AMNRL merges with union entity

[Evil Homer]

Homer Australian Rugby League is now effectively owned by a self perpetuating private company.

Really? Which one?

Since 1998 the NRL was a partnership like the new USA set up half owned by News Ltd and half owned by the ARL which itself was owned by 2 private companies the QRL and NSWRL so effectively the rest of Australia was excluded from "ownership". Both the QRL and NSWRL are closed nepatistic groups where the public have no say.

The QRL and NSWRL are not 'private companies', they are regional governing bodies for the sport. I cannot believe you have attempted to compare either of these to the company which now appears to own the AMNRL. Surely you aren't being serious here?

Australia RL went from semi pro to where it is today under the NRL partnership so now that the USA game finally has some funding lets hope it succeeds and rather then posting negativity why dont writers work on positive ideas that may help rather then hinder those on the ground making a real effort.

The NRL is a competition. The AMNRL is supposed to be the governing body for the sport in the USA. As I've said, if the AMNRL has decided it is not a governing body for the sport, then it needs to relinquish control of the national team. As it is, we have a complete and utter mess stemming from the fact that the people running the AMNRL appear have no f**king clue what they are doing or about their responsibilities. If you don't understand why having a national governing body owned by a third party company is completely unacceptable then I feel like I am probably wasting my time here.

I call BS on your baseless statement on the USA game 4 of my mates played in the 2 comps last year and both comps had a few challenges but they say that in the main they ran well.

Maybe you can answer my question, what do the AMNRL hope to achieve with this 'funding' when their competition last year consisted of three legitimate teams and a bunch of none-entities added as filler? Surely it would make much more sense for them to actually develop a product worthy of media coverage before exploring those avenues?

 

[docbrown]

The ARLC is a non for profit organisation meaning that after management expenses are deducted and profits are redirected back into the game.

Prior to that during the NRL period the NRL was seemingly a non for profit but in actual effect News Limited had little intent on growing grassroots support - they were only interested in the highest tier, the level that creates immediate profits.

So in AMNRL cede to GP, what will happen? Well it could possibly be like News Ltd's NRL era - focus on the top tier, club games, internationals etc.

Are there enough profits in American rugby league at the moment to get worried about this? Obviously not.

However - any international body - RLIF, ARLC, RFL etc - that runs as a non-for-profit needs to ask themselves, if they give money to Grand Prix by aggreeing to these fixtures - World 9s, Origin, WCC etc - where does that money go?

I actually don't care if the AMNRL decides to handover management to a pro sport management company - it's actually smart from a fiscal standpoint. If Grand Prix do screw over the clubs etc there is an alternative for them - USARL. That will act as a check and balance to ensure that GP do the right thing by the clubs.

But again - the key issue is grassroots development. We want USARL players aspiring to play the game and to be able to play for their nation.

Bring in a RLIF or RLEF appointed indepedent arbiter - one that oversee Tomahawks recruitment (from both leagues) and ensure that money raised from those big international events is directed back into the game itself rather than GP's pockets.

So yes I would actually say it's a good thing for GP to manage events, AMNRL etc - but specifically only if -
a) non for profit
b) an independent arbiter ensure it goes back to grassroots
c) the USARL players can get Tomahawk positions

If those 3 criteria aren't satisfied then NO it's not worth the problems

 

[Lone Ranger]

GPR looks and smells like a pump and dump scheme to me. The AMNRL do not have a domestic comp or anything that resembles a league. The only thing they have is the USA team which uses players from overseas. These guys are perfect for each other.

 

[Evil Homer]

I actually don't care if the AMNRL decides to handover management to a pro sport management company - it's actually smart from a fiscal standpoint. If Grand Prix do screw over the clubs etc there is an alternative for them - USARL. That will act as a check and balance to ensure that GP do the right thing by the clubs.

Agreed. As I've stated repeatedly, I wouldn't have any issue with the AMNRL doing whatever they wanted if they weren't purporting to be the sole national governing body for the sport in the USA. Remove the responsibilities that brings, such as control of the national team and representation at an international level, and then they can be free to deal with as many third-party organizations as they like. I wouldn't even mind if GP were a profit-making organization - as stated, clubs would have a clear alternative if they felt they weren't getting the best deal or were being screwed over in some way. Like everything else they do though, the problems stem from the AMNRL's apparent position as the internationally recognized governing body. Sadly, I think that's pretty much all they have left.

