AMNRL individual team business model

[Rampart66]

I'm Glenn Csonka and I'm the marketing guy for the Pittsburgh Vipers. I got involved with the Vipers a few weeks before the start of the season. Truth is, I really didn't know much about rugby league. However, in a football mad town such as Pittsburgh, I felt that rugby could catch on here and be pretty popular since the sport has a reputation of being tough and hard hitting. Part of what sold me into working with the Vipers was the AMNRL redesign that I had seen on a sports logo website. It convinced me that the league was serious about it's image and could be on the brink of a huge breakthrough.

After a few weeks, I now know that not all clubs are equal. I don't mean in terms of talent, but the way each club markets itself from the website to it's venue. Not all clubs play in venues with seating, let alone charge admission to the games. For a sport that relies on sponsors and out of pocket funding, this is a important source of potential revenue. I know some teams play at community parks or other feilds that don't offer much in the way of seating. Jacksonville plays at the University of North Florida. It would be nice if every club had a nice grass field with plenty of seats and ample parking in their neighborhood.

So, some questions for the teams out there. Does your venue inhibit your ability to market your team? What would happen if your team was so popular 5000 or more fans showed up? Would there be room for everyone? Would there be parking? How important is grass compared to an artificial surface? It seems that a high school stadium would be perfect, but more and more are getting rid of grass in favor of turf. What about the pitch measurements? Is the 100m x 68m strictly followed? Could we use the markings for American football or is the width too short?

Jacksonville and Philadelphia seem to do a great job in getting the word out and being part of their communities. I'd like to get a discussion going that involves best practices from the clubs. Things like advice on getting and maintaining sponsorships. Merchandise for the fans; what sells, what doesn't and what products have the best profit margins. Are there vendors that are rugby friendly that we should use?

This league has such an opportunity to grow, but I think the mindset has to change from pub league to pro league. The fans need to have the perception that this is a pro league much like the USL (soccer) or MLL (lacrosse).

 

[miguel de cervantes]

Wow. Didn't expect this.

 

[jim_57]

Interesting, I hope you get a bit of discussion here, will be good to read.

 

[deluded pom?]

Firstly, welcome to the forum Glenn. Secondly you're probably asking the wrong guys here. Most of us on here are fans of the US game but are too distant from the AMNRL to have any impact on it. Spinner who is co owner of the Axemen posts here sometimes as does the Eagles founder and President Steve Grant but other than those two there's very little input here from people on the ground who are involved in the day to day running of AMNRL clubs and who would be best placed to answer some of your questions. It's good to hear from someone from a new team who seem to be taking their job very seriously. Best of luck..

 

[Choo Choo]

Glenn,

For the Eagles, you can send an email to fairfaxeagles@hotmail.com.

 

[Cheby]

You can email info@newhavenwarriors.net for info about the Warriors.

 

[Rampart66]

I send you guys an e-mail this evening. I'll include Spinner in on the e-mail also, I'm sure he has a lot of valuable insight.

 

[juro]

I hope the other teams are open with sharing their ideas and methods. While the teams are competing on the field, they need to work together to make the competition as strong as possible.

 

[PaulyTom]

Good to hear that Glen is trying to develop the sport in Pittsburgh. Looks like I'm a Vipers fan now.

Keep up the good work.

 

[RedVee]

I don't know if this is waht you are after ...
In Oz most kids play soccer - as a start anyway, but then a large number decide they want some more contact in their sport and switch to League, Union or Aussie Rules. I've heard that the US also has a large number of participents in soccer, maybe you guys can try and pick up some kids in the same way - perhaps there will be quite a few that want a bit more contact in their lives... but not as much as American football though.
I guess that is a little way away, when you can have junior under age competitions and school sport. I'm assuming you basically start and end at the adult level? Lebanon may be worth researching - they seem to be growing in leaps and bounds, and are now in their school system.

 

[Rampart66]

Most of my point is that we can't grow the sport in America if we're satisfied with playing top tier league games in community parks with a handful of people in folding chairs watching the game. What's stopping some teams from moving to a venue with seats? Is it the surface? The location? the pricetag? The inability to accomadate rugby league? I think some (if not most) of the teams in the AMNRL use the American football goalposts instead of rugby goalposts for logistical reasons.

So what takes priority. A regulation rugby pitch with rugby goalposts, but no seats and no parking. Or an artificial turf high school football stadium, that me be narrower with seats and parking with the added revenue source of charging admission?

 

[Cheby]

I think the main issue in terms of venue is price. Clubs just don't have a lot of money to throw around and renting even a high school football venue can be pricey. We (the Warriors) have just moved into one this year. While it is very nice to have seats, nice turf and a place to shower, the cost does hurt.

 

[roopy]

Soccer fields are the right size.
In Australia many grounds are used for both sports.
The tricky thing is having removable goals/goal posts.
Soccer goals that are moveable have proven to be very dangerous for children who turn them over, and some children have been crushed.

 

[***MH***]

Is the 100m x 68m strictly followed? Could we use the markings for American football or is the width too short?

In the International laws of the game, the rules allow for smaller and narrower fields.

3. The goal posts are considered to extend indefinitely upwards. It is
recommended that the bottom two metres of each upright be padded.​

└┬┘ shaped goal posts are permissible provided the relevant dimensions

are observed.

4. For adult games the dimensions should be as near maximum as possible​

to the dimensions stipulated.

