing it.
     
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  15. possm

    possm Coach

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    Your very close to the money there Walpole. To me we had 3 of the 4 forwards we needed to do the job and will not now have them for 2021.

    We need at least two top first grade props maybe we can do it with one if De Belin becomes available.

    If we let go Hunt we will need a top grade hooker - McInnes to lock.

    We need someone to replace Frizell - Fifita was the one but Titans beat us to him.

    I think a Dufty / Clune halves combination would do the trick fine.

    So yes Johnston as our fullback and if possible a first-grade left centre but if that it too much strain on the cap, a Williame or Feagai would do the job.

    The main thing is that much of the deadwood and I hope all of the poor culture will be gone allowing for the club to build up some healthy pride and loyalty to the big red V.
     
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  16. possm

    possm Coach

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    In early 2011 we were favourites to go back to back. Then Bennett anounced he was moving on to Newcastle and Gasnier retired. After SOO our elete players were stuffed and we sunk into decline. I'd say Bennett was more interested in his next gig than anything else.
     
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  17. Craig93

    Craig93 Juniors

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    We should replace Friz with the young Tigers left back rower i think his name is Leilua?
     
  18. Gareth67

    Gareth67 First Grade

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    Yes Bennett pulled the rug from under the Dragons that year , as well as a number of players that he had earmarked to go with him .

    What he done was unforgivable imo , more so when on the eve of the semi against Brisbane he actually had the hide to travel north .

    That must had gutted the Dragon players , however that is history now and the J.V. must become focus on success and they can start that by giving the silver bullet to the coach (?) and the other useless beggars who are sucking the life blood from St.George Illawarra .
     
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  19. Dragon David

    Dragon David Juniors

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    Lol. Good one Craig93.
     
  20. Banjo2014

    Banjo2014 Juniors

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    Read and watched so much footall over the weekend.

    Think Meninga mentioned that Aitken was being courted by the Warriors.

    Also Ennis or Cronk suggested that Norman is not going anywhere noting that he would not be paid anywhere near what he earns for the Dragons next year.
     
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