 

[docbrown]

Agreed. As I've stated repeatedly, I wouldn't have any issue with the AMNRL doing whatever they wanted if they weren't purporting to be the sole national governing body for the sport in the USA. Remove the responsibilities that brings, such as control of the national team and representation at an international level, and then they can be free to deal with as many third-party organizations as they like. I wouldn't even mind if GP were a profit-making organization - as stated, clubs would have a clear alternative if they felt they weren't getting the best deal or were being screwed over in some way. Like everything else they do though, the problems stem from the AMNRL's apparent position as the internationally recognized governing body. Sadly, I think that's pretty much all they have left.

Yep I think we're on the same page with this.

I'd say this is the main reason Nui hasn't agreed to USARL Tomahawks representation.

Take that away from AMNRL, what else do they have to entice the clubs to stay in that comp?

It was interesting reading the article in the SMH today - they were listing AMNRL's achievements - a probable WCC, a possible State of Origin.

Probable and possible aren't achievements - they're speculations...

Ignore all that high end stuff - ask what are the goals and timelines for the AMNRL competition etc.

 

[Western_Eel]

Agreed. As I've stated repeatedly, I wouldn't have any issue with the AMNRL doing whatever they wanted if they weren't purporting to be the sole national governing body for the sport in the USA. Remove the responsibilities that brings, such as control of the national team and representation at an international level, and then they can be free to deal with as many third-party organizations as they like. I wouldn't even mind if GP were a profit-making organization - as stated, clubs would have a clear alternative if they felt they weren't getting the best deal or were being screwed over in some way. Like everything else they do though, the problems stem from the AMNRL's apparent position as the internationally recognized governing body. Sadly, I think that's pretty much all they have left.

A the end of the day it doesnt matter because im sure the CEO for the AMNRL will be the same as the new governing body if it was introduced

 

[RedVee]

Yep I think we're on the same page with this.

I'd say this is the main reason Nui hasn't agreed to USARL Tomahawks representation.

Take that away from AMNRL, what else do they have to entice the clubs to stay in that comp?

It was interesting reading the article in the SMH today - they were listing AMNRL's achievements - a probable WCC, a possible State of Origin.

Probable and possible aren't achievements - they're speculations...

Ignore all that high end stuff - ask what are the goals and timelines for the AMNRL competition etc.

Yep, I agree. Happy for GP to organise competitions and the like - but not fine for them to own the national organisation.

The othe achievement seems to be Mr Nui being a guest of the recent RLIF meeting.

 

[druzik]

I think here lies the problem:

1. The "Governing Body" of the sport is called the AMNRL.
2. The "main competition" of that Governing bodies sport is called the AMNRL.

So GPS has bought the rites to what? The governing body or the competition?

In Australia and England and France etc... the competitions are called differently from the Governing body to destinguish things, that is they way these things need to work.

Australia the ARLC runs the NRL, SoO and other competitions
England the RFL runs the ESL, Challenge Cup, Championship and other competitions
France the FFRXIII runs the LER1, LER2, LDC and other competitions
etc... for other nations

The big mucking up of this is that there is no distinction between the governing body and the competition... and this is an issue in the USARL, they refer to their comp the USARL as well. It has the potential for stuffing things up and I have mentioned this to both parties in the past that a clear distinction HAS TO be made... looks like its fallen on deaf ears in both camps.

 

[Rampart66]

I guess I'll throw my opinion in the mix.

I think that this partnership is great for the AMNRL and hopefully can bring the sport of rugby league to more mainstream viewers.

The whole national team aside, I think that if Grand Prix Entertainment can put some money behind the AMNRL and its clubs, rugby league may be able to get a foothold in the states.

The problem with rugby league in the US has never been the game itself or the lack of participation, but the lack of firm financing. It would be nice to move the sport from high school stadiums and municipal parks and into venues that are geared toward spectator sports.

While I've been frustrated with things the AMNRL has done or not done (or promised to do and didn't), this is a huge win for David Nui and the AMNRL. I wish them the best of luck with this partnership and hope to see rugby league on TV and live, in front of large crowds.

 

[druzik]

I guess I'll throw my opinion in the mix.