 

[Skeletor]

The inability to accomadate rugby league? I think some (if not most) of the teams in the AMNRL use the American football goalposts instead of rugby goalposts for logistical reasons.

The laws of the game allow for the use of American Football-style goalposts. Back in my refereeing days I even saw a couple of grounds back in Australia using them.

 

[druzik]

The laws of the game allow for the use of American Football-style goalposts. Back in my refereeing days I even saw a couple of grounds back in Australia using them.

The ground in Yass uses the american goal posts.

 

[yakstorm]

Most of my point is that we can't grow the sport in America if we're satisfied with playing top tier league games in community parks with a handful of people in folding chairs watching the game. What's stopping some teams from moving to a venue with seats? Is it the surface? The location? the pricetag? The inability to accomadate rugby league? I think some (if not most) of the teams in the AMNRL use the American football goalposts instead of rugby goalposts for logistical reasons.

So what takes priority. A regulation rugby pitch with rugby goalposts, but no seats and no parking. Or an artificial turf high school football stadium, that me be narrower with seats and parking with the added revenue source of charging admission?

Rampart, I commend your efforts to help raise the level of professionalism within not only your club, but across the AMNRL itself. Whilst it would be nice to see all clubs aiming to constantly improve themselves, and take steps towards to being more professional, I think one obstacle you are going to fine, is that whilst some are doing this, or can do this, there will be those who just can't or have no desire to.

As raised by Roopy before, one of the things the AMNRL needs to more towards is having more than one level within the game. Let's be honest, the current AMNRL competition is of quite a good standard, which makes it very hard for team who has never played league before to come in and compete. At the same time, the costs for travelling to Jacksonville could also rule out some new clubs trying their hand.

A good question that needs to be asked within the AMNRL, is if there was a Second Division based purely around that New Jersey / New York / Philadephia area, could the Bucks County Sharks still have played this year?

Also what about the likes of Ashton Bulls, they seem to have always had a surplus of players, wouldn't it be better for the game, to have those second tier guys running around each week as well? I'm sure if there was an opportunity for a Second Grade/Reserve Grade there would be a few clubs who could develop another team with the club.

Anyway something to think about. A 6 team competition with 6 really professional club, and then a second tier competition with 6 clubs, might be better for the development of the game in the States than a 12 team competition where some sides just can't compete and bring down the overall standard.

BTW, I'm not having a go at any of the clubs in the States in this post, I commend everyone's hard work over there, I'm just going a bit on my own experiences, and the fact that some clubs don't have the capacity to take it to the next level, so thinking its better to have them playing at a lower level than not at all.

 

[deluded pom?]

I know what you mean Yak. There are a few teams that would like to play a second team game (for want of another expression) but there are few chances for them to go ahead. the Knights and the 13s played one after their game in NY. I know the Eagles have tried several times to arrange a second team game but to no avail. Teams will sometimes have twenty four or more players suited up to play a match. Whilst I realise that at this time of the year the temperature can hit the 30s+ maybe they could protect the players a bit with 4 quarters rather than two halves and maybe unlimited substitutions from six named subs. I'm sure more players might chance their arm at rugby league if the match they were playing in wasn't for vital league points against the better teams in the AMNRL. Perhaps a system could be used whereby teams that fullfil second team matches get a point or points added to their total on the table as a form of encouragement to extend their player base. Even if it only means playing nines rather than a full thirteen aside game.

 

[jim_57]

Rampart, I commend your efforts to help raise the level of professionalism within not only your club, but across the AMNRL itself. Whilst it would be nice to see all clubs aiming to constantly improve themselves, and take steps towards to being more professional, I think one obstacle you are going to fine, is that whilst some are doing this, or can do this, there will be those who just can't or have no desire to.

As raised by Roopy before, one of the things the AMNRL needs to more towards is having more than one level within the game. Let's be honest, the current AMNRL competition is of quite a good standard, which makes it very hard for team who has never played league before to come in and compete. At the same time, the costs for travelling to Jacksonville could also rule out some new clubs trying their hand.

A good question that needs to be asked within the AMNRL, is if there was a Second Division based purely around that New Jersey / New York / Philadephia area, could the Bucks County Sharks still have played this year?

Also what about the likes of Ashton Bulls, they seem to have always had a surplus of players, wouldn't it be better for the game, to have those second tier guys running around each week as well? I'm sure if there was an opportunity for a Second Grade/Reserve Grade there would be a few clubs who could develop another team with the club.

Anyway something to think about. A 6 team competition with 6 really professional club, and then a second tier competition with 6 clubs, might be better for the development of the game in the States than a 12 team competition where some sides just can't compete and bring down the overall standard.

BTW, I'm not having a go at any of the clubs in the States in this post, I commend everyone's hard work over there, I'm just going a bit on my own experiences, and the fact that some clubs don't have the capacity to take it to the next level, so thinking its better to have them playing at a lower level than not at all.

I really like that idea, I bought it up somewhere a while back, I really think a second division is the next step that needs to be taken by the AMNRL and it's clubs.

AMNRL "Elite Division":
Jacksonville
New York
Boston
Aston
New Haven
Philladelphia
Pittsburgh (If results improve)
Fairfax

Have each team play each other twice, home and away and you have 14 games for each club, then semi's and a final. Ofcourse upcoming clubs could be added as results and professionalism gets better.

Then I would have regional seconds comps if the numbers can be found. Hopefully have all clubs in the "elite division" running seconds teams in their respected regions.