Alex's Law

[madunit]

what about lifting tackles that dont involve hands between the legs? Some of the best tackles I can remember are blokes like Andrew Johns picking up a bloke and dumping him on his back, there is a slight chance of someone going beyond the horizontal but I dont think it could ever become a spear.

Tony Williams on Isaac DeGois

 

[Dezziedc]

Total credit to Penrith, I hope for Alex's sake and am confident that Newcastle, the NRL and the League Community as a whole will do whatever it takes to assist Alex not just for now, but for however long it takes. This has been the saddest news in Rugby League I have endured, right up there with the tragic loss of Ben Alexander, and for me now with more life experience, it cuts a little deeper.

I think you need to take a step back and think about it in realistic terms and look at the situation in it's entirety. Outlawing it or making it an immediate send off etc are just knee jerk reactions. You really need to think about the impact this would have on the game and the amount of times it happens in a game.

Not brushing aside the severity of it all or the impact it has had on Alex and his family, but there are a number of factors that contributed to this situation. The number of players in the tackle, the position of the players, momentum, Alex's movements etc.

How many times have you seen this happen in a game? Over a weekend? How many times have you seen players in similar situations stop the tackle before the player went past horizontal? How many times have you seen refs blow the whistle when the player isn't in a lifting tackle but it is deemed dangerous? Honestly, I don't see many of these types of tackles anymore and even those that do approach dangerous realms are often prevented due to player awareness. I think the NRL has done a pretty good job of policing this tackle over the years which has seen a decline in how often it happens - but it will still happen from time to time no matter how much you penalize players/teams.

You also need to look at the game as a whole. How many other actions in the game could cause the same or similar problems? Head highs? Shoulder charges? Back slams? Mid air tackles? Attacking the kickers legs? Just to name a few. They could all cause serious injuries and they are all penalized/policed as best they can during the game without affecting the spectacle that is Rugby League too much. And even scrums as has been highlighted can cause injuries as well. And even though they are heavily scrutinized they still occur in the game. Most of them not intentionally but they still happen.

Bottom line is, I think the NRL have been doing enough to remove these types of things from the game. You can't completely remove the danger from the game unless you want to turn it into a game of touch footy.

 

[madunit]

OMG Trusaint I was just reading that same article, I was very impressed with how quickly the panthers went out of their way too look after him financially + the Eels contributions.. I looked up Jake Farragher (johns son).. Found he played for the sharks.. I wonder if he's still in the NRL

Thanks for reading my article.

In all honesty though, one thing which I failed to mention was how long it took the then NSWRL to change scrum and scrum formations after Farragher's incident.

There was also no support programs in place for players that witnessed this, or were involved in the scrum and some of those undoubtedly will sit at home many times in their lives since and wonder if maybe they had've done something different, then Farragher would still be walking today.

That's a burden that the survivors have to wear and it will stay with them for the rest of their lives as well.

Scrums back then were so much more frequent and fiercely contested and the structure of those scrums were absolutely diabolical. Front rowers would pack in more sideways to try and push the opposing hooker away from the ball when it was rolled into the scrum. The opposing Hooker would get his legs off the ground and use his arms to hold himself up. Given how many of these scrums collapsed into a pile of bodies, it's an absolute miracle that the game hasn't seen more players careers end due to some form of paralysis.

These gang tackles today are a result of the game constantly getting faster and a need to slow the ruck down to allow the defence to get onside.

Jordan McLean will live with this one mistake for the rest of his life.

 

[Conditionally Human]

madunit.

Awsome article and great post. I hope you're a Dragons supporter. More than that, I hope you're a campaigner. You've helped restore my faith today.

I've read too many posts, written by people, who are saying that the tackle on Alex was O.K., and it makes me burn.

My view? Bad in three ways.

1. Hands between legs - Illegal? Gay? (not that there's anything wrong with that).
2. Lifting - Illegal? Dangerous?
3. Driving - Legal? Vicious? The nail in the coffin?

Now we,ve watched it so many times on replay, that the Snap Dragon (Mrs Conditionally Human) wants the tin lids to play AFL instead. Is she right? I'm starting to agree.

Something needs to be done, that's for sure.

 

[TheRev]

How many other actions in the game could cause the same or similar problems? Head highs? Shoulder charges? Back slams? Mid air tackles? Attacking the kickers legs? Just to name a few. They could all cause serious injuries and they are all penalized/policed as best they can during the game without affecting the spectacle that is Rugby League too much. And even scrums as has been highlighted can cause injuries as well. And even though they are heavily scrutinized they still occur in the game. Most of them not intentionally but they still happen.