I think that this partnership is great for the AMNRL and hopefully can bring the sport of rugby league to more mainstream viewers.

The whole national team aside, I think that if Grand Prix Entertainment can put some money behind the AMNRL and its clubs, rugby league may be able to get a foothold in the states.

The problem with rugby league in the US has never been the game itself or the lack of participation, but the lack of firm financing. It would be nice to move the sport from high school stadiums and municipal parks and into venues that are geared toward spectator sports.

While I've been frustrated with things the AMNRL has done or not done (or promised to do and didn't), this is a huge win for David Nui and the AMNRL. I wish them the best of luck with this partnership and hope to see rugby league on TV and live, in front of large crowds.

This is where the issue is at the moment. The crowds are not there. Even for the internationals, much of the crowd is there for the Union games. Now that all looks good, but in the end how many of them actually are that interested in switching from Union to league.

This year will be a litmus test for the AMNRL to see if the poaching of union games before their international with the crowds will translate into crowds at the club games and thus the clubs starting to generate money. Without this all the Star Group and GP financing will come to naught... things actually HAVE to start changing soon, they cannot stagnate any more... its that simple.

As you say it, this is a big win for the AMNRL in that sense, but we don't know how much $$ has now been pumped into the AMNRL or Star group to get the game off the ground. Stadiums are needed, not big ones and not american football ones, but actual Rugby (League) grounds are needed.

 

[Lone Ranger]

Can we not get carried away with this nonsense about the GPR pumping money into the AMNRL. GPR will pay the AMNRL a set fee for each game that is broadcast. It is extremely likely this is ONLY for International events as they have no domestic schedule.

 

[Evil Homer]

I guess I'll throw my opinion in the mix.

I think that this partnership is great for the AMNRL and hopefully can bring the sport of rugby league to more mainstream viewers.

The whole national team aside, I think that if Grand Prix Entertainment can put some money behind the AMNRL and its clubs, rugby league may be able to get a foothold in the states.

The problem with rugby league in the US has never been the game itself or the lack of participation, but the lack of firm financing. It would be nice to move the sport from high school stadiums and municipal parks and into venues that are geared toward spectator sports.

While I've been frustrated with things the AMNRL has done or not done (or promised to do and didn't), this is a huge win for David Nui and the AMNRL. I wish them the best of luck with this partnership and hope to see rugby league on TV and live, in front of large crowds.

I understand why you've posted this, but think about what you are saying, it's completely illogical. All issues of governance and corruption aside, we're talking about a domestic competition with three legitimate clubs. What do you expect them to televise? Why do you expect GP to put money into the game with no end product, and what do you expect the AMNRL to achieve with this money given the fact that, as I say, they have a virtually none-existent and extremely neglected domestic scene? I agree that it would be great for RL to get publicity on a large scale but, put simply, there isn't anything to publicise at the present time, not even in the USARL, who are rightly focused on building a sustainable competition and engaging interest from the local community rather than chasing grandiose deals and self-promotion. It seems quite clear what has happened here - Niu has once again seen the potential to make a quick buck, got dollar signs in his eyes and signed the sport over without consideration for any of the consequences or implications, and almost certainly without consulting any of the supposed stakeholders in his organization. The AMNRL is a joke and does not deserve to be called a governing body, it does not function as one by any definition.

 

[amnrlfan]

Any word yet on the teams that will be participating in the AMNRL this year?

 

[druzik]

Any word yet on the teams that will be participating in the AMNRL this year?

http://www.amnrl.com/American-national-rugby-league-schedule

 

[clarency]

Well it sure looks impressive, but we all know most of those matches won't be played.

It's a shame because if AMNRL and USARL admin worked together then we would all be cheering at this news.

 

[league13]

The way Nui is selecting his National Squad there will most probably be a lot of defections to the USARL after his World Cup squad is announced.

 

[Rampart66]

Let's say that I'm cautiously optimistic.

When Grand Prix Entertainment announced it's plans for rugby 7s and it's partnership with NFL Network, two thoughts immediately came to my mind. First, was that someone was finally going to invest into rugby and possibly as a domestic league. The thought that it was Union was depressing as it could hurt both the AMNRL and USARL if this was to get some exposure. My second thought was wondering how they were going to capitalize on a 7s league when the games last less than 30 minutes.

The agreement with the AMNRL makes me feel better about Grand Prix Entertainment.

I'm giving David Nui and the AMNRL the benefit of the doubt on this one and hoping that something good comes out of this.

Yes, we need to get crowds out to the games, but as Jacksonville has proved, with the right facility, team and management; the fans will come.

The old adage is that you have to spend money to make money and very few of these teams have the money for great facilities, advertising and paying players. Most of whatever a club makes is spent on travel, kits, and field rental. This is the dynamic that has to change. A club could operate comfortably with $75,000 - $100,000 per season. With a better venue, a club can fill more seats, charge for tickets, this in turn motivates businesses to advertise, merchandise sells and clubs open up new sources of revenue. But the teams need that initial jolt of cash.

Is Grand Prix the answer to move rugby league in America? Maybe, but it won't happen overnight.

I'll tell you that the majority of American sports fans don't really care about national teams unless they are successful and have a chance of winning. American sports fans care more about the local teams and the city rivalries (like New York/Boston or Philly/DC).

I can also tell you that the average sports fan doesn't even know that there are two codes of rugby or variations of each.

 

[Evil Homer]

The agreement with the AMNRL makes me feel better about Grand Prix Entertainment.

I'm giving David Nui and the AMNRL the benefit of the doubt on this one and hoping that something good comes out of this.

Yes, we need to get crowds out to the games, but as Jacksonville has proved, with the right facility, team and management; the fans will come.

The old adage is that you have to spend money to make money and very few of these teams have the money for great facilities, advertising and paying players. Most of whatever a club makes is spent on travel, kits, and field rental. This is the dynamic that has to change. A club could operate comfortably with $75,000 - $100,000 per season. With a better venue, a club can fill more seats, charge for tickets, this in turn motivates businesses to advertise, merchandise sells and clubs open up new sources of revenue. But the teams need that initial jolt of cash.

Which teams need that? The three legitimate AMNRL teams? Do you think GP are going to fund a professional league from scratch, or honestly that RL in the USA is in any way capable of sustaining a professional league at the present time? Are you expecting them to unconditionally pump cash into a frankly shambolic organization with no end product in return? Given the current state of the AMNRL and the contempt shown towards their so-called member clubs, do you really think any of this is plausible in any way?

 

[Rampart66]

At this point it's hard to speculate about about what all of this means, but looking at Grand Prix Entertainment and Premier Partnerships, there seem to be some good personnel involved with these organizations. Alan Rothenberg has a great history in sports administration, especially in soccer.

This is from the Grand Prix web site:

Chaired by Rothenberg, Grand Prix advisory board members include Bernstein, Neal Pilson, former president of CBS Sports; Kelly Crabb, Olympic attorney and senior partner of the international law firm of Sheppard & Mullin; Rich Rose, former President of Caesars World Sports; Ray Harmon, RFHarmon Media, former Director of Finance, VP Business Planning, CBS Sports, and Gary Marenzi, former President of MGM Worldwide Television.

Some some pretty beefy advisors.

I don't think that rugby league can be compared with the big four US sports or even MLS for that matter, but I think that it can be compared to the two lacrosse leagues (NLL and MLL). The MLL was able to play in adequate venues and have games televised. Granted, Jake Steinfeld (Body by Jake) and others financed the league, but it has been able to stabilize after a lot of ups and downs. The NLL (the indoor lacrosse league) have survived since the late 80s and have some long established teams and play in front of crowds that would be the envy of any rugby league club.

Look, I'm trying to look at this from an unbiased point of view, and given the history of the AMNRL, I understand the wanting to play devil's advocate. But I don't want to be the guy that rolls my eyes and laughs every time we hear something from the AMNRL. I don't like the way things happened with Star Group, the lack of communications, and the national team debacle, but I'm looking at the big picture and what this game has the potential to be in the US. It has all of the elements that American sports fan will eat up, it's just a matter of time until someone with the means and money comes along and tries to expand it it.

 

[clarency]

Agree with the mentioned earlier, that GP won't be putting any money into rugby league in the US. They are there for internationals and a 7's tournament (which the game really needs).

If USA (AMNRL) don't win, and the public lose interest, GP will leave. Niu's lack of focus on actually developing the game will come back on him here.