Bottom line is, I think the NRL have been doing enough to remove these types of things from the game. You can't completely remove the danger from the game unless you want to turn it into a game of touch footy.

I agree wholeheartedly, there are heaps of ways a player can be seriously injured, its a tough contact sport thats getting faster and faster with bigger stronger blokes... Morris could have been seriously hurt in his miracle 101st try just a few weeks ago, or Nightingale being tackled in the air last week..

There will have to be some sort of clarification over the mechanics.. i.e. hand between the leg, or no lifting when 2+ in the tackle.. ill leave this up to the experts who can analyse the mechanics, but definitely its the dirty tactics id like to see removed, which is the cannonball tackle for example (which happened against us last week also), taking out legs in the air.. and driving a bloke into the ground (particularly when he doesnt have his hands free to break the fall due to other defenders).

 

[GT0007]

I think lifting above the horizontal should be an immediate sin bin and you will find techniques will change pretty quickly especially if the hand is between the legs. If the player lets go of the legs at horizontal it would be rare it would be a spear tackle. We go to the video ref for minor things why not this???

 

[madunit]

madunit.

Awsome article and great post.

Thanks.

I hope you're a Dragons supporter.

I'm a Balmain fan. But above that, being a historian, I'm a Rugby League fan first and foremost.

More than that, I hope you're a campaigner. You've helped restore my faith today.

I've read too many posts, written by people, who are saying that the tackle on Alex was O.K., and it makes me burn.

My view? Bad in three ways.

1. Hands between legs - Illegal? Gay? (not that there's anything wrong with that).
2. Lifting - Illegal? Dangerous?
3. Driving - Legal? Vicious? The nail in the coffin?

Now we,ve watched it so many times on replay, that the Snap Dragon (Mrs Conditionally Human) wants the tin lids to play AFL instead. Is she right? I'm starting to agree.

Something needs to be done, that's for sure.

I think whats needed is not over reactions from one tackle (of which there's been a shedload that have looked far far worse over the years but the outcome was nowhere near as severe as what happened to poor Alex.

I believe that the NRL laws about penalties being issue when a player goes past the horizontal is stupid. A professional Rugby League players body is going to weigh around 70-80kgs above the waist and 20 or so kegs from the waist down. By the time a player gets to the horizontal and their legs are going up, they've already gone too far and they are lucky if they avoid being speared.

Thats just basic bloody knowledge.

The rule should have always been, if you put a hand between a players legs, you get penalised. Penalise that shit before the lifting happens and you avoid this sort of tragedy happening again from an illegal tackle.

This is an example where McLean hasn't actually lifted McKinnon above the horizontal, he did however unbalance McKinnon, whose momentum was going forward, put him in a dangerous situation whereby Alex fell forward, head first thanks to the weight of the two other players in the tackle.

McLean was wrong to put his hand between McKinnon's legs to effect the tackle, he could have just tackled him around the ankles. But by no means do I believe that McLean intended to spear tackle Alex. That was just a horrible accident resulting from the bad decision made by McLean.

A mistake that McLean will live with for the rest of his life.

The issue here too, is the fact that the storm had been penalised at least twice (from memory) prior to that tackle for lifting in tackles.

This shows that referees are being too lenient on spear tackles to begin with. In the past, players got marched for this, now they are put on report and a penalty is given.

Referees have become too soft and that is another large issue that is sitting under the surface of this tragedy. Sadly, no matter what rule changes take place, they will be too late.

It shouldn't come to this to see basic f**king rule changes made to ensure player safety but without affecting the way the game is played.

And your missus is wrong. It's never okay to play AFL. If she doesn't want the kid to play League, he should take up cricket or snooker.

 

[Someone]

On BSB this morning a guy called Craig added to this debate with a great point IMO.

Once a player puts his hands between another?s legs, toward the crutch, they create a pivot, making the lift-flip almost unavoidable. It?s a very common wrestling move and always attracts ?Oohs and Ah?s? from the crowd as the wrestle /actors effect devastating moves using the technique.

It?s not necessary and whilst it won?t take all neck injuries out of play, it will remove the primary cause of player inversion and neck injury (since scrum rules have changed).

A consistent send-off for the practice which is completely avoidable and unnecessary would eradicate the practice.

It?s pretty simple and I don?t think that the logic of immediately implementing such a rule and penalty can be cogently argued against.

This. Its common sense really.

 

[GT0007]

It was an horrible accident first and foremost. I feel for Alex and wish him the best, I also feel for the Melbourne players too with the amount of people calling for their heads.

It wasn't a bad tackle, It wasn't helped by Alex tucking his head under either. There was no malice or intent to hurt Alex from the Melbourne players. The lifting was unnecessary but had Alex not tucked his head in, we may not be in this predicament currently and Alex would be fine.

Another thing it reminded me of was that some players, once lifted, were trying to flip over to win a penalty. I'm not saying Alex tried to do this, it just reminded me is all and it's just unfortunate that it happened the way it did.

I'm not trying have a dig at either party, just my observation. I hope that Alex can prove the Doctors wrong and hopefully one day walk again!

Maybe you should look at the angle Alex was heading toward the ground, put yourself in that position and see how u fare? He actually thought he was going to be flipped. He risked serious injury either way. It was clearly an illegal tackle and Jordan followed thru driving Alex into the ground. The infringement wasn't lifting it was lifting above the horizontal and even then he didn't pull out of it he went on with the tackle. Stupidity isn't a defence especially with the injury he caused! 7 weeks is a joke!!!

 

[madunit]

McLean didn't lift him above the horizontal though. It was McKinnon's momentum and the weight of the two blokes pushing down on him that, combine with McLean's position in the tackle and the angle he was pushing from, that put Alex in that position. When I first saw it live I thought he was just going to land on his belly/chin.

And then I saw him duck his head and I immediately knew this was not going to be pretty.

McLean should not have tried to lift him, it was completely unneccesary, as all lifting is, but it was even moreso in this instance as Alex was already being tackled by two players. This I believe is a sign of negligence and deserves a long stint just for that.

hand between the legs, add more weeks, end result of the tackle, add more weeks.

 

[Cagey Mac]

I find this a little frustrating
Archimedes figured out this problem around 2300 years ago
By placing the fulcrum (hand) in the middle of someones body you render them completely unstable and send their head racing toward the ground. Additional tacklers make it impossible for them to free their arms and defend themselves. The bulk of the entire tangled mass then comes down on the tackled players unprotected head or neck or shoulder.
It's that f**king simple!
Don't flip the player on his head by putting your hand between his legs
If you do
You get sent off for even attempting it!
The NRL needs to implement the law immediately or if will fail in it's duty of care to players and deserves to have it's arse sued off if it doesn't.
It's an avoidable act and it's not in the spirit of the game
It is always deliberate.

 

[GT0007]

I find this a little frustrating
Archimedes figured out this problem around 2300 years ago
By placing the fulcrum (hand) in the middle of someones body you render them completely unstable and send their head racing toward the ground. Additional tacklers make it impossible for them to free their arms and defend themselves. The bulk of the entire tangled mass then comes down on the tackled players unprotected head or neck or shoulder.
It's that f**king simple!
Don't flip the player on his head by putting your hand between his legs
If you do
You get sent off for even attempting it!
The NRL needs to implement the law immediately or if will fail in it's duty of care to players and deserves to have it's arse sued off if it doesn't.
It's an avoidable act and it's not in the spirit of the game
It is always deliberate.

They used to stop play immediately and blow a penalty anytime there was a hint of the hand between the legs, what happened to that?

 

[Sent to St Georges]

They used to stop play immediately and blow a penalty anytime there was a hint of the hand between the legs, what happened to that?

They lost their mojo

 

[madunit]

They used to stop play immediately and blow a penalty anytime there was a hint of the hand between the legs, what happened to that?

I think refs started getting concerned, for whatever reason (be it a directive from those higher up or what I don't know), about having uneven team numbers.

Since that happened, players don't get sent off or even sin binned, they just get put on report.

 

[Minh]

In recent years they have appeared to have gone soft on lifting tackles with some dubious ones being let off or slapped on the wrist.

 

[GT0007]

In recent years they have appeared to have gone soft on lifting tackles with some dubious ones being let off or slapped on the wrist.

Going back a few years as soon as the hand was between the legs the whistle was blown barely b4 they got the player off the ground. The NRL has to be seen to be making some change or tweaks as the public is demanding it. If they just put it down to an accident people with turn away and if there is another tragedy at any level of the game the media will jump on it and NRL will go backwards 10yrs. Junior registrations will evaporate

 

[Minh]

Going back a few years as soon as the hand was between the legs the whistle was blown barely b4 they got the player off the ground. The NRL has to be seen to be making some change or tweaks as the public is demanding it. If they just put it down to an accident people with turn away and if there is another tragedy at any level of the game the media will jump on it and NRL will go backwards 10yrs. Junior registrations will evaporate

Agree, good post GT.